The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 22 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15111453
Doug64 wrote:When it comes to the US you aren’t really talking about a country, but a continent (or at least, a significant chunk of one). That’s why my weekly report covers all the states as well as the US as a whole. Not that that matters, because children, especially young children, aren’t at risk.


Please provide evidence for the claim that children are not at any risk from the virus and that they will not transmit it to other people.

.... essential workers.


If they are essential, then they should be protected because of that. And funding should be provided to ensure that these essential workers can continue to do their jobs. This includes PPE, reducing class sizes, custodial support for the required cleaning, and a way of tracking and treating infections. Does any of this exist?

Considering the current science and the calls by some unions to restrict teachers’ time teaching online, I don’t really see any other interpretation.


Show me the science, please.
#15111591
Pants-of-dog wrote:Please provide evidence for the claim that children are not at any risk from the virus and that they will not transmit it to other people.

That is not the claim. The claim is that children are at must lower risk than all others.

Pants-of-dog wrote:If they are essential, then they should be protected because of that. And funding should be provided to ensure that these essential workers can continue to do their jobs. This includes PPE, reducing class sizes, custodial support for the required cleaning, and a way of tracking and treating infections. Does any of this exist?

That is just more of your bullshit.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Show me the science, please.

[rule 2 insult deleted - Prosthetic Conscience]
#15111675
I thought I'd check out Florida, a place the Libs have been whining a lot about lately. I checked out the top three counties for deaths, of course its the usual story they are all Democratic strongholds.
#15111732
Texas, Florida and Georgia are Republican strongholds, and they're in the top 5, alongside California and New York(which both have the largest populations in the USA, which is a factor you like to ignore).

You're ignoring reality, again, @Rich

https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases

Covid-19 doesn't care about politics.
#15111742
I thought I'd check out Florida, a place the Libs have been whining a lot about lately. I checked out the top three counties for deaths, of course its the usual story they are all Democratic strongholds.


Wait until 8th grade Rich. You will learn why this post is beyond stupid.

As Godstud correctly said, the virus does not care what your political views are. It does however, have an affinity for very stupid people who don't wear a mask and who would send their kids to school during a pandemic in an area with cases on the rise.
#15111768
Godstud wrote:Texas, Florida and Georgia are Republican strongholds,

Covid-19 doesn't care about politics.

You wannna talk about Texas. Its the same old story. The 2 counties with the greatest new deaths were Hildalgo and Cameron, both Democrat counties.
#15111769
Diseases do not care what your politics are.

Also.... OOPS!!!

Coronavirus’ spread in GOP territory, explained in 6 charts
COVID-19 cases in GOP counties catch up to Democratic counties
The rate of coronavirus infection in U.S. counties that voted Republican in the 2016 presidential race has nearly matched Democratic-voting counties, which surged with cases early in the pandemic.
https://apnews.com/7aa2fcf7955333834e01a7f9217c77d2
#15112130
Godstud wrote:Diseases do not care what your politics are.

Also.... OOPS!!!

Coronavirus’ spread in GOP territory, explained in 6 charts
COVID-19 cases in GOP counties catch up to Democratic counties
The rate of coronavirus infection in U.S. counties that voted Republican in the 2016 presidential race has nearly matched Democratic-voting counties, which surged with cases early in the pandemic.
https://apnews.com/7aa2fcf7955333834e01a7f9217c77d2


Do you have any numbers for the Wuhan virus deaths in Republican counties versus Democratic counties?

And for a morning update, a couple of news stories:

Trump plans executive action on payroll taxes, unemployment benefits after Dems lost 'their chance'

    President Trump said Friday night that he’ll take imminent executive action to extend federal unemployment benefits, defer payroll taxes and suspend housing evictions after contentious negotiations with congressional Democrats collapsed earlier in the day.

    “We gave them their chance, but they view it as an election enhancement,” the president said. “We are going to do it in a way that’s just much easier.”

    Speaking at a hastily arranged press conference at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey, with a crowd of club members for a cheering section, the president cited the news Friday that employers added 1.8 million jobs in July. He said, “We must ensure that the progress continues.”

    As he has for the past week, Mr. Trump said he is ready to take executive action to declare a moratorium on evictions in federally backed housing, suspend student loan payments, extend federal unemployment benefits and defer payroll taxes through the end of the year, retroactive to July 1.

    “If Democrats continue to hold this critical relief hostage, I will act under my authority as president to get Americans the relief they need,” Mr. Trump said.

