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User avatar
By XogGyux
#15110967
wat0n wrote:I agree, he's been bent on destroying American institutions throughout his administration. But if he did try to postpone the elections, he'd still be forced out under the Constitution.

I do believe though it's overall better to deal with the current woke Democrats who will start eating each other a year or so into Biden's administration (on top of attempting further destruction of American institutions of their own) than to reward Trump for his behavior.


Honestly, I think the democratic party nomination of Biden would be the equivalent of democrats throwing a bone, a truce to republicans. They are essentially saying. Here, this is an out from Trump and you don't have to risk losing presidency for 8 years because this candidate is weak/bland/old enough that unless something incredible happens, he is unlikely that he will be a solid candidate in 4 years. Lets compromise on this guy and in 4 years we can have a real match after you guys regroup.

Let's face it, Biden will be chump for progressives and republicans will have plenty of perils and gaffes through 4 years to run against him. Conservatives already got 2 judges and an apparent majority of the supreme court not to mention a lot of lower court appointments. If they keep pushing their luck we might end up in a pretty bad situation.

Anyhow, just a thought.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15110969
wat0n wrote:I agree, he's been bent on destroying American institutions throughout his administration. But if he did try to postpone the elections, he'd still be forced out under the Constitution.

I do believe though it's overall better to deal with the current woke Democrats who will start eating each other a year or so into Biden's administration (on top of attempting further destruction of American institutions of their own) than to reward Trump for his behavior.


The wokeness virtue signaling machine of the Dem Party may be preferable to four years of rioting and looting if Trump wins.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15110971
Julian658 wrote:The wokeness virtue signaling machine of the Dem Party may be preferable to four years of rioting and looting if Trump wins.

May? You are suggesting that 4 years of rioting (assuming your assumption is correct) also may not be a deal-breaker? :lol:
By wat0n
#15110981
Julian658 wrote:The wokeness virtue signaling machine of the Dem Party may be preferable to four years of rioting and looting if Trump wins.


I actually don't think Biden's administration will be devoid of rioting, particularly since they did not spare Democratic mayors of them.

At some point, the more extreme wings of the Democrats will start making demands that the moderate majority of the party (let's not forget Biden's their guy) will refuse to concede (let alone Republicans). My bet is a tax hike in the middle class, which is the only way they can find their program in the long run.

And with this, the apparent implosion of the Democrats will become clearer and the extremists will (likely) be purged. Voting Biden will start a similar process within the GOP, which is just as necessary.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15110989
XogGyux wrote:May? You are suggesting that 4 years of rioting (assuming your assumption is correct) also may not be a deal-breaker? :lol:

When Trump won in 2016 the SJWs went nuts and there were protests, however, I don't recall looting, burning buildings down, and the hysteria of 2020. Trump has ignited the woke people in the same manner group identity politics ignited Trump. The Dems should win this election.

The Dems prayed for an economic crash and they got it. ON top of that they got Covid 19. All the planets and stars are aligned for the Dems. Another grabbing pussy story a week before the election would be nice, but it is not needed. Nevertheless, the Dems can still mess this up by allowing Biden to debate Trump or by selecting a super woke VP. It will be fascinating to watch.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15110990
wat0n wrote:I actually don't think Biden's administration will be devoid of rioting, particularly since they did not spare Democratic mayors of them.


You have a point, police brutality has been worse in cities with an all black Dem government and often with a black chief of police. Dem run cities are modern day plantations.

At some point, the more extreme wings of the Democrats will start making demands that the moderate majority of the party (let's not forget Biden's their guy) will refuse to concede (let alone Republicans). My bet is a tax hike in the middle class, which is the only way they can find their program in the long run.

And with this, the apparent implosion of the Democrats will become clearer and the extremists will (likely) be purged. Voting Biden will start a similar process within the GOP, which is just as necessary.


Both the extreme left and the extreme right can be quite dangerous. However, I have greater fear for the extreme left. ON the extreme right everybody agrees that white nationalism is not to be tolerated or accepted. It is a no-go zone. Meanwhile on the extreme left there is no go zone. The more far left the greater the virtue and approval by the masses. Many now justify the looting as righteous.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15110991
Julian658 wrote:When Trump won in 2016 the SJWs went nuts and there were protests, however, I don't recall looting, burning buildings down, and the hysteria of 2020. Trump has ignited the woke people in the same manner group identity politics ignited Trump. The Dems should win this election.

