Should COVID vaccine be mandatory? - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Should COVID vaccine be mandatory?

Yes
12
41%
No
13
45%
Other
4
14%
#15111869
You might have to have proof of vaccination to have your children attend school, or work, or apply for government assistance, etc.

Many places already have mandatory vaccinations for school children.
#15112005
The vaccination was always the predetermined solution to the problem of the coronavirus, just like the war on terror was always the predetermined solution to the 9/11 terror attacks.

Defeat COVID-19 by requiring vaccination for all. It's not un-American, it's patriotic.

Make vaccines free, don't allow religious or personal objections, and punish those who won't be vaccinated. They are threatening the lives of others.


First of all, this guy is just another political hack with TDS. He is using the virus as a pretext to allow the pharmaceutical industrial complex to control the population and punish those who do not go along with their psychopathic plans.





OPINION
Defeat COVID-19 by requiring vaccination for all. It's not un-American, it's patriotic.
Make vaccines free, don't allow religious or personal objections, and punish those who won't be vaccinated. They are threatening the lives of others.
Dr. Michael Lederman, Maxwell J. Mehlman and Dr. Stuart Youngner
Opinion contributors

To win the war against the novel coronavirus that has now killed over 158,000 people in this country, the only answer is compulsory vaccination — for all of us.

And while the measures that will be necessary to defeat the coronavirus will seem draconian, even anti-American to some, we believe that there is no alternative. Simply put, getting vaccinated is going to be our patriotic duty.

The reason: When an effective vaccine is available for COVID-19, it will only defeat the pandemic if it is widely used, creating “herd immunity.” It is important to note that, during an epidemic, there is no threshold above which the protection conferred by “herd immunity” cannot be improved. Thus, the more people who are immunized, the lower the risk for all of us, including those who are not vaccinated.

OPINION
Defeat COVID-19 by requiring vaccination for all. It's not un-American, it's patriotic.
Make vaccines free, don't allow religious or personal objections, and punish those who won't be vaccinated. They are threatening the lives of others.
Dr. Michael Lederman, Maxwell J. Mehlman and Dr. Stuart Youngner
Opinion contributors

To win the war against the novel coronavirus that has now killed over 158,000 people in this country, the only answer is compulsory vaccination — for all of us.

And while the measures that will be necessary to defeat the coronavirus will seem draconian, even anti-American to some, we believe that there is no alternative. Simply put, getting vaccinated is going to be our patriotic duty.

The reason: When an effective vaccine is available for COVID-19, it will only defeat the pandemic if it is widely used, creating “herd immunity.” It is important to note that, during an epidemic, there is no threshold above which the protection conferred by “herd immunity” cannot be improved. Thus, the more people who are immunized, the lower the risk for all of us, including those who are not vaccinated.
Severe penalties for non-compliance

Nor is there an alternative to vaccine-induced herd immunity in a pandemic. Relying on enough people becoming infected and then immune is dangerous, as exemplified by the Swedish experience where the COVID-19 mortality rate exceeds that of its more cautious neighbors. Broad induction of immunity in the population by immunization will be necessary to end this pandemic. In simple terms, a refusal to be vaccinated threatens the lives of others.

So here's what America must do when a vaccine is ready:

► Make vaccinations free and easily accessible.

► Exempt only those with medical contraindications to immunization. It is likely that more than one vaccine platform will prove effective (as was the case for polio vaccines) and, as a result, medical conditions that prohibit all COVID-19 vaccines will be rare.

► Do not honor religious objections. The major religions do not officially oppose vaccinations.

► Do not allow objections for personal preference, which violate the social contract.

How can government and society assure compliance with protective vaccines? Vaccine refusers could lose tax credits or be denied non-essential government benefits. Health insurers could levy higher premiums for those who by refusing immunization place themselves and others at risk, as is the case for smokers.

Unnerving toll:Sweden hoped herd immunity would curb COVID-19. Don't do what we did. It's not working.

Private businesses could refuse to employ or serve unvaccinated individuals, schools could refuse to allow unimmunized children to attend classes, public and commercial transit companies — airlines, trains and buses — could exclude refusers. Public and private auditoriums could require evidence of immunization for entry. The only legal limitation on government or private action is that it not be discriminatory, and it’s hard to see how discrimination would occur if vaccinations were free and accessible to all.


