Americans Fault China for COVID-19, Poll Says - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15110993
Godstud wrote:That was the part about "moral ambiguities" that I was talking about.

Many Western countries are quick to throw stones at China about how they handle internal problems, and I agree with most of them, as they pertain to human rights. I cannot, however, agree that while they condemn human rights violations by China, they engage in wars, exploitation, and state sponsored terrorist.

Right now would be a very bad time to criticize China for how it handles its protests, as the USA engages in similar tactics, to handle its own problems.

As for enemy? No. They aren't an enemy any more than Iran, Syria, or Russia is an enemy, although Russia did put those bounties on American servicemen, which are quickly forgotten...

For a country to be an enemy, you need to have animosity aimed at you, and I fail to see China's animosity to the USA even comes close to that of Russia, which is seen, by some, as some sort of ally.


Two wrong don't make a right. US has issues but it is nowhere on the scale of China. You can't compare Trump whining about the media and wanting to silence them by his speeches to Chinese government sponsored firewalls and general absence of free speech. Sames goes for human rights. You can't compare Trump sending the national guard to patrol the streets to China actually sending in troops to round up and arrest people or silence Hong Kong. While they might look similar, the severity is just on two different sides of the spectrum. US has political prisoners but it is really a handful of people like Snowden or Assange etc while there are literally hundreds of thousands if not millions in jail in China for having "wrong" opinions.

As for animosity, there is anomosity against the West by both Chinese governments and Chinese people. Propaganda has its intended effect of sorts. China is in the "everyone around us is an enemy" phase. Kinda like Turkey or Russia. Mostly due to Covid and the economy going to shit in the last couple of years.
#15111007
Patrickov wrote:Then I wonder why their supporters seem to endorse Pelosi's narrative, as seen in a lot of PoFo members. Do they want to take power themselves?

They hate Trump so much that they will endorse almost any narrative that oppose Trump. It is the "orange man bad" Trump Derangement Syndrome at work.
#15111013
Hindsite wrote:They hate Trump so much that they will endorse almost any narrative that oppose Trump. It is the "orange man bad" Trump Derangement Syndrome at work.


If everything Trump does is against their interest I wouldn't blame them, just like how we feel towards the Chinese Government because what they do are largely against our interests.

A better proof is to find out something that Trump has done is in their interest, and also in a manner acceptable to them (best with examples that a Democrat president having done exactly the same and publicly endorsed), yet they still criticise Trump for it.
#15111017
Godstud wrote:I cannot, however, agree that while they condemn human rights violations by China, they engage in wars, exploitation, and state sponsored terrorist.


This one is debatable to me.

First, I would argue what is meant by the West engaging in "war / exploitation / state sponsored terrorism", and whether (or how) they have been using this in China and / or Hong Kong.

Second, this does not explain why many Chinese, including some officials, consider the West being better by sending their offsprings there, to an extent that Trump considering to revoke their "right of entry" would be seen as a powerful sanction.

Second Third, with a regime holding power so tightly and giving so little breathing room (if at all), I seriously question whether the situation could improve without them losing a war or two. Mike Pompeo's view that the West's rapprochement policy had been a failure is not entirely groundless.
#15111024
Patrickov wrote:If everything Trump does is against their interest I wouldn't blame them, just like how we feel towards the Chinese Government because what they do are largely against our interests.

A better proof is to find out something that Trump has done is in their interest, and also in a manner acceptable to them (best with examples that a Democrat president having done exactly the same and publicly endorsed), yet they still criticise Trump for it.

The fact that Trump won the election over their candidate Hillary Clinton is enough for them. But you don't seem to get it. A Republican President is not supposed to do things that are just in the interest of the Democrats. However, when Obama was trying to prevent illegal immigration and caged and deported many of them and even build some fences to stop them from sneaking across the border, the Democrats were not making a big deal of it and even supporting him. Not so with "orange man bad."
#15111028
Godstud wrote:As for enemy? No. They aren't an enemy any more than Iran, Syria, or Russia is an enemy, although Russia did put those bounties on American servicemen, which are quickly forgotten...


Those countries are all enemies of the US and many if not all western countries.

For a country to be an enemy, you need to have animosity aimed at you, and I fail to see China's animosity to the USA even comes close to that of Russia, which is seen, by some, as some sort of ally.

Read the news the last 20 years. China isn't our ally, they aren't neutral, they've long been waging a full-scale clandestine assault to steal as much information and technology as they can from western countries in order benefit themselves and overtake the US in power. Looks like they've fooled you too.
#15111043
Godstud wrote:China is one of USA's biggest trading partners, and have been for a long time. That is not an "enemy". :roll:

The Chinese Communist Party has really fooled you. However, that is to be expected from a Canadian, who has deserted his home country to live in Thailand.
#15111049
I don't believe ANYONE is an enemy, unless you are actively at war with them, and such is obviously not the case, with China. I guess we have different ideas of what constitutes an enemy. For you it's anyone who doesn't think like an American, in which case you might consider Canada an enemy. :knife:


@Hindsite. I have no more abandoned my country than you abandoned your god, your family, and your country. I served my country, and I am Canadian citizen first, and always. That you would suggest otherwise only shows how low you will stoop to defend your scumbag ideology.