The Dems prayed for an economic crash and they got it. ON top of that they got Covid 19. All the planets and stars are aligned for the Dems. Another grabbing pussy story a week before the election would be nice, but it is not needed. Nevertheless, the Dems can still mess this up by allowing Biden to debate Trump or by selecting a super woke VP. It will be fascinating to watch.

No sir. This logic is stupid and although i don't doubt that there are a couple of stupid people out there that subscribes to it, after all, this country has 300million, a handful of them are going to be stupid :lol: , most people don't behave that way.
I don't wish to lose 100k in my 401(k) just out of spite because I want to see this guy get out. I don't wish that we have hundreds of thousands of deads to COVID just so that he loses the election. I don't wish that he starts a trade war or an actual war just to make him unpopular. I didn't like him because I thought he would do those things... and here we are him doing many of those things and worse.
Your logic is equivalent to a couple that disagrees on the right electrician to fix their house, and after voting they settle on Jorge the electrician, yet the husband is secretly angry that the wife got away with her choice of the electrician so he is secretly hoping that the house burns... This is stupid.
I am not hoping that the house burns, what I am hoping is that you realize that it is catching fire and that you help put it out. As it happens, the country is actually catching fire... how is that for an analogy :lol: Booya, I want my 100 karma points.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15110992
My bet is a tax hike in the middle class, which is the only way they can find their program in the long run.


Why is this? Why did you pick the middle class? Why not the wealthy?

An also explain this to me. Why do you want Democrats to "fund their program"? Is it because you hold them to a far higher standard than you do the Republicans that have been spending more than any peacetime administration not involved in a major war.?

Republicans are very smart. They claim to be all about fiscal responsibility yet they cut taxes and spend like drunken sailors. Then every few years they lose power and spend 8 years whining about how the democrats want to raise taxes and refuse to balance the budget.
Clearly the Republican agenda has come down to simply selling bullshit to people who are not educated enough or not intelligent enough to understand just how deeply they are getting stroked.

I think Biden is smart enough not to fall into this trap. If by some miracle Biden wins and if by an even greater miracle he gets the Senate also what if he just enacts what he wants and then lets the chips fall where they may? He would leave a deeply divided and damaged Republican party to sell an austerity agenda. That is never a winning one with the American people.

If the democrats can pass universal health care they will be in power for a long time. Imagine telling Americans who do not have to lay out hundreds of dollars each month to an insurance company that they have to start doing it again. And universal health care, even if it includes the most outrageous of Cadillac features, would be highly stimulative to the economy. Even if we provide the most comprehensive coverage in the world, it would be far less expensive than what we have. And that money would be spent buying stuff and stoking out consumer economy.

And I have said it one and will say it many more times before the election...THERE IS NO VIABLE FAR LEFT IN THE US AND CERTAINLY NOT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. The leftish stuff you are seeing now is nothing more than moderates so utterly angered by the Trump administration that they are lashing out at any symbol of authority.

Now I will get people really pissed off. A great many of the white folks who are participating in the BLM movement are lashing out at authority symbols in general. And this is stoked by hatred for an autocrat in the Whitehouse.

We have seen nothing yet. We are out 100 days and the republicans are not even trying to hide their efforts to steal the election. They will likely succeed.

@Julian658 The Dems prayed for an economic crash and they got it.


Garbage. It doesn't even make sense. You are a curious man Julian. You just seem to talk and hope you sound smart every once in a while. You post the most outrageous stuff and then accuse others of racism. Russian troll? I think not. A Russian troll would be more sophisticated.

Please stop using the term woke. You don't understand it and you are stuck on it.
By wat0n
#15111000
Drlee wrote:Why is this? Why did you pick the middle class? Why not the wealthy?


Because the wealthy are simply not wealthy enough to pay for the kind of stuff they are proposing (Medicare for All, the Green New Deal, etc).

CNN - far from a Trumpist news media - also ran the numbers before the lockdowns began. You can read it below:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/26/politics ... index.html

Keep in mind that candidates have every incentive to underestimate the costs of their programs and overestimate the revenue they expect to get. Even then, the progressive agenda ends in a deficit on top of the pre-pandemic one.

