Blast in Beirut, Lebanon - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15111980
150 deaths.

It would be interesting to know whose real estate got blown away and their insurance policies.
#15111984
Patrickov wrote:You are right that I have been a bit nit-picky. I think I wouldn't have stepped in had that post of yours not been of similar purpose.




As said in another post, I was confused why the French President went there and was welcomed by locals.


You are correct about my interpretation of the word scapegoat.

As for why Macron went there, well there are several reasons:

1) Macron is a president in a democratic society whos prospects are uncertain. So he needs to look presidential in the eyes of the people and this is a very good opportunity. He knew exactly how he will be recived with the aid that he is bringing and all of the current sentiment in the country.

2) Little known fact is that the French have the largest colonial empire right now. Most people do not understand that. Most of the countries in Eastern Africa and Northern Africa are under full or semi French influence up to Nigeria and may be even Nigeria. May be egypt being the only exception. It goes to a lesser extent for former French holding in the middle east. So him visiting french "sphere" and assisting it reasserts confidence for the whole sphere that the French are "Benevolent" of sorts.

3) As far as i heard. His ego is pretty big and he likes to stroke it from time to time. He doesn't show it in public though so most people are unaware of this.
By Rich
#15111986
Oxymoron wrote:Eat a Dick you Nazi fuck

Typical response I'd expect from fascistic right-man. No argument so they engage in personal insults.

It is doubtful that any poster is more anti Nazi than me. I have repeatedly stated that I supported Brtian and Frances declaration of war against Nazi Germany in 1939, in fact that it should have been five months earlier when Hitler occupied rCzechoslovakia and that regime change as well as withdrawal form rCzechoslovakia should have been explicit peace demands. I have also argued that Hitler should have been sentenced to death by act of parliament. Although I don't think the amount of resources put into Britain's Strategic bomber force was money well spent, given that it had been spent I support the attacks against German cities including the fire-bombing of German cities in support of those peace demands (just not in pursuit of unconditional surrender).

I would like September 3rd turned into a special world celebration day where the Empires of Britain and France would be glorified and the democracies that didn't declare against Nazi Germany, Eire, the United States, Switzerland etc could issue an apology for leaving us to fight the battle for humanity on our own.

I have never at any point supported or condoned the Nazi thuggery against Jews, whether religious or racial Jews, prior to Hitler being made chancellor and I don't support the "Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service" or the Nuremberg race Laws, let alone any of the later more radical / extreme measures. I have had one girl friend of Jewish decent. I have no children by women of Jewish decent, but I would have no problem if all my children were with women of Jewish descent.

I had the primary Jewish scriptures shoved down my throat as a child, albeit in an English Christian translation. There is no doubting the extreme hateful racism and bigotry of the founders of the Jewish religion. I have no animus against people of Jewish decent. I wouldn't even be bothered by people practising Orthodox Judaism as long as the Klu Klux Klan, Hindu fundamentalists and Mormons have the same right to practice. Any hatred of Jews was preceded by Jewish hated of Gentiles. This is shown explicitly in the Jews own sacred scriptures. By the words of the Jewish scriptures Jewish hatred of Gentiles is the oldest still existing hatred. The Jews were not some special let alone innocent victims in either the Ancient or the Mediaeval worlds.
#15111989
Oxymoron wrote:
Eat a Dick you Nazi fuck



Rich wrote:
I wouldn't even be bothered by people practising Orthodox Judaism as long as the Klu Klux Klan, Hindu fundamentalists and Mormons have the same right to practice. Any hatred of Jews was preceded by Jewish hated of Gentiles. This is shown explicitly in the Jews own sacred scriptures. By the words of the Jewish scriptures Jewish hatred of Gentiles is the oldest still existing hatred. The Jews were not some special let alone innocent victims in either the Ancient or the Mediaeval worlds.



This is why -- you want to portray history as all being level-playing-field, when in reality Jews have been severely *persecuted* by the Western imperial hegemonic powers. You're trying to make all sides sound relatively *neutral*, and they're *not*. Then you characterize the oppressed Jews as being the initially 'hateful' party. The state of Israel didn't exist until the 20th century, and that's a Britain-blessed *nation-state*, and not the Jewish diaspora itself.


Rich wrote:
Typical response I'd expect from fascistic right-man. No argument so they engage in personal insults.



Countering fascist sentiment, as from you, doesn't make one fascistic -- it makes one *anti-fascist*, which is on the *leftist* side of the political spectrum.
#15111993
The explosion happened in section 12 of the port.

