Blast in Beirut, Lebanon - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15111595
I don't really care about middle eastern people blowing themselves up but this globalism thing is BS. It's like, leave your door open, come back and see someone has wrecked your house. Instead of closing your door you leave it open and go out and attack whoever you claim did it. So stupid.
#15111609
@JohnRawls

From the horse's mouth...

"American military leaders “seem to think it was an attack,” President Trump told reporters at the White House, which was at odds with what Lebanese officials said. “It was a bomb of some kind.”"

— New York Times, Aug. 4, 2020


:)
By Rugoz
#15111611
ingliz wrote:@JohnRawls

From the horse's mouth...

"American military leaders “seem to think it was an attack,” President Trump told reporters at the White House, which was at odds with what Lebanese officials said. “It was a bomb of some kind.”"

— New York Times, Aug. 4, 2020


:)


Hence we can safely say it wasn't a bomb. Thanks to Trump the truth is so obvious. :up:
#15111628
I saw a piece of footage which made me wonder how the person filming it was alive to share it :eek:
#15111629
This is scary stuff.

Lebanon is getting really hammered badly of late.



Apparently, they felt the blast in Cyprus. It must have been absolutely enormous.
#15111636
ingliz wrote:@JohnRawls

From the horse's mouth...

"American military leaders “seem to think it was an attack,” President Trump told reporters at the White House, which was at odds with what Lebanese officials said. “It was a bomb of some kind.”"

— New York Times, Aug. 4, 2020


:)


Yes, i get it that you and @skinster are anti-semites. Please continue jerking off to videos of violence against black people violence that you think has been conducted by israel.
#15111644






JohnRawls wrote:Yes, i get it that you and @skinster are anti-semites. Please continue jerking off to videos of violence against black people violence that you think has been conducted by israel.


How is this a response to Trump (and others) immediately calling it an attack? :lol:

That it happened in Lebanon, a state that's been under Israeli attacks for 4 decades that's included threats of destruction by Apartheid State this week, it wouldn't be a shock for some of us who know what Israel does, to assume this was an attack.

Your virtue signalling though is hilarious. :lol: at people trying the "you're antisemitic for defending Palestinians against racist oppression" thing in 2020. Weaponising antisemitism is awful too, but I suppose fits your character in general.
#15111646
skinster wrote:
When first discussing this in TLTE I said it could be entirely accidental. But if it was Israel nobody would be surprised since it's been attacking Lebanon for decades. And fuck off with antisemitism accusations, you're the anti-semites for supporting Zionism (Palestinians are semites you boring and dumb nerd).



JohnRawls wrote:
You are an anti-semite the same way as the people you supported in Labour. You don't bat an eye at spreading rumours and linking Israel AND the Jews to any negative things happening in the world.



---


ingliz wrote:
@JohnRawls

From the horse's mouth...

"American military leaders “seem to think it was an attack,” President Trump told reporters at the White House, which was at odds with what Lebanese officials said. “It was a bomb of some kind.”"

— New York Times, Aug. 4, 2020


:)



JohnRawls wrote:
Yes, i get it that you and @skinster are anti-semites. Please continue jerking off to videos of violence against black people violence that you think has been conducted by israel.



This is your indictment, racist?

Skinster already noted that you're a Zionist, and now you're accusing ingliz and skinster of somehow hating Jews based on Trump's jumping-to-conclusions / overreaction / militarization of the explosion in Beirut?

Take your playground antics somewhere else, please.
#15111648
Are there many unaccounted for? Because a hundred dead seems like a rather low death toll for such a massive blast :eh:
#15111651
I think that number will rise as time goes on. Over 300,000 people have been displaced. Things are so fucked there.

Wasn't poster @anasawad there last I heard? I hope he and his family are ok.







ckaihatsu wrote:This is your indictment, racist?

Skinster already noted that you're a Zionist, and now you're accusing ingliz and skinster of somehow hating Jews based on Trump's jumping-to-conclusions / overreaction / militarization of the explosion in Beirut?

Take your playground antics somewhere else, please.