Where you live doesn't determine anything. I know Americans living here who would slap that shit-eating grin off your face for saying such bullshit. Grow up.
#15111107
Godstud wrote:Where you live doesn't determine anything. I know Americans living here who would slap that shit-eating grin off your face for saying such bullshit. Grow up.

For some reason, I don't find the fact that you have violent, aggressive, friends who feel entitled to resort to violence if they don't like what people say, at all surprising. As far as I can make out you seem to have fully supported the 2014 coup and its violent overthrow of democracy, with the accompanying murder, illegal imprisonment, tortures and beatings.
#15111119
Rich wrote:For some reason, I don't find the fact that you have violent, aggressive, friends who feel entitled to resort to violence if they don't like what people say, at all surprising.
I am pointing out how offensive his words are, and would be, even to his own fellow Americans. I guess nuance is beyond you.

As far as I can make it out, I have no say in Thailand politics and have said nothing to support your lies and stupid assumptions. I do not involve myself in Thai politics, as I have no say, and would prefer to live here and not get thrown in jail or deported. Keep your stupid opinions to yourself. They are absolutely inaccurate and flawed.
#15111170
Godstud wrote:I am pointing out how offensive his words are, and would be, even to his own fellow Americans. I guess nuance is beyond you.

As far as I can make it out, I have no say in Thailand politics and have said nothing to support your lies and stupid assumptions. I do not involve myself in Thai politics, as I have no say, and would prefer to live here and not get thrown in jail or deported. Keep your stupid opinions to yourself. They are absolutely inaccurate and flawed.

It would be nice if you would follow your own advice and keep your stupid opinions to yourself.
#15111171
@Hindsite, you don't like when people make actual arguments that you are incapable of disputing so you turn to personal insults, and say cowardly, childish things. @Rich is no better. You're the one voicing stupid opinions, with nothing to support them.


China's no enemy of USA. They are not at war.

China constitutes 7.7% of USA's trade.
https://money.cnn.com/interactive/news/ ... index.html
#15111174
Godstud wrote:@Hindsite, you don't like when people make actual arguments that you are incapable of disputing so you turn to personal insults, and say cowardly, childish things.

I simply repeated your own words back to you. If you consider that an insult, so be it. :lol:

Godstud wrote:China's no enemy of USA. They are not at war.

Even the left-wing New York Times recognizes the trade war and cold war with China. Why don't you?

How the Cold War Between China and U.S. Is Intensifying

In defense, trade, technology, media and diplomacy, among other areas, the rancor between the Trump administration and China’s ruling Communist Party is worsening.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/worl ... d-war.html
#15111176
Hindsite wrote:I simply repeated your own words back to you. If you consider that an insult, so be it.
No, you didn't. You just tried to take the conversation off topic, which you do when you can't defend your BS.

USA considers all competitors in Capitalism to be enemies? Wow. Americans really are insecure. This has not always been the case.

Handy that you picked an article behind a pay-wall. i guess you didn't want people actually reading it.
#15111177
Godstud wrote:No, you didn't. You just tried to take the conversation off topic, which you do when you can't defend your BS.

USA considers all competitors in Capitalism to be enemies? Wow. Americans really are insecure. This has not always been the case.

Handy that you picked an article behind a pay-wall. i guess you didn't want people actually reading it.
The New York Times article was not behind a pay wall for me. I don't pay to see left-wing news. It may be that you just can't get it in Thailand. Anyway, here is more of the article:

Tensions between China and the United States have reached the most acute levels since the countries normalized diplomatic relations more than four decades ago, with the American government’s ordering that China close its Houston consulate being just the latest example.

In defense, trade, technology, human rights and other categories, actions and reprisals by one side or the other have escalated sharply under President Trump’s administration, despite his repeated expressions of admiration for President Xi Jinping of China.

The administration is even weighing a blanket ban on travel to the United States by the 92 million members of China’s ruling Communist Party and the possible expulsion of any members currently in the country, an action that would likely invite retaliation against American travel and residency in China.

“I think we’re in a dangerous and precipitous spiral downward, not without cause, but without the proper diplomatic skills to arrest it,” said Orville Schell, director of the Center on U.S.-China Relations at the Asia Society. The severity of the confrontation, he said, “has jumped the wall from specific and solvable challenges to a clash of systems and values.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/worl ... d-war.html
#15111178
As I have repeated, this does not make China an ENEMY. China is not intrinsically hostile to the USA, and vice versa.

"Tensions being high" does not translate to "China is the enemy". Understand?

Many news sites have pay-walls where if you have been to their sites in the past, you have to pay to see more. I try not to ever use sites like this as sources, since the person I am showing this source to, might not be able to see it, but at least quoting some of it is usually enough.

Now, do you approve of Trump praising Xi, or can trump still do no wrong, in your infatuated eyes?
#15111340
skinster wrote:https://twitter.com/Louis_Allday/status/1290305297731538944?s=20




The statement "propaganda works" shows the utterer is out of depth.

The question is always "why" that so-called "propaganda" works.

Those who listen to so-called "propaganda" are not (all) stupid. Such sentences usually imply the utterer believing the general public being stupid (or at least more stupid than the utterer), showing the utterer having a big opinion on himself.

Such arrogance is exactly why China or these China apologists never understand their problem.

Their favourite country and race are repulsive even among themselves. Get a grip.

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