Hezbollah controls sections 9 through 12.

Port gate 12 is called the Fatima gate.

It's a well-known fact that Hezbollah keeps ammunition and missiles along with other materials in storages near civilians populations, including in both the port and the airport.
The hanger in question was flagged by multiple intelligence agencies in the past as ammunition storage for Hezbollah.

Hezbollah has a long history of using sodium nitrates in attacks with similar explosions happening in Syria in the past few months.

Hezbollah holds full responsibility of the explosion and the disaster as they're the ones who chose to store highly explosive materials near civilian areas, regardless of the cause of the explosion.

If anyone wants to start spewing bullshit and blaming anyone other than Hezbollah, imagen your government decided to store ICBMs or bombs or ammunitions right next to your house all while being at war and knowing full well they could be attacked or an incident could take place, you'll blame your government first because they're the ones who put you and your family at risk.


For anyone sympathetic to Hezbollah, congrats, whatever left of the Lebanese Shia population supporting the Dahieh rat are now turning against him. Your beloved Hezbollah is on its way out and the Covid-19 epidemic wont save him now.
#15111995
@JohnRawls
Now here is the reality though. Lebanons regime has been on the brink of collapse and change even last year. With this happening it only highlighted the problems within the Lebanese society: incompetence, corruption, and abuse of business by structures like tribes or hezbollah etc.

The tribes have only went independent due to the state forgetting about Baalbek completely, that has shifted since last october and the tribes are standing with the people and the army.
Only Hezbollah and corrupt politicians are left to be rid of now.

This shows that the French mandate is being remembered kindly nowadays compared to the current independent rule.

True.
Majority of the population views France in a very positive way and would welcome a French intervention if it came to it.

The better question is why did Lebanon not use Israel as a scapegoat anyways.

Hezbollah has been trying to do so, almost all Hezbollah media and social media figures have been floating the Israeli attack theory in the past days. It, however, isn't working since everyone is putting the blame directly on Hezbollah for putting such materials, in these quantities, right next to civilian areas.

As for your conspiracy theory. Even if they blame Israel for political reasons then Hezbollah is just going to have some minor skirmishes at best. Or fire some rockets. There is no realistic way that Iran or Lebanon can face Israel in a war. Israel will probably win since Lebanon has a border with Israel while Iran does not. Otherwise, if even some miracle happens, US will just step in. All sides realise this so no war is going to happen. Lebanon and Iran do not have a way to fight Israel in the open field so at best they can use guerilla like tactics. May be Iran can if Israel directly invades Iranian territory but Israel doesn't have a border nor is it even interested in directly invading Iran itself.

If Israel decided to engage militarly, considering the current trend in public view, expressed both by media figures in the opposition as well as by the general public on social media, the Israeli army will be welcomed with flowers and rice as has happened in the 80s.

@ckaihatsu
I assure you, almost no one in Lebanon gives a damn about Palestine anymore.
As far as most people are concerned, Hamas is with Hezbollah.
Lebanese people, in majority, want to kick out Hezbollah and turn to full neutrality.


@Patrickov
Innocence (and thus scapegoat) here is strictly about the event itself.

Only if you can prove Israel's involvement in Lebanon is directly responsible for the blast that Israel can be said as "not innocent".

Even if it was an Israeli attack, everyone is still blaming Hezbollah for storing such materials in the port near civilian areas.
If you followed Lebanese media spheres in the past days, you'll know that Hezbollah already tried to float the idea of an Israeli airstrike, even spreading rumors that there was an Israeli aircraft heard flying around on low altitude.
#15111997
anasawad wrote:
The explosion happened in section 12 of the port.

Hezbollah controls sections 9 through 12.

Port gate 12 is called the Fatima gate.

It's a well-known fact that Hezbollah keeps ammunition and missiles along with other materials in storages near civilians populations, including in both the port and the airport.
The hanger in question was flagged by multiple intelligence agencies in the past as ammunition storage for Hezbollah.

Hezbollah has a long history of using sodium nitrates in attacks with similar explosions happening in Syria in the past few months.

Hezbollah holds full responsibility of the explosion and the disaster as they're the ones who chose to store highly explosive materials near civilian areas, regardless of the cause of the explosion.

If anyone wants to start spewing bullshit and blaming anyone other than Hezbollah, imagen your government decided to store ICBMs or bombs or ammunitions right next to your house all while being at war and knowing full well they could be attacked or an incident could take place, you'll blame your government first because they're the ones who put you and your family at risk.