Drlee wrote:An also explain this to me. Why do you want Democrats to "fund their program"? Is it because you hold them to a far higher standard than you do the Republicans that have been spending more than any peacetime administration not involved in a major war.?


What makes you believe I think Trump's $1 trillion deficit is any good? He's been irresponsible just like all populists are.

Drlee wrote:Republicans are very smart. They claim to be all about fiscal responsibility yet they cut taxes and spend like drunken sailors. Then every few years they lose power and spend 8 years whining about how the democrats want to raise taxes and refuse to balance the budget.
Clearly the Republican agenda has come down to simply selling bullshit to people who are not educated enough or not intelligent enough to understand just how deeply they are getting stroked.

I think Biden is smart enough not to fall into this trap. If by some miracle Biden wins and if by an even greater miracle he gets the Senate also what if he just enacts what he wants and then lets the chips fall where they may? He would leave a deeply divided and damaged Republican party to sell an austerity agenda. That is never a winning one with the American people.


Indeed, the Republican "starve the beast" kind of agenda has also been rather irresponsible on its own right, but I hope we can both agree that Trump has actually taken to a much, much worse level. And yes, no one likes spending cuts, which is why there is such a strong incentive to leave them for a future administration.

Drlee wrote:If the democrats can pass universal health care they will be in power for a long time. Imagine telling Americans who do not have to lay out hundreds of dollars each month to an insurance company that they have to start doing it again. And universal health care, even if it includes the most outrageous of Cadillac features, would be highly stimulative to the economy. Even if we provide the most comprehensive coverage in the world, it would be far less expensive than what we have. And that money would be spent buying stuff and stoking out consumer economy.


I find it hard to predict what would happen with universal healthcare. It's not clear if costs would really go down, if it would affect medical R&D investment, if it would affect patient behavior, etc. Part of the problem is that it's not all that clear why the hell is healthcare so absurdly expensive in the US.

Drlee wrote:And I have said it one and will say it many more times before the election...THERE IS NO VIABLE FAR LEFT IN THE US AND CERTAINLY NOT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. The leftish stuff you are seeing now is nothing more than moderates so utterly angered by the Trump administration that they are lashing out at any symbol of authority.

Now I will get people really pissed off. A great many of the white folks who are participating in the BLM movement are lashing out at authority symbols in general. And this is stoked by hatred for an autocrat in the Whitehouse.

We have seen nothing yet. We are out 100 days and the republicans are not even trying to hide their efforts to steal the election. They will likely succeed.


That used to be true, but that's not the case anymore. Partly because the American far left did move a bit to the left compared to where it used to be, both in terms of concrete policies and the discourse (I don't think many identified as being a "socialist" within the Democrat Party 20 years ago), but more importantly because the rest of the world's far left has taken up American-style far left identity politics. Class warfare stopped being cool after the failure of communism, so they just decided to copy American identity politics instead.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15111002
Part of the problem is that it's not all that clear why the hell is healthcare so absurdly expensive in the US.


It is quite clear why it is so expensive. Not difficult at all. Start another thread and I will explain it. (I am not being sarcastic.)
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15111008
wat0n wrote:Because the wealthy are simply not wealthy enough to pay for the kind of stuff they are proposing (Medicare for All, the Green New Deal, etc).

CNN - far from a Trumpist news media - also ran the numbers before the lockdowns began. You can read it below:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/26/politics ... index.html

Keep in mind that candidates have every incentive to underestimate the costs of their programs and overestimate the revenue they expect to get. Even then, the progressive agenda ends in a deficit on top of the pre-pandemic one.

