Old School Left Calls For End To Cancel Culture Of The New McCarthyist Left - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15107494
wat0n wrote:
I don't recall ever saying something like this. I'm simply applying the cancel culture against our local cancellers. Don't like it? Too bad.



It's obvious now that you're not even dealing with the subject matter *at all*.

You think this is just some interpersonal *spat* on the street, the equivalent of some he-said-she-said, over the entire Middle East, with no larger history to bother with.

To you it's an abstract math equation, where you just dutifully remove all the 'negative signs' from all numbers so that everything looks neater and cleaner.

Well, as I've said to Julian, psychologizing it isn't enough. Skinster is right -- you should *shut up* while you still can, because you're just digging yourself deeper on a subject that you're not even bothering to address, that of the Palestinian struggle.

Your *negligence* and wanton simple-mindedness is pulling you further rightward, to where you're starting to sound like a *conservative*, criticizing tribalism / identity politics from the *right* side of the political spectrum, to 'negate' the 'negaters' like a fucking know-nothing zombie.
#15107495
skinster wrote:I've already pointed out one side demands equality. Only one side, so far. And anti-Zionist Jews. This should be enough for you to do a little thinking about that. But you're speaking about countries unrelated as if they're some kind of gotcha. But to answer your question, Iran has the second largest population of Jews in the region, after Israel. And Saudi Arabia, I'm not sure if they have any, but they're allies with the Israeli govt. That might make you think too, but I'm not holding out much hope given what I'm seeing already.

Iran, a country led by a bunch of raging anti-semites, has a population of 80 million. They have 12-15,000 Jews, which is 10x less since the 1979 Revolution. The Saudis don't have any Jews besides diplomats because the Wahabi nutbars would murder them in the streets.

Aren't you the same guy who defends the Russian and Chinese governments? Things are starting to become clearer now...

So? I wrote a hit play!

Cats?

And I have an award-winning Ted Talk.

So does everyone on my block. Was it about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Or Cats?

What a childish response. One side is systematically racist while the other is demanding civil rights and basic equality. You didn't learn much at university, by the sounds of it.

LOL. Equality? Most Palestinians would throw every last Jew in the region into the mediterranean, and probably a third or more of them would chain a bowling ball around their necks while they did it. The Palestinians are filled with lots of Netanyahus or much worse, they just don't have the power. Anyways, this is useless because you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

If you think they're so anti-racist, go dress up like an Orthodox Jew and walk down the busy streets of Gaza and see what happens.
#15107497
wat0n is the Bari Weiss of PoFo :D


Unthinking Majority wrote:If you think they're so anti-racist, go dress up like an Orthodox Jew and walk down the busy streets of Gaza and see what happens.


I could try, but how would I get in when the Israeli government doesn't allow Palestinians out of open-air-prison-Gaza or any Jews or gentiles in? You are revealing your cluelessness on this issue.
#15107501
ckaihatsu wrote:It's obvious now that you're not even dealing with the subject matter *at all*.

You think this is just some interpersonal *spat* on the street, the equivalent of some he-said-she-said, over the entire Middle East, with no larger history to bother with.

To you it's an abstract math equation, where you just dutifully remove all the 'negative signs' from all numbers so that everything looks neater and cleaner.

Well, as I've said to Julian, psychologizing it isn't enough. Skinster is right -- you should *shut up* while you still can, because you're just digging yourself deeper on a subject that you're not even bothering to address, that of the Palestinian struggle.

Your *negligence* and wanton simple-mindedness is pulling you further rightward, to where you're starting to sound like a *conservative*, criticizing tribalism / identity politics from the *right* side of the political spectrum, to 'negate' the 'negaters' like a fucking know-nothing zombie.


Yeah, we should shut up because you don't like pushback, huh? It's so fun to see how the cancellers react when using their logic against those they like :lol:

@skinster yes, she also seems to have gotten a taste of her own medicine. I wanna see her suing the NYT though, just for fun. Don't mix me up with her, I haven't really endorsed the firings of Finkelstein or Salaita, simply because ideology (including racist ones) is not grounds for getting fired. I've said this many times already, although they at least were monetarily compensated for their troubles. I want to see if Bari Weiss will get the same kind of compensation too.
#15107506
ckaihatsu wrote:No, you're not getting it -- this isn't about *me*, this is about *you*. Think of it as free good advice.


You mean that one shouldn't piss these people off IRL? I'm not stupid, I'm aware of that. I also think it will eventually collapse under its own weight, having people like Chomsky signing this letter is a warning of what's to come.
#15107507
ckaihatsu wrote:Why aren't you taking your own advice here?

