So how deadly is it? - Page 33 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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User avatar
By XogGyux
#15111210
Tainari88 wrote:@XogGyux a lot of people are dying in my city due to CoVid19, they are going back to 'semaforo rojo'. That means drastic measures. I have hired a tutor for my little boy to get ready for August when none of the kids can attend school. They will be taught at home online. It is terrible. No fresh air, no parks, no stores, no sports, no cultural activities, no dance, and no social interaction. Kids need that for healthy development. This is a world wide problem. Where are the solutions from that Orange Tan man asshole and the others who don't have plans at all?

Vaccinations are not the answer. They need to find a way of re-opening a normal school schedule. So many kids in Mexico don't have internet or computers, or tablets. They don't have the technology. If they stay home they get zero education. You can't allow kids to fall behind for a year or two til this blows over. It is not acceptable.

Incompetent assholes in charge is not going to help.


I don't think you can necessarily blame Mexico's own problem to Trump as much as I would like that :lol: . It is true, that with a more competent president it is likely that not only the US but the entire world could have been better off since everyone looks at the US for leadership.
It is sad that we are giving up that position of leadership and It will likely come back to haunt us in the future.
We are on a terrible situation, no approach is going to be perfect. Yes, kids should be in school but whether we can afford to do that is another entirely different question. We can deal with the education deficiencies and/or behavioral problems that kids might develop for missing a few months of school. After all every kid gets several months worth of vacation through the year, some get schooled, etc. That is something that is certainly not optimal (both for their development but also for their parent's sanity or even their finantial well being since some will have to either miss work, or hire tutors, or hire baby sitters, etc). What we might not be able to deal as effectively is if there is a collapse of healthcare, or if the kid gets extremely sick, or if the kid pass it to the parents/grandparents and lose a love one way earlier that they needed to, etc.
I cannot speak for mexico, but we saw it happen in the US... that we had it recently under control, we probably just needed a couple extra weeks and a strong follow up plan (e.g. open with masks and contact tracing) but instead it seems the whole country just gave up and we are reliving the whole situation. We could have been where south korea is... where europe is going.
Anyhow...
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15111216
XogGyux wrote:I don't think you can necessarily blame Mexico's own problem to Trump as much as I would like that :lol: . It is true, that with a more competent president it is likely that not only the US but the entire world could have been better off since everyone looks at the US for leadership.
It is sad that we are giving up that position of leadership and It will likely come back to haunt us in the future.
We are on a terrible situation, no approach is going to be perfect. Yes, kids should be in school but whether we can afford to do that is another entirely different question. We can deal with the education deficiencies and/or behavioral problems that kids might develop for missing a few months of school. After all every kid gets several months worth of vacation through the year, some get schooled, etc. That is something that is certainly not optimal (both for their development but also for their parent's sanity or even their finantial well being since some will have to either miss work, or hire tutors, or hire baby sitters, etc). What we might not be able to deal as effectively is if there is a collapse of healthcare, or if the kid gets extremely sick, or if the kid pass it to the parents/grandparents and lose a love one way earlier that they needed to, etc.
I cannot speak for mexico, but we saw it happen in the US... that we had it recently under control, we probably just needed a couple extra weeks and a strong follow up plan (e.g. open with masks and contact tracing) but instead it seems the whole country just gave up and we are reliving the whole situation. We could have been where south korea is... where europe is going.
Anyhow...


I think the problem is that in Mexico it is very rare to have one or two person households. The majority are BIG households. Parents, grandparents and kids, aunts and uncles. Etc. And too many parties. Having Mexicans give up parties is HARD. They hate not celebrating life.It is mission impossible for them to stop having parties.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15111291
@Tainari88 Thailand and Mexico are very similar in social interactions and it was tough to get them to stop social gatherings and parties, but they did. They weren't in the situation that North America is in, either. Not even close.

It is NOT impossible.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15111297
Godstud wrote:@Tainari88 Thailand and Mexico are very similar in social interactions and it was tough to get them to stop social gatherings and parties, but they did. They weren't in the situation that North America is in, either. Not even close.