These are sick and dangerous individuals.
#15112016
The vaccination was always the predetermined solution to the problem of the coronavirus, just like the war on terror was always the predetermined solution to the 9/11 terror attacks.


Wrong. Not even close. Vaccine was always the tool of last resort.

Without a vaccine Skippy, many countries have stopped the epidemic in its tracks through good public health practices. The US is the only country in the world where the central government is doing nothing to stop the spread of the disease. The reason we are desperate for a vaccine is that the Republican party and its deeply stupid followers cannot be trusted to do even a few little things to save the lives of their family and friends. And why? Some shit they heard on Fox News about lib'rals.

Now the republicans are refusing to help Americans with aid from the federal level. The democrats passed the Heroes act three months ago and the republicans refused to even discuss it. Not Moscow Mitch refuses to take it up and says it is up to Trump to "negotiate". Trump wants over a billion for a new FBI building next to his hotel and refuses an eviction stop.

Own it Republicans. My independent voter friends are quietly furious with Trump already. Look for the end of the Republican party as a force. Even the Senate is in play.

I am a lifelong Republican conservative and I am appalled.
#15112020
Other.

The vaccine could pose health risks to people with certain conditions. People have the right to choose whether to get it or not. My parents would not want me to get vaccinated for fear that someday it could cause complications for me. Or I could suddenly die of lung failure while running, like 3 months later. I see why people are reluctant about vaccines, especially new ones.
#15112023
MistyTiger wrote:The vaccine could pose health risks to people with certain conditions.
Only your doctor is qualified to make that decision.

MistyTiger wrote:People have the right to choose whether to get it or not.
NO. They don't have a right to blatantly and ignorantly endanger the lives of others, and the health of the general population simply because they saw a Youtube video.

The reason the USA is suffering from Covid-19, so badly, is because of people thinking in a selfish and ignorant manner. Personal freedom exceeds the care you feel for others or society, and USA is paying for that stupidity and arrogance.

MistyTiger wrote:My parents would not want me to get vaccinated for fear that someday it could cause complications for me.
Your parents are very likely not medically qualified to make such a ridiculous decision.

MistyTiger wrote:Or I could suddenly die of lung failure while running, like 3 months later. I see why people are reluctant about vaccines, especially new ones.
They sound like they don't understand how vaccinations work. Would they prefer you got the disease? The chances of you suffering a serious side effect from a vaccine is far smaller than getting the actual disease.

MistyTiger wrote:I see why people are reluctant about vaccines, especially new ones.
Those people aren't educated about vaccines or are buying into all the lies and BS that dumbasses spread about them(i.e. anti-vaxxers). I am sure people had the same thought when Polio vaccines came out, but medical science has gotten far better, since then.

If I seem a bit harsh, it's because I see this kind of talk as detrimental, and it is not founded in reality or facts, but unreasoning fears, and ignorance.
#15112040
@Godstud My mother went to nursing school in Taiwan and worked as a nurse. She trained with doctors. She passed the nursing exam, NCLEX in the state of Massachuesetts years ago.

They are saying any vaccine developed now could be maybe 60% effective or less, which is not very effective.

A vaccine has the virus in it. What if it kills whoever is injected? Would I want to inject myself with a possible poison to protect strangers? Hmmm, even a psychotic murderer? Not sure.

I get the argument about herd immunity. But a life is a life, like if a woman wants an abortion, she should be able to get one. People are selfish by nature. Taking a vaccine that has not been observed and researched over 20 years is VERY risky. Like 20 years ago, doctors were pushing hormone therapy for menopausal women and now they are not because they understand the dangers now.

The best thing is to be careful around people and not be around crowds. A lot of people have awful habits. They need to tidy up and wash themselves more.

And no one can drag me to a vaccination clinic if I refuse to go. If I am a vegetable, sure, drag me wherever. But I have my will and I am being careful wherever I go, I have to be.

Edit: I heard researchers are investigating T cells and how T cells present in a person could help strengthen a person's immune system. I believe people should have a strong immune system, above all.