    He said he could take the action “by the end of the week.”

    “They’re being drawn by the lawyers right now,” Mr. Trump said.

    Asked about opponents suing to stop him, the president replied, “Probably we get sued. But people feel we can do it. We have the money. We have plenty of money.”

    Administration officials say there is about $1 trillion unspent from the $2.2 trillion CARES Act that provided coronavirus relief in March.

    White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and Treasury Secretary Steven T. Mnuchin said earlier Friday that they would recommend to Mr. Trump that he take the executive actions as soon as this weekend, after another day of talks with congressional Democrats failed to produce a deal.

    Mr. Trump said his administration has been negotiating “in good faith to reach an agreement with Democrats in Congress.”

    The president said he is ready to defer payroll taxes, which the government imposes on up to 15.3% of wages and self-employment income, split between employees and employers. He also dangled the possibility that it could be extended into the new year, after the November election.

    “I can extend it at a certain period. Hopefully, I will be here to do the job,” Mr. Trump said.

    His comment about deferring those taxes, for the first time, suggested that workers and employers would be required to repay the taxes to the IRS at some point, although it wasn’t immediately clear.

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer said Friday that the White House refused to meet them halfway between their demand of $3.4 trillion in coronavirus relief and Senate Republicans‘ proposal of roughly $1 trillion. Democrats are seeking more than $900 million in aid for states and cities as part of their request.

    Several times during the president’s frequently partisan remarks, the audience of roughly 100 people at the golf club cheered Mr. Trump and applauded.

    When a reporter told the president that there were “dozens of people who are not following the [coronavirus] guidelines in New Jersey,” the crowd booed, and Mr. Trump challenged the journalist.

    “You’re wrong on that because it’s a political activity,” Mr. Trump said. “They have exceptions — political activity — and it’s also a peaceful protest.”

    The crowd cheered and applauded.

    “They pretty much all have masks on,” the president told reporters. “I call it peaceful protest, because they heard you were coming up, and they know the news is fake.”

The Democrats in Congress have put themselves in a really bad position. At this point, it looks to me like their choices are to:

  1. immediately accept a deal with the Republicans to get anything passed, possibly less than they would have gotten if they hadn’t been so stubborn,
  2. sue to try to prevent the President’s executive order from going through, or
  3. do nothing but complain while Trump takes credit for Getting people and businesses the relief the Democrats (and some Republicans) have refused to hand out.

Whichever they choose, Trump is going to be able to take some credit for whatever happens.

Meanwhile, Pelosi was ambushed this week with a member of the MSM(D) that decided to actually act like a reporter rather than a cheerleader, and she didn’t like the experience:

Pelosi claims PBS' Woodruff acting like GOP 'advocate' when pushed on unspent pandemic relief

    Speaker Nancy Pelosi was so displeased this week with PBS’ Judy Woodruff that she accused the journalist of serving as an “advocate” for the Republican Party.

    The California Democrat became visibly frustrated during a “One on One” interview Tuesday in which Ms. Woodruff asked why Democrats couldn’t seem to find a principled compromise with Republicans on another round of coronavirus relief.

    “Democrats want more money, Republicans want a lot less,” Ms. Woodruff said. “They are saying they’re willing to show flexibility, and they’re also saying a lot of the money that was passed in the Spring, Madam Speaker, has not even been spent yet.”

    Ms. Pelosi then raised and shook her hand while chastising the host.
    “Well, if you want to be an advocate for them, Judy, if you want to be an advocate for them—,” the Democrat said.

    “No, I’m playing Devil’s Advocate here to ask you for your position,” Ms. Woodruff interjected.

    “That’s not what the facts are. No, no [you] aren’t,” Ms. Pelosi responded. “You know, I mean, the point is we have a bill that meets the needs of the American people. It’s called The Heroes Act. They have not even, they don’t even wanna do state and local — and when they do it’s very meager.”

    Ms. Woodruff had previously challenged the House Speaker on the notion that Republicans should accept an all-or-nothing approach to the Democrats’ bill.

    “Madam Speaker, the — I mean, with all due respect, you called it piecemeal, and yet what the Republicans were offering was a short-term extension that would have allowed these extra unemployment benefits to keep flowing,” the PBS host said. “Democrats said no.”