It is NOT impossible.


I don't know Godstud. It is not looking good with the virus. They are strict. But the problem is too many people circulating. They all use masks. Gel. Bleach for the mats.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15111298
You cannot eat, or drink, while wearing a mask. People who think you can, are wrong.
By Rich
#15111332
When ever there's some new major event, there are always the demands to not politicise it. These demands should never be taken in good faith. The right loved 9/11, absolutely loved it. And to anyone that had spent any time studying politics it should have been obvious that 9/11 would be an event that would suit the Rights ideological agenda.

Now while I certainly argued that Muslims as as a whole were an existential threat to humanity prior to 9/11, that the Islamic virus needed to be confronted, contained and massively reduced, I never for one moment condoned the pathetic, cowardly hysterical over reaction to the actual 9/11 attacks. It was quite obvious, at least to me that 9/11 was essentially unrepeatable. I was more than happy to call out the American people for their pathetic hysterical cowardice at the time, as I was later more than happy to call out my fellow British for their pathetic, hysterical cowardly response to 7/7.

As 9/11 favoured the political Right, as 9/11 allowed the Right to ride the wave of fear, so the Xi virus favoured the political Left. I do think the Xi virus was actually a much, much bigger threat than 9/11, the Madrid train bombings 7/7 style attacks. Without any counter measures it would have lead to a very statistically noticeable increase in deaths across the world. However I never thought long term containment let alone elimination was a viable strategy. And I strongly suspect that many of the more intelligent members of the left in both Britain and America share my view in this.
Last edited by Rich on 04 Aug 2020 09:32, edited 1 time in total.
By Rich
#15111335
It should be noted that early on the crisis the left in Britain and America were fearful. A virus that was contained to China and Iran would have been a nightmare for the Left. A virus that was contained to China and America would have perfectly suited the Right's and particularly the Trumpist agenda. This is why early on the Left in conjunction with the WHO worked hard to make sure the virus was allowed to spread to western countries. This is the same way that early on in the development of the AIDS epidemic that Left worked hard to stop the containment and confinement of the AIDS virus to Africa and Gay communities.

The Xi virus is a fascinating political phenomena, because although it just naturally favour's the Left's agenda ideologically, men and particularly the old are most vulnerable. Two demographics that favour the Right electorally. This has discombobulated any coherent political response to this crisis from the political Right.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15111341
Sivad wrote:lol
That's the smartest thing you've said in a very long time. :D
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#15111413
Tainari88 wrote:It is not looking good with the virus. They are strict. But the problem is too many people circulating. They all use masks. Gel. Bleach for the mats.

It's tragic that so many people are dying.

In British Columbia, drug overdoses have killed 15 times as many people during COVID than the virus has. How many of these additional overdoses are COVID-measures related?

Likewise, how many additional deaths in other parts of the world (including where you are) are actually due to the measures, and not to the virus?

I ask this because "stay home and watch netflix for three months" might sound boring and harsh in rich countries, but in less rich countries, these "orders" from "authorities" can kill a lot of people.

Likewise, the media control over this COVID operation suggests something other than "science" at work. If it is corporations that are behind all these additional deaths and misery, is it really surprising? They (corporations) are the powerful human inventions that have no empathy, and are thus unstoppable in their creative search for total dominance.

Humans have been warned several times in Modern History about the dangers of allowing powerful businessmen to control social narratives and resources. Words like "surplus labor," "human resources," and "pyramid schemes" all point to where human rights and equality stand in the eyes of the controlling elite and their quest for more and more control.
By Sivad
#15111440
CDC director acknowledges hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths

U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Robert Redfield agreed that some hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths as they do deaths for other diseases.

“I think you’re correct in that we’ve seen this in other disease processes, too. Really, in the HIV epidemic, somebody may have a heart attack but also have HIV — the hospital would prefer the [classification] for HIV because there’s greater reimbursement,” Redfield said during a House panel hearing Friday when asked by Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer about potential “perverse incentives.”