Right now, pharma is racing to a vaccine because they are seeing dollar signs. There is a big payout.
Last edited by MistyTiger on 08 Aug 2020 03:25, edited 1 time in total.
#15112044
I'd like to say I would be happier to accept a vaccine from Canada, the UK, Germany ETC then take one from the US.
#15112049
Drlee wrote:Wrong. Not even close. Vaccine was always the tool of last resort.


What is your source that vaccines were always the last resort?

They've been practicing making coronavirus vaccines for years. This is just one of the deranged coronakooks pushing "coronavirus" vaccines.

Image

Would you buy a vaccine from someone who looks like they should be in an insane asylum? Again, I maintain that these people are dangerous and should be removed from civil society.

Scientists were close to a coronavirus vaccine years ago. Then the money dried up.

Dr. Peter Hotez says he made the pitch to anyone who would listen. After years of research, his team of scientists in Texas had helped develop a vaccine to protect against a deadly strain of coronavirus. Now they needed money to begin testing it in humans.

But this was 2016. More than a decade had passed since the viral disease known as severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, had spread through China, killing more than 770 people. That disease, an earlier coronavirus similar to the one now sweeping the globe, was a distant memory by the time Hotez and his team sought funding to test whether their vaccine would work in humans.

"We tried like heck to see if we could get investors or grants to move this into the clinic," said Hotez, co-director of the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children's Hospital and dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston. "But we just could not generate much interest."

That was a big missed opportunity, according to Hotez and other vaccine scientists, who argue that SARS, and the Middle East respiratory syndrome, or MERS, of 2012, should have triggered major federal and global investments to develop vaccines in anticipation of future epidemics.

Instead, the SARS vaccine that Hotez's team created in collaboration with scientists at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston is sitting in a freezer, no closer to commercial production than it was four years ago.

"We could have had this ready to go and been testing the vaccine's efficacy at the start of this new outbreak in China," said Hotez, who believes the vaccine could provide cross-protection against the new coronavirus, which causes a respiratory disease known as COVID-19. "There is a problem with the ecosystem in vaccine development, and we've got to fix this."


The plan to develop a coronavirus vaccine PREDATED the current pandemic for crying out loud!

CONFIRMED: Doctor Arguing for Mandatory COVID-19 Vaccinations in USA Today is Bankrolled by Big Pharma

Image

One of the doctors who argued for mandatory vaccinations recently in a USA Today op/ed is being bankrolled by Big Pharma, creating a massive conflict of interest for the self-professed medical expert.

Dr. Michael Lederman co-wrote the op/ed titled, “Defeat COVID-19 by requiring vaccination for all. It’s not un-American, it’s patriotic,” which was published by the USA Today on Thursday.

“Broad induction of immunity in the population by immunization will be necessary to end this pandemic. In simple terms, a refusal to be vaccinated threatens the lives of others,” the doctors wrote, arguing that those who refuse to comply with vaccine mandates must be punished under the law.

Trending: Feckless Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler Admits ANTIFA Rioters Aren’t “Peaceful Protestors” As Mayhem Continues

The doctors also called for an end to the 4th Amendment of the Constitution by proposing an invasive federal vaccine tracking database: “A registry of immunization will be needed with names entered after immunization is completed… Thus, immunized persons will need to receive expiration date-stamped certification cards, which should be issued to all who are immunized in the country, whether here legally or not.”

Dr. Lederman’s ties with Big Pharma go back many years, as he has soaked up millions from pharmaceutical corporations to fund his medical research. He received $2.5 in grant money from Gilead Sciences in 2017 to study AIDS and HIV treatments. Back in 2014, Dr. Lederman and his fellow Case Western researchers received $12.7 million from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) headed by Dr. Anthony Fauci for other AIDS/HIV trials.

Right now, the NIAID is doing everything they can to get Big Pharma giants to produce a COVID-19 vaccine for mass distribution, even if it means skirting normal testing protocol. The NIAID has been performing relentless public relations for the pharmaceutical giant Moderna, a firm that stands to make billions from a mandatory vaccination regime.