For anyone sympathetic to Hezbollah, congrats, whatever left of the Lebanese Shia population supporting the Dahieh rat are now turning against him. Your beloved Hezbollah is on its way out and the Covid-19 epidemic wont save him now.



So then who counters the IDF?



The 2006 Lebanon War, also called the 2006 Israel–Hezbollah War[47] and known in Lebanon as the July War[2] (Arabic: حرب تموز‎, Ḥarb Tammūz) and in Israel as the Second Lebanon War (Hebrew: מלחמת לבנון השנייה‎, Milhemet Levanon HaShniya),[48] was a 34-day military conflict in Lebanon, Northern Israel and the Golan Heights. The principal parties were Hezbollah paramilitary forces and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). The conflict started on 12 July 2006, and continued until a United Nations-brokered ceasefire went into effect in the morning on 14 August 2006, though it formally ended on 8 September 2006 when Israel lifted its naval blockade of Lebanon. Due to unprecedented Iranian military support to Hezbollah before and during the war, some consider it the first round of the Iran–Israel proxy conflict, rather than a continuation of the Arab–Israeli conflict.[5]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War
#15111999
@ckaihatsu
Peace and neutrality.
Both Lebanese and Israeli people want peace.

Also, Lebanon can have its own army and defend itself. The bulk of the weapons are held by the tribes and tribal leaders have already stated multiple times they'll hand everything to the state and join forces if they can ensure reforms and a solution to corruption.

Only left is removing Hezbollah along with Syria and Khamenei loyalists in general.
#15112002
anasawad wrote:
@ckaihatsu
Peace and neutrality.
Both Lebanese and Israeli people want peace.

Also, Lebanon can have its own army and defend itself. The bulk of the weapons are held by the tribes and tribal leaders have already stated multiple times they'll hand everything to the state and join forces if they can ensure reforms and a solution to corruption.

Only left is removing Hezbollah along with Syria and Khamenei loyalists in general.



Now *you're* trying to make it sound like there's neutral, even-handed *equivalence* everywhere.

When is the Israeli state going to stop practicing *apartheid* -- !



Israel and the apartheid analogy is criticism of Israel charging that Israel has practiced a system akin to apartheid against Arabs and Palestinians in its occupation of the West Bank.[1] Some commentators extend the analogy to include treatment of Arab citizens of Israel, describing their citizenship status as second-class.[9] The analogy has been asserted by critics of Israel including scholars, United Nations investigators,[10] the African National Congress (ANC),[11] human rights groups critical of Israeli policy[12][13] and by several Israeli former politicians.[14] Proponents of the analogy say that "a system of control" in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, including the ID system; Israeli settlements; separate roads for Israeli and Palestinian citizens around many of these settlements; Israeli military checkpoints; marriage law; the West Bank barrier; use of Palestinians as cheaper labour; Palestinian West Bank exclaves; and inequities in infrastructure, legal rights (e.g. "Enclave law"), and access to land and resources between Palestinians and Israeli residents in the Israeli-occupied territories, resemble some aspects of the South African apartheid regime, and that elements of Israel's occupation constitute forms of colonialism and of apartheid, contrary to international law.[15]



Criminal law

In 2007, the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination reported that Palestinians and Israeli settlers in the occupied territories are subject to different criminal laws, leading to longer detention and harsher punishments for Palestinians than for Israelis for the same offenses.[136] Amnesty International has reported that in the West Bank, Israeli settlers and soldiers who engage in abuses against Palestinians, including unlawful killings, enjoy "impunity" from punishment and are rarely prosecuted. However Palestinians detained by Israeli security forces may be imprisoned for prolonged periods of time, and reports of their torture and other ill-treatment are not credibly investigated.[137][138][139]

John Dugard has compared Israeli imprisonment of Palestinians to policies of Apartheid-era South Africa, saying "Apartheid's security police practiced torture on a large scale. So do the Israeli security forces. There were many political prisoners on Robben Island but there are more Palestinian political prisoners in Israeli jails."[135]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_an ... id_analogy
#15112003
@ckaihatsu
Now *you're* trying to make it sound like there's neutral, even-handed *equivalence* everywhere.

Israel was invited in during the 80s, when it outstayed its welcome and turned hostile, we kicked it out.
Same goes for the Syrians.

The bulk of the Lebanese weapons are in Baalbek, i.e. the tribes. The only ones threatening Lebanese sovereignty are the traitors from within. The mountains are more than enough to keep outsiders at bay.

When is the Israeli state going to stop practicing *apartheid* -- !