Redfield continued: “So, I do think there’s some reality to that. When it comes to death reporting, though, ultimately, it’s how the physician defines it in the death certificate, and … we review all of those death certificates. So I think, probably it is less operable in the cause of death, although I won’t say there are not some cases. I do think though [that] when it comes to hospital reimbursement issues or individuals that get discharged, there could be some play in that for sure.”
@2:36:00


________________________________________________

Dr Birx: Death count inflated by 25%

During a task force meeting Wednesday, a heated discussion broke out between Deborah Birx, the physician who oversees the administration’s coronavirus response, and Robert Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Birx and others were frustrated with the CDC’s antiquated system for tracking virus data, which they worried was inflating some statistics — such as mortality rate and case count — by as much as 25 percent, according to four people present for the discussion or later briefed on it. Two senior administration officials said the discussion was not heated.

“There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust,” Birx said, according to two of the people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

User avatar
By Godstud
#15111520
@QatzelOk You are the King of false Equivalencies.

Drug overdoses are no infectious. If you overdose, it won't affect your doctor's health or anyone else's health.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#15111556
Godstud wrote:@QatzelOk You are the King of false Equivalencies.

Drug overdoses are no infectious. If you overdose, it won't affect your doctor's health or anyone else's health.

British Columbia experienced 15 times as many deaths from overdose as from COVID.

And yet, it is COVID that is being treated as an emergency there. And the deaths by overdose kill just as totally as a hypothetical COVID death would.

When a people are mindless enough to follow directions that make no sense, their time is just about up. They have jumped the shark.

I blame suburbia and mass media for our current level of social stupidity. And that these two things are both commercial scams... seems to point to another one right now.
#15111562
QatzelOk wrote:British Columbia experienced 15 times as many deaths from overdose as from COVID.

And yet, it is COVID that is being treated as an emergency there. And the deaths by overdose kill just as totally as a hypothetical COVID death would.

When a people are mindless enough to follow directions that make no sense, their time is just about up. They have jumped the shark.

I blame suburbia and mass media for our current level of social stupidity. And that these two things are both commercial scams... seems to point to another one right now.

You fail to account for the fact that part of the reason COVID infections and/or deaths are low in many places is because there are measures in place precisely to avoid exposure to this disease.
Your argument would be the same as saying... swimming in lava is not that dangerous, after all there are far more people dying to dog attacks than to lava swimming... exactly... people are avoiding swimming in lava to begin with... :lol:
Dude... when basically most of the world is taking this seriously and you and a handful other conspiracy theories and/or political fanatics are the only ones going against the current, there is probably something wrong with your idea.
What kind of retarded corporation-bashing theory you have now? I am looking forward of how you can explain how corporations wants people to stay at home rather than working as the slaves they are and buying shit like the sheep they are (according to you). Corporations wants you to spend time at home, safely, with your family because they hate humanity.
Dude... when all you have is a hammer... everything looks like a nail.
#15111565
XogGyux wrote:You fail to account for the fact that part of the reason COVID infections and/or deaths are low in many places is because there are measures in place precisely to avoid exposure to this disease.

Abba sang a lot of songs about this theme.

They're from Sweden, a country that didn't take the killer-zombie route of lockdowns and masks and fear. And Sweden's death rate is lower than the UK or USA. But a few months ago, COVID-fans were predicting streets full of body-bags in Sweden. Never happened.

Now that the virus is pretty well gone, we're forced to wear masks that don't even protect against viruses.

All of this theatre feels like a vaccine infomercial. And it demonstrates how corrupt the world's governments have become due to capitalism and regulatory capture. THIS is where the very serious problem lies. Not in a virus.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15111574
QatzelOk wrote:
All of this theatre feels like a vaccine infomercial. And it demonstrates how corrupt the world's governments have become due to capitalism and regulatory capture. THIS is where the very serious problem lies. Not in a virus.