The NIAID is under the jurisdiction of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), which has served as a particularly egregious example of the corrupt revolving door between the public and private sector. NIH researcher Gary Nabel left his influential role with the federal government to become chief scientific officer at pharmaceutical giant Sanofi in 2012. He boasted about how he took the corporate role to facilitate more collusion between a monolithic industry and the public officials tasked with regulating it.
#15112051
MistyTiger wrote:@Godstud My mother went to nursing school in Taiwan and worked as a nurse. She trained with doctors. She passed the nursing exam, NCLEX in the state of Massachuesetts years ago.

They are saying any vaccine developed now could be maybe 60% effective or less, which is not very effective.

A vaccine has the virus in it. What if it kills whoever is injected? Would I want to inject myself with a possible poison to protect strangers? Hmmm, even a psychotic murderer? Not sure.

I get the argument about herd immunity. But a life is a life, like if a woman wants an abortion, she should be able to get one. People are selfish by nature. Taking a vaccine that has not been observed and researched over 20 years is VERY risky. Like 20 years ago, doctors were pushing hormone therapy for menopausal women and now they are not because they understand the dangers now.

The best thing is to be careful around people and not be around crowds. A lot of people have awful habits. They need to tidy up and wash themselves more.

And no one can drag me to a vaccination clinic if I refuse to go. If I am a vegetable, sure, drag me wherever. But I have my will and I am being careful wherever I go, I have to be.

Not all vaccines are made with "live" (and I use in quotation because it is debatable whether viruses are alive or not, depends on definition), viable virus.
It is hard to keep track of all the vaccine companies and their claims nowadays here is an article from nature. Of the over 100+ possible candidates in "proposal" or some degree of trial, only 4 constitute "live inactivated vaccine".
Now, there is not to say that the "other types" of vaccines couldn't cause problems. Anaphylaxis for instance could be deadly and it could happen with any vaccine, but so it can with foods such as peanuts, tomato; insect bites, etc. They would go through a phase of testing and this would help identify any major, common side effects and/or dangers. Assuming there is no interference and/or major derailment by governments/bureaucracy/etc, the vaccines should with a high degree of certainty be safe and effective.
Now, we have seen how far some governments can go to maintain "appearance of competence" but in this case, I think it is going to be so obvious if they interfere and/or lie to the public (e.g. people keep dying despite being vaccinated) that I don't think they would risk the scandal. On the other hand... never bet against Trump not being stupid enough to do something.
I think if your doctor reviews the literature of whatever vaccine happens to be proposed at some point and recommends it, you should be fine.

On the other hand, by the time vaccines get it to the general public, there is a decent chance most of us caught it already unless you managed to live in a bubble. I think I'll certainly will if I have not so far. It is unclear if vaccines will be helpful if that is the case, but you could make an argument that it is unnecessary, especially if you have decent titters and/or if the vaccine is not particularly efficacious.

Sources:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01221-y
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41573-020-00073-5
#15112063
@maz What is your source that vaccines were always the last resort?


You posted a lot of shit. If your intention was to show that you know nothing about epidemiology you succeeded. It is best not to stand behind walls of someone else's text.

I will give you an explanation that even you could understand. (If you wanted to. And you don't.) I will put it into pain English.

The way to stop a pandemic is to stop the spread of the disease. Simple right? Why yes it is. Now. Unless you actually have one already a vaccine does not even figure into the response other than funding and facilitation of the research. That is simply a fact. Once you have a vaccine and you know how well it works (and early on we will not know that very well) then and only then can it be factored into the response.

So that leaves the following tools to fight the pandemic:

You protect people from possible infection. This is done by isolation, quarantine, and education on why and how to do this. Mandatory mask wearing, good hygiene, and physical distancing are the only way to do this. There is simply no other way. Testing is just a way to say, HEY YOU! With a mild disease it is possible that one might choose to do nothing. Sadly this is not a mild disease. It is a killer. (And it is a major source of lifelong disability in some of the survivors but we have not even begun to discuss that yet.)

So I don't know why you are rambling on about a vaccine. At this point when and IF we will get one, and an effective one to boot, is simply irrelevant. It does not matter. It is just a pie in the sky dream. Sure we fund the research and facilitate the trials. Maybe even spin up some factories to make bottles to put it in. And this, to the great surprise of everyone except epidemiologists is a really big deal. There is more. Syringes maybe. Even making supplies of the vaccines under testing on the outside chance that they might work, could be a thing. And this is all up to industry and government.