Zionist projection is a hella of a drug. It's also because we defend Palestinian human rights (which he ignores while pretending to care about racism) and it's also very likely he's entirely clueless to the violence Apartheid Country has committed against Lebanon for so long. But thanks for noticing his antics, I think he thought he'd be more popular with his concern trolling in favour of Zionism, but it's 2020 and crying racism while supporting racism is increasingly seen for the bullshit it is.
#15111655
ckaihatsu wrote:Take a look at Israel being listed in the 'Allies' section (right-hand column) for FSA:

Additionally
That it’s sworn to destroy Israel? That it’s a terrorist group, proscribed both by the United States and the European Union? That it rules Gaza with an iron fist? That it’s killed hundreds of innocent Israelis with rocket, mortar, and suicide attacks?

But did you also know that Hamas — which is an Arabic acronym for “Islamic Resistance Movement” — would probably not exist today were it not for the Jewish state? That the Israelis helped turn a bunch of fringe Palestinian Islamists in the late 1970s into one of the world’s most notorious militant groups? That Hamas is blowback?

This isn’t a conspiracy theory. Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)

“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.

They didn’t listen to him. And Hamas, as I explain in the fifth installment of my short film series for The Intercept on blowback, was the result. To be clear: First, the Israelis helped build up a militant strain of Palestinian political Islam, in the form of Hamas and its Muslim Brotherhood precursors; then, the Israelis switched tack and tried to bomb, besiege, and blockade it out of existence.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday’s Likud faction meeting said.
Netanyahu explained that, in the past, the PA transferred the millions of dollars to Hamas in Gaza. He argued that it was better for Israel to serve as the pipeline to ensure the funds don’t go to terrorism.
“Now that we are supervising, we know it’s going to humanitarian causes,” the source said, paraphrasing Netanyahu.The prime minister also said that, “whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for” transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state .
https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Netanyahu-Money-to-Hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-Palestinians-divided-583082
Yossi Kuperwasser, former head of research for Israel's military intelligence, says that there's one good reason Israel is helping Qatar help Gaza.

"Nobody else is ready to help but Qatar," he says.

Kuperwasser says that because Hamas is not only a militia but also the de facto government, improving life in Gaza could deter Hamas from war.

"We believe that better conditions in Gaza would lessen the incentive of Hamas and the population to go again to a war," he says. "So in a way, it is helping the deterrence. But the purpose is to improve the conditions of the people of Gaza and enable them to live a respectable life."

A Hamas spokesman said Israel is facilitating Qatar mainly to deflect criticism over the war destruction and the continued restrictions on materials going into Gaza.

One Israeli who knows Qatar well says aiding Qatar's work in Gaza is a new Israeli policy.

"I'm very surprised. Because I don't believe that this should be the way," says Eli Avidar, who used to run an Israeli trade office in Qatar and recently published a book about that experience, called The Abyss. The trade office operated for more than a decade although Israel never had an embassy. He says after last summer's war, international pressure on Qatar grew to stop financing Hamas' armed wing. Israel's approach now undermines that, he says.

"Providing the Qataris with the ability to do something like this enables the Qataris to maintain their policy that on the one hand [is] supporting terrorism and on the other hand appearing in the international community as a positive factor in the region," he says.
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/06/18/414693807/why-israel-lets-qatar-give-millions-to-hamas
During the early 1970s the greatest enemy to Israel was known as the Palestinian Liberation Organization who was known for waging terror attacks on Israeli civilians and targets all over the world.

The PLO was known for being a Socialist organization whose sole purpose was the elimination of the state of Israel along with the establishment of a socialist state of Palestine where the constitution would be run by secular Marxism rather than Islam.

Due to the short sidedness of the Rabin administration and later Begin there was an idea to bring about a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood into Gaza and the Palestinian territories to counter balance the strength and popularity of the PLO.

In the early seventies Shiekh Ahmed Yassin started the Organization Mujama Al Islamiya which helped establish the Islamic University in Gaza, hospitals and schools.

Just like the United States was funding the Taliban to fight in Afghanistan against the Soviets to bring down the communists so too was Israel selling Arms to Iran to fight their archenemy Iraq during the early eighties.