    “Well, it would have been finished by now. … [Republicans] didn’t have anything that they could pass in the Senate on their own side. So, if the press wants to say, well, they offered this, they offered that, they — you can’t offer something you don’t have. We have a bill. It’s called the Heroes Act. It passed 11 weeks ago tomorrow. It would have saved lives.”

    President Trump has suggested that he will attempt to find ways to assist Americans via executive orders if acceptable pandemic-relief legislation doesn’t arrive at his desk.
You know things have gotten bad when the Speaker of the House considers a journalist just doing her job to be acting like a cheerleader for the opposition.
#15112136
Pants-of-dog wrote:The Washington Times seems to really be invested in politicizing this illness.

It looks to me like the Washington Times is invested in actually reporting the news. Considering the behavior of the MSM(D), I can understand how some might mistake that for politicization.
#15112139
And yet again, @Doug64 seems far more invested in trying to rationalize the pathetic federal response by comparing the actions of people left leaderless. And, as usual, he ignores the fact that people are dying agonizing and unnecessary deaths and prefers to see this as an economic and political problem.

One thing is certain from the numbers. The red states that are surging now clearly are not smart enough to learn from others who have been through it. They are willing to kill their citizens for economic purposes.

That is OK though. When Trump loses and his well armed followers take to the street it will be interesting to see whether Doug puts his children into the Trump Youth or starts acting like a Christian for a change.
#15112141
@Drlee You know, you still haven’t explained why you are willing to keep open those killers of children, schools—the ones that annually kill children through allowing just the flu to spread, much less other diseases. After all, I imagine the flu alone kills more children each year in California than one and more nationwide than twenty, which is what the Wuhan virus has killed so far. Is your reason for accepting these avoidable flu deaths economic?

Pants-of-dog wrote:@Doug64

Yes, your bias is obvious.

I get it, you can no longer recognize real journalism. Do you have any comments about what the articles reported?

If The WH was serious about the Trump virus, it would put together a public health system plan.

Why should Trump concern himself with a duty that constitutionally lies with the several states?
#15112145
Doug64 wrote:I get it, you can no longer recognize real journalism.


This is a personal attack. It is not only rude, but also shows an inability to address the actual argument.

Do you have any comments about what the articles reported?


Do they say anything useful? Do they support some sort of claim that you made?

Why should Trump concern himself with a duty that constitutionally lies with the several states?


Because it is ultimately his responsibility. Obama used his position to craft health care legislation that helped the whole country, so why is Trump incapable of doing so?
#15112205
@Drlee You know, you still haven’t explained why you are willing to keep open those killers of children, schools—the ones that annually kill children through allowing just the flu to spread, much less other diseases. After all, I imagine the flu alone kills more children each year in California than one and more nationwide than twenty, which is what the Wuhan virus has killed so far. Is your reason for accepting these avoidable flu deaths economic?


And, yet again, @Doug64 looks for any diversion to keep from making Republicans, who are running the government, take responsibility for the deaths they are directly causing.

There is no need to discuss influenza. It is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It is just a diversion. It is possible this is the best he can do. Well. Obviously it is.
#15112283
Pants-of-dog wrote:Do they say anything useful?

Only if you think the politics driving the issue of the Federal relief bill is important.

Drlee wrote:There is no need to discuss influenza. It is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It is just a diversion. It is possible this is the best he can do. Well. Obviously it is.

And again, you duck the question to avoid acknowledging the clear fallacy in your position. Let me know when you are willing to take debating the issue seriously.

And here's the weekly report:

Image

It's interesting, the number of states/nations that rose in the rankings even though their deaths week over week dropped, and vice versa.

And in the news, Trump pulled the trigger:

Trump signs executive orders to defer payroll taxes, extend jobless benefits, halt evictions

    President Trump signed executive orders on Saturday to provide more aid to people hit hard by the coronavirus pandemic, including extending $400 weekly unemployment benefits and granting a payroll tax holiday for workers making less than $100,000, as he accused congressional Democrats of “stonewalling” negotiations.

    “Through these four actions, my administration will provide immediate and vital relief to Americans struggling at this difficult time,” the president said at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey.

    Mr. Trump also said he’s weighing additional income tax relief and capital gains tax cuts.

    The president’s dramatic action, which is likely to encounter legal challenges, suspends payroll taxes until the end of the year, retroactive to Aug.1, for people earning up to $100,000 per year; provides enhanced federal unemployment benefits of $400 per week through December; defers student loan payments and forgives interest; and renews a moratorium on housing evictions.