There is absolutely no public health action to be taken with regards to a vaccine except for some eggheads like myself to begin the discussion about how to use one when and if it becomes available. And even those discussions are vague and general because we do not know how effective or available this vapor ware will be. But then I digress.

The ONLY public health method for fighting a virus like this one....and pay attention now Maz this is a highly sophisticated medical practice....I say again for just to be sure you are paying attention...... the only way to fight this virus, as we speak, is to keep people from getting it on them and then in them.

Meanwhile back at the ranch doctors and pharma are looking for better treatments. Got that. But here is the absolutely only thing you can do to maybe keep from getting and possibly dying from this disease is the following:

Practice physical distancing.

This includes staying home except when it is absolutely necessary to go out and keeping people who might have become infected from coming into your house.

Wash your hands, face and body frequently and always when you come in from outside, touch anything or body from outside.

Wear a mask every time you leave your house and will be anywhere near other people. Bonus points for wearing a good one.

Absolutely stay away from crowds, even outdoor ones.

Disinfect environmental surfaces frequently and stuff you bring into you home always.

That is it MAZ. You can google some other shit but if you do all of these things you might not get it anytime soon. No guarantee.

The virus does not differentiate between left and right wing politics. It is just looking for a home and some cells to fuck. It does favor one kind of person though. There has been talk about how it likes type A blood. How it thrives in people who are taking ACE inhibitors (on again and off again) and if you are slammin' the proton pump inhibitors, you may as well put out a welcome mat. This may or may not be a thing. But do you know what really is a thing MAZ? The virus, first and foremost, likes stupid people. You do not have to be stupid to get it but you damn sure have to be stupid not to try to keep from getting it.

Ball is in your court.
#15112067
Drlee wrote:You posted a lot of shit. If your intention was to show that you know nothing about epidemiology you succeeded. It is best not to stand behind walls of someone else's text.

I will give you an explanation that even you could understand. (If you wanted to. And you don't.) I will put it into pain English.

Ball is in your court.


blah blah blah

You made a pretty wild claim, and now want THE SOURCE! Not something that you regurgitated from cable news.

Post the source (Science!) showing that vaccines were a last resort.
#15112068
MistyTiger wrote:@Godstud My mother went to nursing school in Taiwan and worked as a nurse. She trained with doctors. She passed the nursing exam, NCLEX in the state of Massachuesetts years ago.

They are saying any vaccine developed now could be maybe 60% effective or less, which is not very effective.

A vaccine has the virus in it. What if it kills whoever is injected? Would I want to inject myself with a possible poison to protect strangers? Hmmm, even a psychotic murderer? Not sure.

I get the argument about herd immunity. But a life is a life, like if a woman wants an abortion, she should be able to get one. People are selfish by nature. Taking a vaccine that has not been observed and researched over 20 years is VERY risky. Like 20 years ago, doctors were pushing hormone therapy for menopausal women and now they are not because they understand the dangers now.

The best thing is to be careful around people and not be around crowds. A lot of people have awful habits. They need to tidy up and wash themselves more.

And no one can drag me to a vaccination clinic if I refuse to go. If I am a vegetable, sure, drag me wherever. But I have my will and I am being careful wherever I go, I have to be.

Edit: I heard researchers are investigating T cells and how T cells present in a person could help strengthen a person's immune system. I believe people should have a strong immune system, above all.

Right now, pharma is racing to a vaccine because they are seeing dollar signs. There is a big payout.


There is a lot to dissect here, so I'll do it in point form:
1) Your mother's education is irrelevant, as she evidently has little knowledge about vaccines.

2) "They are saying vaccines will be only 60% effective"? Who is "they"? Are you talking about the morons on Youtube, who aren't doctors or epidemiologists? This sounds like a completely unscientific assessment.