This is simply not true. Universal healthcare, for instance, is one of those things that Republicans like to use for fearmongering.
You wan't to know the dirty little secret... we have already "universal healthcare" of sorts, in fact we have had it for decades. If you have no insurance, you get into an accident and end up in the ICU... doctors don't throw you away from the hospital, you get treated even if your care cost 3m. Who pays for that? You'll get a bill alright, but chances are that if you were not carrying health insurance you won't be paying 3M USD. You might get thrown to courts and you might end up in bankrupsy paying a tiny percentage of the whole bill while you are bankrupt but who pays for the rest? Well, that is more complicated but the answer is a combination of government and a portion might end up being paid by private health insurance (when hospital charges $3000 for an MRI that really cost a couple hundred).
The problem with this system is that you lose on a lot, and I mean A LOT, of preventative medicine that you could address early on and not only improve quality of life for those patients but you could save real $$, money that could easily fund most if not all of the universal care.
I put this example on another thread. A patient with ESRD almost always end up getting medicare/medicaid and disability regardless of age. Just the dialysis for this patient would cost 50-70k per year that they are alive, but dialysis is not the only cost, to that add disability benefits? another 20-30k? to that add hospitalizations due to complications (these patients are sick, they get their fistulas infected/clotted, they get bloodstream infections, pneumonias, bleeding, electrolyte abnormalities) So add a few thousand dollars per hospitalizations as well. Surgical procedures? (e.i fistula creation, insertion of tunneled dialysis catheters, amputation of extremities, and many more). By the time you compile the expenses you end up with a number that is in the multiple of hundreds of thousands of dollars and in a few instances you could very well be talking about millions of dollars in costs per year. What are the 2 most common cases of ESRD? Well almost 2/3rd of cases occur due to Diabetes and Hypertension. Hypertension is super cheap to control, the vast majority of BP medication cost less than 100USD/year. Diabetes could be very cheap but it could also be a bit more expensive if the patient requires more sophisticated medications and/or insulin because their diabetes is hard to control, but in any case it is not going to be more than a few thousand dollars per year AT MOST, simpler cases could be similar to high blood pressure and cost hundreds and not thousands.
On average, the goverment could easily cover this cost for hundreds if not thousands of patients and just preventing one of those to progress to ESRD would pay for the whole program cohort, including medical consults.
This is just one simple example, you could do the same analysis for heart disease (the leading cause of death) and stroke.
Furthermore, it is not like there are not examples of countries to show this working. We see it working in most other civilized countries to various degrees of success and this idea that "we cannot afford it" is nonsense.
Insurance companies won't like it. Probably doctors won't be a fan either. The docs would likely need the same sort of liability protection that other countries offer and/or loan student aid given that in this country a doc might end up with half a million dollars in student loans while in many of the other countries their education is subsidized and/or free. The quality of life of a doc that makes less $$ but has no student debt, doesn't have to pay expensive liability insurance, is not crazy overworked with 20+ daily patient panels, etc has been shown to be similar between countries. As for the insurance companies... well they can go suck a dick, they have been leeching on people for decades.

Anyhow, the US is in no imminent danger of getting "medicare for all" anytime soon. Most likely even if a "woke" president such as Bernie were elected, he/she might start with this plan of "medicare for all" in negotiations, and with any luck we get something like "medicare for more" or some Obamacare-like expansion or something like that.

Health insurance is tied to your work is ridiculous. When I left residency, since my contract did not start for a month I lost health insurance for 1 month. I looked into paying it myself... good lord it was $700 USD.... and the plan was crappy to begin with (since I am young I had a high deductible crappy insurance) I ended up just going that month without insurance, which is obviously a risk for me (not much because I am young and other than a bit fat nothing else, but a risk nonetheless, I could have gotten in a car accident or something). The problem is... if young people like me don't pay for the insurance to help subsidize the rest of the "sicker patients" that do use the insurance more... then you end up with companies that keep increasing their premium (or in previous times flat out declining to insure "sick people" AKA pre-existing conditions) that is why the "Obamacare mandate" as to encourage young people like me to buy into the insurance and prevent the crazy runaway effect of more and more "healthy" people not buying insurance. It is a crude solution but a necessary one.