Islamic fundamentalism was not seen as a threat to world peace, instead it was Marxists terrorists around the world who were seen as a threat so Muslim extremists were seen as natural allies against G-dless communists.

Precursor to Hamas was from the Muslim Brotherhood who were persecuted by the secular Ba’athist government of Egypt to the point their leader Sayyid Qutb was executed by the Egyptian government in 1966.

Egypt and secular socialist Arab governments were at war at the time against Islamic extremism so the Israelis saw them as a natural ally against their common enemy.

Shiekh Yassin was on such good terms with the Israeli state that he would receive treatment in Israeli hospitals.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/hamas-israels-own-creation/
ckaihatsu wrote: Skinster already noted that you're a Zionist, and now you're accusing ingliz and skinster of somehow hating Jews based on Trump's jumping-to-conclusions / overreaction / militarization of the explosion in Beirut?

Take your playground antics somewhere else, please.
This should not come as a surprise that @JohnRawls would respond thusly . As this late member of the Knesset , Shulamit Aloni , once stated ,
#15111667
skinster wrote:
Zionist projection is a hella of a drug. It's also because we defend Palestinian human rights (which he ignores while pretending to care about racism) and it's also very likely he's entirely clueless to the violence Apartheid Country has committed against Lebanon for so long. But thanks for noticing his antics, I think he thought he'd be more popular with his concern trolling in favour of Zionism, but it's 2020 and crying racism while supporting racism is increasingly seen for the bullshit it is.



---


Deutschmania wrote:
This should not come as a surprise that @JohnRawls would respond thusly .



---


Yup.
By wat0n
#15111678
ckaihatsu wrote:This is your indictment, racist?


Why is it that Marxists constantly need to project their own genocidal racism onto others? Why is it that such irrational hatred of Jews is so common among them anyway?

Let's see what Marx had to say about Jews:

Karl Marx (1844) wrote:...

We are trying to break with the theological formulation of the question. For us, the question of the Jew’s capacity for emancipation becomes the question: What particular social element has to be overcome in order to abolish Judaism? For the present-day Jew’s capacity for emancipation is the relation of Judaism to the emancipation of the modern world. This relation necessarily results from the special position of Judaism in the contemporary enslaved world.

Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew – not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew.

Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew.

What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.

Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Judaism, would be the self-emancipation of our time.

An organization of society which would abolish the preconditions for huckstering, and therefore the possibility of huckstering, would make the Jew impossible. His religious consciousness would be dissipated like a thin haze in the real, vital air of society. On the other hand, if the Jew recognizes that this practical nature of his is futile and works to abolish it, he extricates himself from his previous development and works for human emancipation as such and turns against the supreme practical expression of human self-estrangement.

We recognize in Judaism, therefore, a general anti-social element of the present time, an element which through historical development – to which in this harmful respect the Jews have zealously contributed – has been brought to its present high level, at which it must necessarily begin to disintegrate.

In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Judaism.

...


Could it be that the oldest hatred is, in fact, deeply embedded in Marxist politics from the beginning?
#15111684
wat0n wrote:
Why is it that Marxists constantly need to project their own genocidal racism onto others? Why is it that such irrational hatred of Jews is so common among them anyway?

Let's see what Marx had to say about Jews:



Could it be that the oldest hatred is, in fact, deeply embedded in Marxist politics from the beginning?



You're putting forth a *red herring*, because there's no *prejudice* or *hatred* of Jews on display from the quote you provided.

Marx is describing a certain *demographic category*, and his critique parallels a description / critique of the dispossessed *lumpenproletariat*, and possibly also of the *petty bourgeoisie*:



The term lumpenproletariat (/ˌlʌmpənproʊlɪˈtɛəriət/) refers – primarily in Marxist theory – to the underclass devoid of class consciousness.[1] Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels coined the word in the 1840s and used it to refer to the unthinking lower strata of society exploited by reactionary and counter-revolutionary forces, particularly in the context of the revolutions of 1848. They dismissed the revolutionary potential of the lumpenproletariat and contrasted it with the proletariat.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpenproletariat



---


You're *overgeneralizing* from the specific critique, to indict *Marxism* as a whole, which is an invalid assertion.
By wat0n
#15111687
ckaihatsu wrote:You're putting forth a *red herring*, because there's no *prejudice* or *hatred* of Jews on display from the quote you provided.