3) Vaccines have always had a bit of the virus in them, but thinking that it's going to kill the people they vaccinate shows a very ignorant view of what vaccinations are. Read this. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conver ... cyP8bVtBFY

4) Herd immunity is gained when a large percentage of the population have received resistance to a disease, whether it's thru having had the disease, or a vaccination. Less than 2% of Americans have gotten Covid-19, with 150,000+ deaths. How would you like it if 70% of the population got Covid-19 with millions dead and still no herd immunity?

Vaccines weren't observed over 20 years when they first came out. They were administered as soon as they deemed they were safe enough. They go by the same procedures now, and there's no reason not to think that, unless you're buying into rubbish conspiracies supported by some people on Pofo or on Youtube.

5) Good diet, and exercise can make you stronger and able to resist a lot of diseases, and even help you survive the ahrsher ones, but it's not the equivalent of a vaccine.

6) They might not be able to "drag you to a vaccination center", but they can tell you to not come to work until you've had a vaccination. Would you give up your job simply because you didn't want to be vaccinated? Would you enjoy being unemployed and being socially irresponsible?

7) Big Pharma has more to gain from a treatment, and not a vaccine.

As for vaccines being big money:

Aren’t Vaccines Just Moneymakers for Pharmaceutical Companies?
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A popular myth is that vaccines are simply a way for pharmaceutical companies to make money. That is false. Vaccines are not huge profit-makers for pharmaceutical companies. In fact, these companies make their profits by selling drugs that treat diseases.

In comparison, the global total sales of all vaccines—for adults and children by all pharmaceutical companies that produce vaccines—was just $24 billion in one year. The $24 billion vaccine market seems large but represents only 2% to 3% of a trillion-dollar, worldwide pharmaceutical industry.

Another point of comparison is the global alternative medicine market. That market, which includes homeopathic remedies and various supplements, powders, and teas, is a $34 billion industry, even though only one-third of the treatments have been tested.

If pharmaceutical companies merely wanted to increase their profit margins, they would stop manufacturing vaccines and focus only on developing and selling drugs and alternative medicines.

http://www.boostoregon.org/arent-vaccin ... -companies


Also:
Vaccines Are Profitable, So What?
Yes, Big Pharma is making money from immunizations. But that doesn't mean anyone should skip the shots.

But that argument is historically unfounded. Not only do pediatricians and doctors often lose money on vaccine administration, it wasn't too long ago that the vaccine industry was struggling with slim profit margins and shortages. The Economist wrote that "for decades vaccines were a neglected corner of the drugs business, with old technology, little investment and abysmal profit margins. Many firms sold their vaccine divisions to concentrate on more profitable drugs."

In fact, vaccines were so unprofitable that some companies stopped making them altogether. In 1967, there were 26 vaccine manufactures. That number dropped to 17 by 1980. Ten years ago, the financial incentives to produce vaccines were so weak that there was growing concern that pharmaceutical companies were abandoning the vaccine business for selling more-profitable daily drug treatments. Compared with drugs that require daily doses, vaccines are only administered once a year or a lifetime. The pharmaceutical company Wyeth (which has since been acquired by Pfizer) reported that they stopped making the flu vaccine because the margins were so low.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... at/385214/
#15112071
@maz :roll: You don't need to be an epidemiologist to know the value of vaccines. Only idiots who listen to Youtube bloggers instead of doctors and scientists, think otherwise, and their opinions are worthless. They are based on ignorance, arrogance, and idiocy.
#15112091
I voted "no". At least for the time being.

It is true that Wuhan Pneumonia has worse effects than common flu, but unlike other contagious serious disease like tuberculosis, virus have a high mutation rate, and the vaccine probably needs to be changed a lot of times. Mandatory vaccine would induce huge resource expense.

I agree the government should vigorously encourage Wuhan Pneumonia vaccine should it come out, just like what they do to common flu vaccines, but this is slightly different from making it mandatory.
#15112128
Post the source (Science!) showing that vaccines were a last resort.


:roll:

You are simply not educated enough to understand the simple explanation I gave. I need not waste any more time on you.

Also, if vaccines are really 60% effective then vaccinating everyone would leave 60% of the population immunized. Sounds like a good thing to me.


It is a very good thing. I would be thrilled by a vaccine which is that effective. Particularly if you understand what the word "effective" means to an epidemiologist as opposed to a doctor.