    Mr. Trump’s move came after two weeks of negotiations with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer of New York failed to produce a deal. Democrats were seeking a package of aid totaling about $3.5 trillion; the White House and Senate Republicans were proposing relief totaling about $1.5 trillion.

    The president said the Democrats’ bill was backed by presumptive Democratic nominee Joseph R. Biden, and included measures such as banning voter ID and providing stimulus checks for illegal aliens, that are “completely unrelated” to the pandemic....

So now the Democrats still have three choices, but not quite the same choices as before. They can sue to prevent the executive orders from going into effect, which would have absolutely horrible optics. They can come to an agreement with the Republicans in the Senate on a bill that includes the executive orders, so giving the EOs legislative legitimacy (like Congress did for Abraham Lincoln's actions after the Civil War kicked off), which looks better than suing but still makes them look like they're following Trump's lead. Or they can continue to refuse to negotiate in good faith while complaining about the EOs, which leaves them looking about as bad as if they sued. They definitely shot themselves in the foot this time.

Meanwhile, in a victory for science, children, and parents:

County rescinds order blocking private schools from reopening after showdown with Gov. Larry Hogan

    Montgomery County rescinded Friday its order closing for non-public schools for in-person learning, ending the weeklong back-and-forth with Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan that had thrown private and independent schools into limbo.

    County health officer Dr. Travis Gayles said his decision to pull the order, which would have blocked private schools from reopening their classrooms until Oct. 1, was based on a policy announced Thursday by the state Department of Health banning blanket closures of non-public schools.

    “The Health Officer continues to strongly advise schools against in-person learning due to the risks posed by COVID-19 and has asked that the Department of Health provide articulable criteria to be used in determining acceptable and safe levels of activity in schools,” said the county in a statement.

    Mr. Hogan praised the county’s decision, saying he was “[p]leased to see that Montgomery Co. has rescinded the blanket mandate closing private and parochial schools.”

    “As long as their plans follow CDC and state guidelines, they should have the same flexibility as public school systems & be empowered to do what’s best for their community,” tweeted Mr. Hogan.

    The announcement came with the state’s seven-day positivity rate for the novel coronavirus falling to 4.05%, its lowest level of the global pandemic. The state also reported a record low one-day positivity rate of 3.08%.

    Dr. Gayles’ order was met with outrage by some private-school families, who held a socially distanced protest Wednesday at the county building in Rockville. Six families filed a lawsuit to block the public-health order.

And another example of the growing Wuhan Resistance:

South Dakota embraces Sturgis motorcycle rally: 'We've been back to normal for three months'

    Officials inside and outside South Dakota are expressing concern about the potential spread of the coronavirus during an annual motorcycle rally that opened Friday in the Black Hills and typically attracts hundreds of thousands of bikers.

    But officials in Sturgis, the town of 7,000 residents that has hosted the rally for 80 years, are not quite as worried.

    “I don’t know if we’re concerned about an outbreak,” said Sturgis spokeswoman Christina Steele. “It’s mostly asymptomatic people that could spread this.”

    Officials in neighboring states, however, don’t share that attitude, which some have called cavalier and others have attributed to South Dakota’s libertarian streak.

    “We are concerned with any large gathering sustained contact of that nature,” Jan Malcolm, commissioner of the Minnesota Department of Health, said at a news conference earlier this week. “South Dakota has seen its spikes, as well. It’s not like they’re going into an environment that has no risk.”

    The coronavirus has not hit South Dakota as hard as other states. The state has had more than 9,200 infections and 141 deaths, and fewer than 50 people currently are hospitalized.

    But positive cases have been climbing over the past two months in neighboring Minnesota, Nebraska and North Dakota. And the South Dakota Department of Health lists Meade and Pennington counties — home to many of the rally events — as having “substantial” community spread of COVID-19.

    In Wyoming, which has had 27 COVID-19-related deaths, officials are recommending that riders should think before hopping on bikes and driving cross-country to the 10-day rally, which is expected to attract about 250,000 bikers — half its usual draw.

    “We recognize this has the potential to be an especially large gathering,” said Kim Deti, spokeswoman for the Wyoming Department of Health. “And we know the larger the gathering, the greater the risk.”

    Despite a town survey showing 60% of residents wanted to cancel this year’s rally, the Sturgis City Council voted this summer to go ahead with the event, where motorcyclists spend millions of dollars amid campgrounds, music venues and other attractions.