You're not addressing the Palestinian plight *at all*, and you're pretending that the two sides have some kind of 'moral equivalence', which is *not* the case whatsoever:

I'm not writing an essay on the entire conflict here. I know full well Palestinians have been victimized. I'm responding to claims that Palestinians aren't at all racist, which is dumbest shit i've ever heard on these boards. Hitler is laughing.
#15107508
ckaihatsu wrote:
Well, as I've said to Julian, psychologizing it isn't enough. Skinster is right -- you should *shut up* while you still can, because you're just digging yourself deeper on a subject that you're not even bothering to address, that of the Palestinian struggle.



wat0n wrote:
You mean that one shouldn't piss these people off IRL? I'm not stupid, I'm aware of that. I also think it will eventually collapse under its own weight, having people like Chomsky signing this letter is a warning of what's to come.



No, I'm saying that you're in over your head, because you're not dealing with the subject matter. Merely scribbling-together some fatuous retort isn't what this is about.


Unthinking Majority wrote:
I'm not writing an essay on the entire conflict here. I know full well Palestinians have been victimized. I'm responding to claims that Palestinians aren't at all racist, which is dumbest shit i've ever heard on these boards. Hitler is laughing.



Oh -- in that case, here's the thing: 'Cancelling' racist practices isn't racist itself, because there's *inequality* between the two parties. So it's not a *rivalry*, as you're portraying it, like the U.S. versus China, or something like that, it's an *oppressed group* fighting back against their oppression, which you should be able to understand / acknowledge, unlike wat0n's intentional blinkeredness.

In other words, if Palestinians are the *victims*, then who are the *victimizers*?
#15107510
ckaihatsu wrote:No, I'm saying that you're in over your head, because you're not dealing with the subject matter. Merely scribbling-together some fatuous retort isn't what this is about.


The subject matter ITT being the letter, you mean? I think my exercise quite clearly showed that even those who believe cancelling is ethical don't like it when the logic is applied against themselves.

Have you considered that maybe others may not regard themselves as racist (regardless of what those who see themselves as victims say about them) and that getting fired as a result will inevitably lead to a shilling in speech at the beginning and a reactionary response later?
#15107513
wat0n wrote:
The subject matter ITT



'ITT' -- what *is* this, some kind of cognitive *glitch*?


wat0n wrote:
being the letter, you mean? I think my exercise quite clearly showed that even those who believe cancelling is ethical don't like it when the logic is applied against themselves.



Yeah, again, this isn't a math equation, and the two sides aren't equivalent in power or value.


wat0n wrote:
Have you considered that maybe others may not regard themselves as racist (regardless of what those who see themselves as victims say about them) and that getting fired as a result will inevitably lead to a shilling in speech at the beginning and a reactionary response later?



Racism requires *power*, which *critics* (like Salaita and Finkelstein) *don't* have. They're merely using *words*, while it was the *institution* of the university that *fired* them for their criticism of Israel, hence 'institutional racism' in one direction, the direction of use of power to *oppress*.
#15107514
ckaihatsu wrote:'ITT' -- what *is* this, some kind of cognitive *glitch*?


"In This Thread"

ckaihatsu wrote:Yeah, again, this isn't a math equation, and the two sides aren't equivalent in power or value.


To you, perhaps. Nowadays everyone loves to claim victim status, and everyone values their very own opinion highly.

ckaihatsu wrote:Racism requires *power*, which *critics* (like Salaita and Finkelstein) *don't* have. They're merely using *words*, while it was the *institution* of the university that *fired* them for their criticism of Israel, hence 'institutional racism' in one direction, the direction of use of power to *oppress*.


Neither do people who have been cancelled for the most part.

The two ideas above point towards a much more reactionary response sooner or later. Arguably the cancellers are also a reaction to what they regard as oppression, and not so arguably they see themselves as that. But this also points towards conflict.
#15107516
wat0n wrote:
"In This Thread"



To you, perhaps. Nowadays everyone loves to claim victim status, and everyone values their very own opinion highly.



Neither do people who have been cancelled for the most part.

The two ideas above point towards a much more reactionary response sooner or later. Arguably the cancellers are also a reaction to what they regard as oppression, and not so arguably they see themselves as that. But this also points towards conflict.



So are you saying that oppression *doesn't exist*?

That *power* doesn't exist?