It is possible, and even likely that a vaccine that is 60% effective at giving immunity from infection would drop the basic reproduction rate to near or below 1 in which case the disease would be quite manageable.

Further. If you can immunize the most vulnerable first you can drop the CFR dramatically.

Then there is the case of partial immunity. It could be that this vaccine may not protect everyone but that some of the 40% who do not get absolute immunity may still experience a decreased severity of infection should they be exposed. This would be a good thing too.
#15112187
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Vaccine Expert Has A Grim Prediction Of What Coronavirus Will Do ‘For Years And Years’

Vaccine expert Dr. Peter Hotez on Friday predicted the coronavirus will continue to plague the United States “for years and years, even after vaccines are out and we get people vaccinated.”

Hotez, the director of the Texas Children’s Hospital Center for Vaccine Development, told MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace that COVID-19 in the U.S. was “still spiraling out of control,” noting recent forecasts that 300,000 people could die from the disease by December.

The virus has now killed more than 160,000 people nationwide.

Hotez, who has long rejected and contested the anti-vaccine movement, noted how Russian intelligence officers have reportedly been part of a disinformation campaign to sow doubt about vaccines in development for the virus.


LOL the Russians are hacking our nations vaccine response :lol:

We know guys like Fauci and Hotez are out and out frauds and are just making up whatever as they go along, but let's pretend that Hotez knows what he's talking about. What the fuck is the point of getting vaccines when it won't stop whatever coronavirus he's talking about?

Anti-science campaigners were fueling further deaths with their stances against social distancing and the wearing of face masks to mitigate its spread, Hotez argued.

He warned the White House will step up its attacks on scientists, as it did with Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who has countered the government’s narrative on the crisis.

“So, put your tray-table up in the upright and locked position. It’s going to be a very tough fall, I’m afraid,” said Hotez.

The coronavirus could still be contained, Hotez claimed, but that would require “leadership at the federal level, and there was never an interest or curiosity for the federal government to lead this,” a reference to Trump’s passing of the buck to governors.

The White House’s failure to properly advocate for face masks, support contact tracing and introduce more lockdowns to quell outbreaks “is why we have the world’s worst COVID-19 epidemic and it’s still growing,” he said.

Trump for months downplayed the risk of the illness and later pushed for the premature reopening of schools and businesses, which many pundits claim was a ploy to get the economy back on track ahead of the 2020 election.

“Sometimes we talk about it as though it’s the past and the worst is over. The worst is yet to come,” Hotez concluded. “We’re going to double the number of deaths over the next few months and now we know it’s not just deaths. We’re seeing long-term injury to the lungs, to the vascular system, to the heart, neurologic deficits, cognitive deficits. This will plague the country for years and years, even after vaccines are out and we get people vaccinated.”


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I am glad that the people pushing vaccines as well as the idea of forced vaccinations are the same people who are running around with corrupt politicians and convicted sex traffickers.
#15112202
We know guys like Fauci and Hotez are out and out frauds and are just making up whatever as they go along, but let's pretend that Hotez knows what he's talking about. What the fuck is the point of getting vaccines when it won't stop whatever coronavirus he's talking about?



Tell you what sport. Don't get vaccinated. You can follow your own lights on this because you are so much more qualified than either of these folks.

I am going to get vaccinated at the first chance I get. But don't worry about me Maz. I will be fine. That is if Trump's moronic followers don't kill me first. They are trying to kill as many people as they can.
#15112207
Godstud wrote:There is a lot to dissect here, so I'll do it in point form:
1) Your mother's education is irrelevant, as she evidently has little knowledge about vaccines.

2) "They are saying vaccines will be only 60% effective"? Who is "they"? Are you talking about the morons on Youtube, who aren't doctors or epidemiologists? This sounds like a completely unscientific assessment.

3) Vaccines have always had a bit of the virus in them, but thinking that it's going to kill the people they vaccinate shows a very ignorant view of what vaccinations are. Read this. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conver ... cyP8bVtBFY

4) Herd immunity is gained when a large percentage of the population have received resistance to a disease, whether it's thru having had the disease, or a vaccination. Less than 2% of Americans have gotten Covid-19, with 150,000+ deaths. How would you like it if 70% of the population got Covid-19 with millions dead and still no herd immunity?