Marx is describing a certain *demographic category*, and his critique parallels a description / critique of the dispossessed *lumpenproletariat*, and possibly also of the *petty bourgeoisie*:

You're *overgeneralizing* from the specific critique, to indict *Marxism* as a whole, which is an invalid assertion.


Saying "Jews follow the religion of hucksterism" is not prejudiced at all, heh? This is unironically what happens to your brain when you get into the Marxian dogma.

Another lefty meme I recall is that "silence is violence". Maybe their silence when it comes to the Prophet Marx should be interpreted in the same light?
#15111692
wat0n wrote:
Saying "Jews follow the religion of hucksterism" is not prejudiced at all, heh? This is unironically what happens to your brain when you get into the Marxian dogma.

Another lefty meme I recall is that "silence is violence". Maybe their silence when it comes to the Prophet Marx should be interpreted in the same light?



Granted, it doesn't *sound* that good, by our contemporary standards of phrasing regarding social minority groups like Jews, but I still don't see any *antagonism*, much less prejudice or hatred towards Jews, from the writing.

I think the description follows the *empirical situation* that Jews were put into, socially, as a result of the real-world discrimination that they've faced -- historically Jews have been in finance-related occupations, and have been *demonized* according to that niche of the professions. Also, many have been in the lumpenproletariat due to their lessened social status and outright oppression against them.

*You're* the one making inaccurate characterizations, of Marxism, in attempting to equate it to religious belief, when it's actually based on *empirical reality*, and observations of such, as with the quote you provided about the historical professional role of Jews in society.

We could say that 'hucksterism' is *unkind*, at worst, but it's also empirically *accurate*, in the sense of 'petty financial dealings' -- the tone of it aside.
By Rugoz
#15111696
ckaihatsu wrote:We could say that 'hucksterism' is *unkind*, at worst, but it's also empirically *accurate*, in the sense of 'petty financial dealings' -- the tone of it aside.


"petty financial dealing"? What does that even mean :roll:

Finance plays an important role in an economy, no matter what Marxists think about it.
#15111699
Rugoz wrote:
"petty financial dealing"? What does that even mean :roll:

Finance plays an important role in an economy, no matter what Marxists think about it.



Think 'petty bourgeoisie' here -- small shopkeepers, with a modest investment of capital, just for the store (of handicrafts, or whatever), within the *far larger* context of (white-supremacist-type) *corporate* capital, based on *industrial* mass production, and all of the vast profits from such.
By wat0n
#15111700
ckaihatsu wrote:Granted, it doesn't *sound* that good, by our contemporary standards of phrasing regarding social minority groups like Jews, but I still don't see any *antagonism*, much less prejudice or hatred towards Jews, from the writing.

I think the description follows the *empirical situation* that Jews were put into, socially, as a result of the real-world discrimination that they've faced -- historically Jews have been in finance-related occupations, and have been *demonized* according to that niche of the professions. Also, many have been in the lumpenproletariat due to their lessened social status and outright oppression against them.

*You're* the one making inaccurate characterizations, of Marxism, in attempting to equate it to religious belief, when it's actually based on *empirical reality*, and observations of such, as with the quote you provided about the historical professional role of Jews in society.


It didn't even sound all that good while Marx himself was alive, but if you want to argue for presentism in this issue then I hope you will agree it's silly to use our contemporary moral standards when it comes to other people who lived centuries ago.

ckaihatsu wrote:We could say that 'hucksterism' is *unkind*, at worst, but it's also empirically *accurate*, in the sense of 'petty financial dealings' -- the tone of it aside.


I second @Rugoz here. The mere participation in the financial sector is not hucksterism and ironically this conception of finance was a relic from Medieval Christianity. And we know this because, in practice, Marxist regimes did engage in financial dealings as well.
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