    Health warnings have been muted from the state’s leadership. Gov. Kristi Noem, a Repulbican, has discouraged mask-wearing in schools and welcomed President Trump to an outdoor rally at Mount Rushmore last month. She invited riders to the state on during an appearance on Fox News Wednesday evening.

    “We’ve been back to normal for over three months here in South Dakota,” said Ms. Noem. “We hope people come [to Sturgis].”

    The South Dakota Tourism Department estimates last year’s Sturgis Motorcycle Rally drew nearly 500,000 people and generates $800 million in revenue. Riders travel from all over the nation, including COVID-19 hotspots like Florida, California, and Texas.

    This year’s rally will look notably different.

    Tribal nations on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation and the Cheyenne Sioux Reservation — where coronavirus rates have outpaced those in most other counties — have set up checkpoints along major highways into western South Dakota that could slow some riders coming into town.

    And the City of Sturgis has cancelled its sponsorship of some downtown events and is requiring masks to be provided to all staff on city grounds. Concert venues have set up hand sanitizer stations and arranged for crowds to maintain distance from stages.

    Fears that the virus might be brought into the state persist.

    “The biggest thing if for you to decide whether or not you’re safe to go to something like this,” said Dr. Benjamin Aaker, president of the South Dakota Medical Association. “Should I go this year or not? Talk to your doctor about whether you can be safe.”
#15112288
Even arch Liberal Nate Silver has admitted that New York may have a significant level of herd immunity. New York state has a claimed death rate of 0.17% from the Xi virus. Now that figure has clearly been exaggerated. We know lots of deaths were attributed to the virus without anything approaching proof. But even if we accepted the figure as it stands its still far too low. Remember the Liberals at the start of this were claiming a death rate of 3% for those exposed to the virus. If that were really the case you should not even begin to see a noticeable herd immunity effect until the death rate reached 1%.

Its difficult to underestimate the intelligence of the average Liberal. A big part of the problem is that a lot of our early analysis came from the Diamond Princess. The death rate of those infected was 2.5%. Note even here it didn't live up to the three percent death rate being touted by so many Liberals. But still a 2.5% death rate for the whole world population would be pretty terrifying. It still would be an order of magnitude less bad than the Black Death but it still would be fair to describe it as a biblical scale tragedy. The Liberal stupidity was to imagine that that would happen, without draconian authoritarian government intervention.

Yes, yes some of us anti Marxists do actually understand exponentials, but some of us are also intelligent enough to understand that one the age profile of the the Diamond Princess population was not representative and that exponentials rarely continue until they've saturated the whole population. The death rate among the crew was actually 0%. That's right not one of the 145 infect crew members died. Even if no special measures had been taken, there is no reason to presume that any of the 1045 crew members would have died. Its not just that younger people have a much lower death rate if they become infected by the Xi virus, they almost certainly have lower risk of becoming infected at all.
#15112293
Drlee wrote:And, yet again, @Doug64 looks for any diversion to keep from making Republicans, who are running the government, take responsibility for the deaths they are directly causing.

The federal government is divided, and doesn't have police power in the states. The lockdowns, mask requirements, etc. happen at the state level. The only actions directly causing deaths involved putting infected elderly people who had stabilized back into assisted living or nursing homes, and that includes New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania--all run by Democrats. As a general rule, viruses don't get stopped by political parties.

Doug64 wrote:So now the Democrats still have three choices, but not quite the same choices as before. They can sue to prevent the executive orders from going into effect, which would have absolutely horrible optics. They can come to an agreement with the Republicans in the Senate on a bill that includes the executive orders, so giving the EOs legislative legitimacy (like Congress did for Abraham Lincoln's actions after the Civil War kicked off), which looks better than suing but still makes them look like they're following Trump's lead. Or they can continue to refuse to negotiate in good faith while complaining about the EOs, which leaves them looking about as bad as if they sued. They definitely shot themselves in the foot this time.

One of the interesting powers of the president is the power to forgive debts owed the federal government. So he could simply forgive payroll debts owed to the government. Democrats brought this power up as a way to buy young voters. Trump could steal Elizabeth Warren's student loan debt forgiveness issue by simply waiving student loan payments owed to the federal government too. That will really piss them off, because it was their idea.
#15112306
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Doug64

Yes, your bias is obvious.

If The WH was serious about the Trump virus, it would put together a public health system plan.

Trump virus? It looks like you are the one with the obvious bias. :lol:
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