Vaccines weren't observed over 20 years when they first came out. They were administered as soon as they deemed they were safe enough. They go by the same procedures now, and there's no reason not to think that, unless you're buying into rubbish conspiracies supported by some people on Pofo or on Youtube.

5) Good diet, and exercise can make you stronger and able to resist a lot of diseases, and even help you survive the ahrsher ones, but it's not the equivalent of a vaccine.

6) They might not be able to "drag you to a vaccination center", but they can tell you to not come to work until you've had a vaccination. Would you give up your job simply because you didn't want to be vaccinated? Would you enjoy being unemployed and being socially irresponsible?

7) Big Pharma has more to gain from a treatment, and not a vaccine.

As for vaccines being big money:

Aren’t Vaccines Just Moneymakers for Pharmaceutical Companies?
Image
A popular myth is that vaccines are simply a way for pharmaceutical companies to make money. That is false. Vaccines are not huge profit-makers for pharmaceutical companies. In fact, these companies make their profits by selling drugs that treat diseases.

In comparison, the global total sales of all vaccines—for adults and children by all pharmaceutical companies that produce vaccines—was just $24 billion in one year. The $24 billion vaccine market seems large but represents only 2% to 3% of a trillion-dollar, worldwide pharmaceutical industry.

Another point of comparison is the global alternative medicine market. That market, which includes homeopathic remedies and various supplements, powders, and teas, is a $34 billion industry, even though only one-third of the treatments have been tested.

If pharmaceutical companies merely wanted to increase their profit margins, they would stop manufacturing vaccines and focus only on developing and selling drugs and alternative medicines.

http://www.boostoregon.org/arent-vaccin ... -companies


Also:
Vaccines Are Profitable, So What?
Yes, Big Pharma is making money from immunizations. But that doesn't mean anyone should skip the shots.

But that argument is historically unfounded. Not only do pediatricians and doctors often lose money on vaccine administration, it wasn't too long ago that the vaccine industry was struggling with slim profit margins and shortages. The Economist wrote that "for decades vaccines were a neglected corner of the drugs business, with old technology, little investment and abysmal profit margins. Many firms sold their vaccine divisions to concentrate on more profitable drugs."

In fact, vaccines were so unprofitable that some companies stopped making them altogether. In 1967, there were 26 vaccine manufactures. That number dropped to 17 by 1980. Ten years ago, the financial incentives to produce vaccines were so weak that there was growing concern that pharmaceutical companies were abandoning the vaccine business for selling more-profitable daily drug treatments. Compared with drugs that require daily doses, vaccines are only administered once a year or a lifetime. The pharmaceutical company Wyeth (which has since been acquired by Pfizer) reported that they stopped making the flu vaccine because the margins were so low.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... at/385214/


You can discredit my mother's education, but she has been educated. She understands that there are always doubts and what ifs in the medical field. Not every disease has a cure. Not all patients survive treatment. It is so important to have healthy habits, wash one's hands and body during the day, and avoid unhealthy situations like huge crowds.

I find it offensive that you assume that I am binging on YouTube videos from morons. I am tuning into mainstream news sources. I was raised to be skeptical about claims made by people who think a problem can be easily remedied. Even if a vaccine is very effective, like 70%, does that mean we can return to having shoddy hygiene and coughing in everyone's faces? I will keep masks with me for years and I will be very careful with cleaning myself and surfaces for the rest of my life.

Doctors do not know everything. Even if a cancer patient undergoes chemo and radiation treatment, a doctor cannot say that the patient will definitely recover and the cancer will never return.

I like Fauci's attitude. He is being cautious and urging all to be careful. Even after phase 3, the work is not done. The problem is not solved. I have a source. There are no guarantees. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/07/coronav ... great.html

And pharma execs are getting nice payouts for vaccines.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/corpor ... g-n1235022

If my employers want me to get vaccinated, I would consider it. But I would not agree until I talked to my doctor and thought it over.
Last edited by MistyTiger on 08 Aug 2020 23:38, edited 1 time in total.
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