LOL Does not seem you understand capitalism as much then. If you think most countries with billion of people combined would put their whole economy in peril for a non-sense issue you certainly need something better than a wild theory that doesn't even make sense. We discussed this prior... if pharmaceutical companies were willing to join a multinational, highly unethical/criminal plot to make money... pushing vaccines and /or social distancing is exactly the wrong thing to do. Having more people sick and selling them expensive medication cocktails is far more profitable than risking trying to make a vaccine, which might fail and/or be inferior to the competitor's and would prevent people from getting sick (and using those very profitable drugs that we talked about previously).

Here is your favorite country:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN24M200
They promoted masks, social distancing, they had closures and they endorse vaccines.
It must be very confusing to live inside your brain.
By Rich
#15111610
I'm perfectly au fait with the need to make sacrifices, to make compromises for ones family and friends, for ones neighbours, for one's local community, for one's country and possibly for even wider groups of humans. I'm also perfectly au fait with the need to have rule systems, and those rule systems can never be perfectly fair, or perfectly rational. However there are limits to my toleration, in particular there are two reasons I will not even consider voluntarily wearing masks.

1 The pubs are open. The pubs were one of the first things to open in Britain. Initially people had to drink outside, but that just meant closely spaced crowds of drunk and semi drunk people. Now people can drink in or out. If the pubs are open the country is clearly not taking this seriously, don't expect any sacrifices from me.

2 The Black Lies Matter demonstrations. Never mind the riots, the demonstrations and the fact that every single protester was not arrested, were again a clear sign that this is not about saving lives. As far as I'm concerned, any Liberal who in anyway condoned the BLM demonstrations, in terms of this virus I wouldn't lift a finger to save their lives.
Last edited by Rich on 05 Aug 2020 17:43, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#15111673
XogGyux wrote:If you think most countries with billion of people combined would put their whole economy in peril for a non-sense issue...

The Stock Market and banks are doing relatively fine. They have things under control... for themselves.

I think you're talking about the Main Street economy being ruined. But if this helps the Stock Market and Corporate gangsters, then that's all they will care about.

Main Street provides zero political influence on central governments because they are small potatoes compared to International Finance. So when their needs collide, small business will always lose to the big fish - the International Rentiers.

While small business can afford to hire strike breakers, the International Rentiers are able to hire nation-wreckers and economy wreckers to do their bidding.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15111681
QatzelOk wrote:The Stock Market and banks are doing relatively fine. They have things under control... for themselves.

I think you're talking about the Main Street economy being ruined. But if this helps the Stock Market and Corporate gangsters, then that's all they will care about.

Main Street provides zero political influence on central governments because they are small potatoes compared to International Finance. So when their needs collide, small business will always lose to the big fish - the International Rentiers.

While small business can afford to hire strike breakers, the International Rentiers are able to hire nation-wreckers and economy wreckers to do their bidding.

First off, the stock market is not the economy.
2nd, what most people call "stock market" is just a couple of indices of just a handful of companies, not the whole stock market. Those indices are often often skewed by tech companies which did not suffer much during the pandemic and in some cases also surged due to tele-presence. For instance Apple alones represents 8% of the Dow (which only tracks 30 companies. Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Google makes like 20%+ of the S&P 500, so you could have a whole bunch of companies drop like a rock, if these 4 companies are going up, the index might be able to float fairly well... and that is indeed what happened.
Not to mention, that the index, despite doing relatively well so far... they are still lower than they were before/beginning of the pandemic so your theory would still be crap.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#15111743
XogGyux  wrote:If you think most countries with billion of people combined would put their whole economy in peril for a non-sense issue...

I think that governments of countries often sign away their own citizens' lives in order to make a fortune.

And if that's what the banks want our leaders to do, the banks have enough money and influence to make it happen. World Wars are caused by the banks, and they seem to be using disease this time to kill millions of nobodies... and perhaps poison vaccines.. in order to preserve the infrastructure. Wars would destroy this.

The 99% will have nothing to say about what happens it if they don't revolt. We don't live in a democracy, we live in a Bankster Dictatorship. All the good guys have been extorted.
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