As for Green New Deal. People like to play the armaggedon "we gonna go bankrupt" kind of shit but this is also nonsense. What is green? Let's see, electric cars maybe? Tesla model S has a profit margin of 25% as compared to the traditional luxury (gasoline/diesel) companies like mercedez/bmw whose profit margin look more like 10%... or what about solar panels/winds/hydroelectric that in many cases end up being cheaper than oil with the added benefit that we don't pollute our lakes/rivers/beaches that could wreak havoc on our tourism/food industries. The fact is the rest of the world is embracing this... even china has built CO2 capturing plants and devices/plants that clean other pollutants (smog) from the air. Forget about having a pretty healthy earth, if you want our products to compete in a market that is embracing those "clean technologies" you need our country to start shifting our production.
I am a pragmatic even if a Tesla were to generate the exact same amount of CO2 over its lifetime as the BMW... if hippies in Sweeden perceive that they generate less and prefer to buy the tesla... I sure hope it is an American company rather than a german one that gets the sale.
Same thing with solar panels... if the germans are willing to pay for American solar panels/technology even if coal is cheaper who am I to opose :lol: ... Now, if we are not competitive because we have a government that constantly talking nonsense and fighting amongst themselves meanwhile the rest of the world's governments are quitely subsidizing and promoting their "green companies" we will lose any sort of competitive advantage.
Green energy is an opportunity to create new technologies that we hold patents and sell. Green energy is an opportunity to create high paying jobs. The environmental perks are just that, bonus :lol:
User avatar
By Julian658
#15111010
XogGyux wrote:No sir. This logic is stupid and although i don't doubt that there are a couple of stupid people out there that subscribes to it, after all, this country has 300million, a handful of them are going to be stupid :lol: , most people don't behave that way.
I don't wish to lose 100k in my 401(k) just out of spite because I want to see this guy get out. I don't wish that we have hundreds of thousands of deads to COVID just so that he loses the election. I don't wish that he starts a trade war or an actual war just to make him unpopular. I didn't like him because I thought he would do those things... and here we are him doing many of those things and worse.
Your logic is equivalent to a couple that disagrees on the right electrician to fix their house, and after voting they settle on Jorge the electrician, yet the husband is secretly angry that the wife got away with her choice of the electrician so he is secretly hoping that the house burns... This is stupid.
I am not hoping that the house burns, what I am hoping is that you realize that it is catching fire and that you help put it out. As it happens, the country is actually catching fire... how is that for an analogy :lol: Booya, I want my 100 karma points.


You are a bit naive and obviously not that woke.
For some on the extreme left a booming economy is not important at all. They are looking for something else. Therefore, they would love chaos and an economic crash to push their agenda. Watch the video! You only have to watch for a few seconds, no worries.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15111011
Drlee wrote:Why is this? Why did you pick the middle class? Why not the wealthy?

An also explain this to me. Why do you want Democrats to "fund their program"? Is it because you hold them to a far higher standard than you do the Republicans that have been spending more than any peacetime administration not involved in a major war.?

Republicans are very smart. They claim to be all about fiscal responsibility yet they cut taxes and spend like drunken sailors. Then every few years they lose power and spend 8 years whining about how the democrats want to raise taxes and refuse to balance the budget.
Clearly the Republican agenda has come down to simply selling bullshit to people who are not educated enough or not intelligent enough to understand just how deeply they are getting stroked.

I think Biden is smart enough not to fall into this trap. If by some miracle Biden wins and if by an even greater miracle he gets the Senate also what if he just enacts what he wants and then lets the chips fall where they may? He would leave a deeply divided and damaged Republican party to sell an austerity agenda. That is never a winning one with the American people.

If the democrats can pass universal health care they will be in power for a long time. Imagine telling Americans who do not have to lay out hundreds of dollars each month to an insurance company that they have to start doing it again. And universal health care, even if it includes the most outrageous of Cadillac features, would be highly stimulative to the economy. Even if we provide the most comprehensive coverage in the world, it would be far less expensive than what we have. And that money would be spent buying stuff and stoking out consumer economy.

And I have said it one and will say it many more times before the election...THERE IS NO VIABLE FAR LEFT IN THE US AND CERTAINLY NOT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. The leftish stuff you are seeing now is nothing more than moderates so utterly angered by the Trump administration that they are lashing out at any symbol of authority.

Now I will get people really pissed off. A great many of the white folks who are participating in the BLM movement are lashing out at authority symbols in general. And this is stoked by hatred for an autocrat in the Whitehouse.

We have seen nothing yet. We are out 100 days and the republicans are not even trying to hide their efforts to steal the election. They will likely succeed.