That we're all basically, more-or-less on a *blank slate*, here in the present, and that past history *has no impact* on the present?

I think critiques of power are certainly legitimate, since they're reality-based, and they aim to turn a *one-sided conflict* (oppression), into a *two-sided conflict*, which is rebellion and revolution.
#15107517
ckaihatsu wrote:So are you saying that oppression *doesn't exist*?

That *power* doesn't exist?

That we're all basically, more-or-less on a *blank slate*, here in the present, and that past history *has no impact* on the present?

I think critiques of power are certainly legitimate, since they're reality-based, and they aim to turn a *one-sided conflict* (oppression), into a *two-sided conflict*, which is rebellion and revolution.


The problem is that people need not agree on who's the oppressor and who's the victim. Just consider right-wing victimhood (which is just as bad as the left-wing one). Are the victims under this narrative the same?
#15107518
wat0n wrote:Yeah, we should shut up because you don't like pushback, huh? It's so fun to see how the cancellers react when using their logic against those they like :lol:


I'm not sure what you're saying here. How did you pushback against my logic?

@skinster yes, she also seems to have gotten a taste of her own medicine. I wanna see her suing the NYT though, just for fun.


Perhaps the problem is that you don't pay attention to the topic properly. Bari Weiss didn't get a taste of her own medicine, she quit her job.

Don't mix me up with her, I haven't really endorsed the firings of Finkelstein or Salaita, simply because ideology (including racist ones) is not grounds for getting fired.


The issue is that you keep stating these professors were fired for racism because according to you they're racists or neonazis, but you refuse to prove what you're claiming despite repeating it over and again, boring the fuck out of pretty much everyone that isn't you. The facts are that the professors weren't fired for racism, they were fired for speaking out against anti-Palestinian racism.

I've said this many times already, although they at least were monetarily compensated for their troubles. I want to see if Bari Weiss will get the same kind of compensation too.


Their troubles? They lost their teaching careers.

If you're against cancel culture like you claim, you'd be defending these two.

As for Bari Weiss, she'll be compensated, but not from the NYT. She's obviously flocking somewhere further to the right than the NYT.

#15107519
skinster wrote:I'm not sure what you're saying here. How did you pushback against my logic?


I think your reaction speaks for itself.

skinster wrote:Perhaps the problem is that you don't pay attention to the topic properly. Bari Weiss didn't get a taste of her own medicine, she quit her job.


Have you read her letter?

skinster wrote:The issue is that you keep stating these professors were fired for racism because according to you they're racists or neonazis, but you refuse to prove what you're claiming despite repeating it over and again, boring the fuck out of pretty much everyone that isn't you. The facts are that the professors weren't fired for racism, they were fired for speaking out against anti-Palestinian racism.


Cancellers also claim that those who were cancelled are racists, fascists, etc. Why should their claims be taken at face value but not those by those who wanted to fire Salaita or Finkelstein?

skinster wrote:Their troubles? They lost their teaching careers.

If you're against cancel culture like you claim, you'd be defending these two.

As for Bari Weiss, she'll be compensated, but not from the NYT. She's obviously flocking somewhere further to the right than the NYT.



Others have also lost their careers as a result of the cancel culture, just see the case of the UMass Nursing Dean who got fired I mentioned above.

Finkelstein and Salaita also managed to find new jobs, and got compensated by their old employers. I wonder if Bari Weiss will able to be compensated by the NYT.
#15107520
wat0n wrote:
The problem is that people need not agree on who's the oppressor and who's the victim. Just consider right-wing victimhood (which is just as bad as the left-wing one). Are the victims under this narrative the same?



And now you think that all of this is somehow *mysterious* and ambiguous.

Let's get a reality check:



Israelis and Palestinians Killed

September 29, 2000 - Present

Image

Chart showing that 6 times more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis.
1,270 Israelis and at least 10,001 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)



https://ifamericansknew.org/
#15107522
ckaihatsu wrote:And now you think that all of this is somehow *mysterious* and ambiguous.

Let's get a reality check:


And yet even in that case, people from both sides will disagree on who the victims are regardless of your feelings on the matter. If you will chill speech based on that, then you will get a reactionary response sooner or later.
#15107526
wat0n wrote:
And yet even in that case, people from both sides will disagree on who the victims are regardless of your feelings on the matter. If you will chill speech based on that, then you will get a reactionary response sooner or later.



Let's call it 'amplification of the oppressed voice'. Let your logistical imagination run wild.

Based on that previously cited *body count*, who do you think the victims are?
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