Merkel: "Covid-19 has exposed the limits of 'fact-denying populism" - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Europe's nation states, the E.U. & Russia.

Moderator: PoFo Europe Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum, so please post in English only.
#15106270
The pandemic in countries governed by populists as in the US and Brazil or autocrats as in Russia clearly shows that populists aren't capable of managing a real crisis. They thrive by make believe and lies, but as soon as they have to deal with a real crisis, they fail miserably.

Let's drive that message home loud and clear.

Covid-19 has exposed the limits of 'fact-denying populism', Merkel tells European Parliament

Chancellor Angela Merkel presented Germany's priorities for its six-month term at the helm of the EU presidency on Wednesday, urging swift action to shore up economies in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic while underscoring that the crisis had exposed the limits of "fact-denying populism".

The coronavirus pandemic is showing the limits of “fact-denying populism,” German Chancellor Angela Merkel told the European Parliament on Wednesday as she set out her country's plans for its six-month presidency of the European Union.

Germany took over the task of chairing EU meetings on July 1 and faces the challenge of seeking a compromise on a coronavirus recovery fund for the 27-nation bloc as well as the EU's budget for the next seven years as the continent faces up to the task of pulling out of a deep recession.

“The depth of the economic decline demands that we hurry,” Merkel told lawmakers. “We must waste no time - only the weakest would suffer from that. I very much hope that we can reach an agreement this summer. That will require a lot of readiness to compromise from all sides - and from you too."

“We must not be naive: In many member states, opponents of Europe are just waiting to misuse the crisis for their ends,” she said. “We must show them all where the added value of cooperation in the European Union lies. We must show that a return to nationalism means not more, but less control."

Without explicitly naming any countries or politicians, Merkel pointed to cautionary examples elsewhere.

We are seeing at the moment that the pandemic can't be fought with lies and disinformation, and neither can it be with hatred and agitation,” she said.

Fact-denying populism is being shown its limits,” she added to applause. “In a democracy, facts and transparency are needed. That distinguishes Europe, and Germany will stand up for it during its presidency."

Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron in May proposed creating a one-time 500 billion-euro ($563 billion) recovery fund that would be filled through shared EU borrowing. That is a big step for Germany, breaking with its long-standing opposition to any kind of joint borrowing.

The EU’s executive Commission expanded on the proposal, putting forward plans for a 750 billion-euro fund made up mostly of grants. It faces resistance from countries dubbed the “Frugal Four” - Austria, Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden - that oppose grants and are reluctant to give money away without strings attached.

“It is right and important for the regions particularly hard hit by the crisis, and above all the people who live there, to be able to count on our solidarity,” Merkel said Wednesday. “It is in our very own interests - but at the same time, that also means the effort that is necessary for the good of all must not overburden the economically strong member states in a one-sided way.”


#15106280
Why isn't she wearing a mask? :eh:

If I had been making that speech to the European Parliament, I would have definitely worn a mask - a black one, and made heavy mechanical breathing noises while announcing the end of the Republic and the foundation of a new Galactic Empire.... :excited:

#15106287
@ness31, you are completely off topic. The shakes, which she didn't deny, has nothing to do with the pandemic or with populism. Unlike Trump who wastes his speeches for trying to explain away his acrophobia, she doesn't deny anything.

@Potemkin, she does wear a mask, even a black one, but at the speaker's stand, you are several meters away from the next person in front of you and don't need a mask.

Image
#15106292
you are completely off topic. The shakes, which she didn't deny, has nothing to do with the pandemic or with populism. Unlike Trump who wastes his speeches for trying to explain away his acrophobia, she doesn't deny anything.


It’s not off topic to question her credibility and her integrity. She couldn’t deny she had the shakes, it was on camera for all to see. She did however say it was due to dehydration, and I call bullshit on the old Stasi.
#15106294
ness31 wrote:It’s not off topic to question her credibility and her integrity. She couldn’t deny she had the shakes, it was on camera for all to see. She did however say it was due to dehydration, and I call bullshit on the old Stasi.


Do you have evidence to support your interpretation?

That is the point originally made, Trump, Bolsanaro, Johnson use rhetoric to gain support, regardless of whether it is true. This is fine when the fiction you spin has no consequences, however a virus couldn't give a damn about what you claim to be true.