Garbage. It doesn't even make sense. You are a curious man Julian. You just seem to talk and hope you sound smart every once in a while. You post the most outrageous stuff and then accuse others of racism. Russian troll? I think not. A Russian troll would be more sophisticated.

Please stop using the term woke. You don't understand it and you are stuck on it.

See above.
That was a very unintelligent post full of acrimony.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15111014
Julian658 wrote:You are a bit naive and obviously not that woke.
For some on the extreme left a booming economy is not important at all. They are looking for something else. Therefore, they would love chaos and an economic crash to push their agenda. Watch the video! You only have to watch for a few seconds, no worries.

Naive? First of all what people say and what they actually want are 2 different things. Especially if there is a motivator for clicks or for being controversial (which almost always translates into more views, more people talking about your shows, etc) so I take with a grain of salt what he says. I like him, he is fairly pragmatic and not to cuckoo crazy but that does not necessarily mean I will take him at his word.
Second... even if he actually means it, I do think the vast majority of people don't think that way. Even those that hate trump and there are many of those that do... would not put their job on the line, their saving on the line, the value of their home on the line, the food of their family and the healthcare of their family on the line to see that happens. A millionaire that works in a TV show who has job security because he can film from the patio of his home is not representative of the average American people.
By Patrickov
#15111019
Julian658 wrote:The irony is that to assume all Republicans are racist is bigotry to the max. You are judging people because they belong to a group.


Sometimes it is not easy to distinguish statement on statistical facts from personal opinion.

What I see from Member POD's reply, we can safely say that "every Republican he has observed is racist", but he probably hadn't quantized it, so he instead challenge you to name a Republican who's not racist.

@Pants-of-dog I don't know many, but I am interested to know how racist John McCain and Mitt Romney are.
User avatar
By Hindsite
#15111027
Drlee wrote:Why is this? Why did you pick the middle class? Why not the wealthy?

President Trump has said he wanted the next tax cut to be for the middle class. However, Mitch McConnell does not seem too thrilled with the idea.

Drlee wrote:Why do you want Democrats to "fund their program"?

Because it makes common sense.

Drlee wrote:Republicans are very smart. They claim to be all about fiscal responsibility yet they cut taxes and spend like drunken sailors. Then every few years they lose power and spend 8 years whining about how the democrats want to raise taxes and refuse to balance the budget.

That is because most Republicans want lower taxes and realize that higher taxes hurts economic growth. But since the Democrats seem to always cut defense in order to spend on nonessential programs, the Republicans are always stuck with spending more as a compromise with the Democrats in order to get our defense back up to speed.

Drlee wrote:I think Biden is smart enough not to fall into this trap.

Biden doesn't even know where he is half the time.

Drlee wrote:If the democrats can pass universal health care they will be in power for a long time. Imagine telling Americans who do not have to lay out hundreds of dollars each month to an insurance company that they have to start doing it again.

That may be good for the poor people who live off of welfare and other free handouts. However, the rest of the people will be paying a lot more in taxes to cover this universal health care.

Drlee wrote:And universal health care, even if it includes the most outrageous of Cadillac features, would be highly stimulative to the economy. Even if we provide the most comprehensive coverage in the world, it would be far less expensive than what we have. And that money would be spent buying stuff and stoking out consumer economy.

I don't believe it, especially if the Democrats also destroy our oil and coal energy businesses with the Green New Deal.

Drlee wrote:And I have said it one and will say it many more times before the election...THERE IS NO VIABLE FAR LEFT IN THE US AND CERTAINLY NOT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. The leftish stuff you are seeing now is nothing more than moderates so utterly angered by the Trump administration that they are lashing out at any symbol of authority.

You have your head in the sand.
User avatar
By Hindsite
#15111033
XogGyux wrote:No. You have sand inside your head. Only sand.

At least there is something inside my head. That is more than I can say for your no brain empty head. :lol:
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15111039
Hindsite wrote:At least there is something inside my head. That is more than I can say for your no brain empty head. :lol:

Your erroneous perception is understandable given the poor functioning of the sand brain.
User avatar
By Hindsite
#15111040
XogGyux wrote:Your erroneous perception is understandable given the poor functioning of the sand brain.

Since all we have left are insults, perhaps it is best that we end by agreeing to disagree. :lol:
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