A virus with infect and carry on killing regardless, the only way to stop it is to act against the factual evidence of how the virus infects and kills. Trump can say the virus is going away as often as he likes, Bolsanaro can say brazillians are immune and Johnson can claim the UK response is world leading. Saying these things do nothing to protect the populations of those countries.
#15106297
Atlantis wrote:The pandemic in countries governed by populists as in the US and Brazil or autocrats as in Russia clearly shows that populists aren't capable of managing a real crisis. They thrive by make believe and lies, but as soon as they have to deal with a real crisis, they fail miserably.

This is nonsense. It isn't "populism", it's fact-denying politicians of all stripes. There are populists that are or aren't fact-denying, and there are elitist politicians that are or aren't. You're stereotyping populists in order to discredit them. Merkel didn't do this, she didn't put down "populism" she put down "Fact-denying populism":

“We are seeing at the moment that the pandemic can't be fought with lies and disinformation, and neither can it be with hatred and agitation,” she said.

“Fact-denying populism is being shown its limits,” she added to applause. “In a democracy, facts and transparency are needed. That distinguishes Europe, and Germany will stand up for it during its presidency."
#15106298
@BeesKnee5

Oh this is sublime :lol:

I couldn’t give 2 shits what other politicians have inferred. They’re all politicians and all as untrustworthy as each other. The Stasi included.
Her shaking episodes were witnessed on more than one occasion. So unless she isn’t able to comprehend how you keep yourself from becoming dehydrated, I think she’s being somewhat economic with the truth.
#15106307
ness31 wrote:It’s not off topic to question her credibility and her integrity. She couldn’t deny she had the shakes, it was on camera for all to see. She did however say it was due to dehydration, and I call bullshit on the old Stasi.


You are talking BS. What on Earth has this to do with the Stasi?

Merkel does not deny having had an episode of the shakes.period.

If people want to vote her out off government because of it, they are very welcome to do so. She's still the most popular politicians and would win the next election with a landslide if she were to run again.

@Unthinking Majority, your hair splitting is totally pointless. We are obviously talking about fact-denying populists. Populists by definition are fact denying.

Left-wing populism is marginal and we can ignore it. We are going to reach peak right-wing populism with Trump's election defeat later this year. Things will improve after that and the populists are going into the trash bin of history.
#15106317
Wherever right-wing populists grab power, the pandemic spirals out of control. The US has 4% of the world's population but 25% of the world's Covid cases, more than 3 millions by now. Yesterday, more than 61,000 new cases were recorded in the US.

I wouldn't be surprised if countries ruled by populists account for more than 50% of all cases. The worst affected countries in Europe, North and South America and Asia are the UK, the US, Brazil and India respectively, all ruled by right-wing populists.

#15106331
Atlantis wrote:Wherever right-wing populists grab power, the pandemic spirals out of control. The US has 4% of the world's population but 25% of the world's Covid cases, more than 3 millions by now. Yesterday, more than 61,000 new cases were recorded in the US.

Wrong. You're making an over-generalization. It's anecdotal evidence. Merkel, the anti-populist elitist, seems to want to agree, probably using Trump and the UK as examples. Populism doesn't necessarily mean politicians who ignore data.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... at-canada/

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/populist- ... -1.4456782
Last edited by Unthinking Majority on 09 Jul 2020 19:49, edited 1 time in total.
#15106410
ness31 wrote:, I think she’s being somewhat economic with the truth.


Lets try again,

When it comes to fighting a pandemic what you think is completely irrelevant unless you can
A. Justify it with evidence
B. Use that knowledge to reduce infection rates and death rates.

How many people will be infected, killed or left with medical complications based on the cause of Merkel's shakes?
By ness31
#15106452
BeesKnee5 wrote:Lets try again,

When it comes to fighting a pandemic what you think is completely irrelevant unless you can
A. Justify it with evidence
B. Use that knowledge to reduce infection rates and death rates.

How many people will be infected, killed or left with medical complications based on the cause of Merkel's shakes?


I’m not repeating myself. I’ve said what I had to say. Have a nice days Bees Keees ;)
#15107012
The mainstream populist point wasn't that there absolutely was no threat and it was all a hoax; rather it was that the whole thing was being drastically overblown and hyped up.
I don't think it's fair to say that the populists believed no precautions were warranted whatsoever, though there was a small segment of them who had that feeling.

So this is kind of a straw man.

@wat0n 1. If you have an argument that depends[…]

Election 2020

No, I am saying that a large percentage of the pe[…]

So how deadly is it?

It is not looking good with the virus. They are s[…]

The Wuhan virus—how are we doing?

@Sivad Since you have no argument, have a good[…]