The Palestinians are not our cause, let the 13 million Palestinian living right next to Israel worry about that.
As far as we're concerned, Israel has been pretty tamed even during its military presence in the south, to the point that the south was built while Israeli troops were around.
#15112006
anasawad wrote:
@ckaihatsu

Israel was invited in during the 80s, when it outstayed its welcome and turned hostile, we kicked it out.



Source, please.

This is what comes to mind:



The Sabra and Shatila massacre (also known as the Sabra and Chatila massacre)[4][5] was the killing of between 460 and 3,500 civilians, mostly Palestinians and Lebanese Shiites, by a militia close to the Kataeb Party (also called Phalange), a predominantly Christian Lebanese right-wing party, in the Sabra neighborhood and the adjacent Shatila refugee camp in Beirut, Lebanon. From approximately 18:00 on 16 September to 08:00 on 18 September 1982, a widespread massacre was carried out by the militia in plain sight of the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF), its ally.[6][7][8][9] The Phalanges were ordered by the IDF to clear Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) fighters out of Sabra and Shatila, as part of the IDF maneuvering into West Beirut. The IDF received reports of some of the Phalange atrocities in Sabra and Shatila but did not take any action to prevent or stop the massacre.[10]

The massacre was presented as retaliation for the assassination of newly elected Lebanese president Bachir Gemayel, the leader of the Lebanese Kataeb Party. It was wrongly assumed by the Phalangists that Palestinian militants had carried out the assassination.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and ... a_massacre



---


anasawad wrote:
Same goes for the Syrians.



Are you referring to *this*:



The establishment of the state of Israel and the displacement of a hundred thousand Palestinian refugees to Lebanon during the 1948 and 1967 exoduses contributed to shifting the demographic balance in favor of the Muslim population. The Cold War had a powerful disintegrative effect on Lebanon, which was closely linked to the polarization that preceded the 1958 political crisis, since Maronites sided with the West while leftist and pan-Arab groups sided with Soviet-aligned Arab countries.[10]

Fighting between Maronite and Palestinian forces (mainly from the Palestine Liberation Organization) began in 1975, then Leftist, pan-Arabist and Muslim Lebanese groups formed an alliance with the Palestinians.[11] During the course of the fighting, alliances shifted rapidly and unpredictably. Furthermore, foreign powers, such as Israel and Syria, became involved in the war and fought alongside different factions.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War



---


anasawad wrote:
The bulk of the Lebanese weapons are in Baalbek, i.e. the tribes. The only ones threatening Lebanese sovereignty are the traitors from within. The mountains are more than enough to keep outsiders at bay.


The Palestinians are not our cause, let the 13 million Palestinian living right next to Israel worry about that.



So your only concern is about the nation of Lebanon, while *apartheid* social conditions continue on in Palestine.

I'll remind that the U.S. had a *civil rights movement* to overturn institutionalized racist social practices, and South Africa's anti-apartheid politics received *international support*:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_rights_movement



Despite opposition both within and outside the country, the government legislated for a continuation of apartheid. The security forces cracked down on internal dissent, and violence became widespread, with anti-apartheid organisations such as the African National Congress (ANC), the Azanian People's Organisation (AZAPO), and the Pan-Africanist Congress (PAC) carrying out guerrilla warfare[60] and urban sabotage.[61] The three rival resistance movements also engaged in occasional inter-factional clashes as they jockeyed for domestic influence.[62] Apartheid became increasingly controversial, and several countries began to boycott business with the South African government because of its racial policies. These measures were later extended to international sanctions and the divestment of holdings by foreign investors.[63][64]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa#Republic



So, again, why are you calling for a *demobilization* of Hezbollah when they have a *track record* of countering the IDF, which backs Israel's social policy of *apartheid* against the Palestinians?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War


---


anasawad wrote:
As far as we're concerned, Israel has been pretty tamed even during its military presence in the south, to the point that the south was built while Israeli troops were around.



What about the Golan Heights?



The population of the Golan Heights prior to the 1967 Six-Day War has been estimated between 130,000 and 145,000, including 17,000 Palestinian refugees registered with UNRWA.[177] Between 80,000[102] and 130,000[103] Syrians fled or were driven from the Heights during the Six-Day War and around 7,000 remained in the Israeli-held territory in six villages: Majdal Shams, Mas'ade, Buq'ata, Ein Qiniyye, Ghajar and Shayta.[103]

Israel demolished over one hundred Syrian villages and farms in the Golan Heights.[178][179] After the demolitions, the lands were given to Israeli settlers.[180]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Hei ... n_villages
#15112011
@ckaihatsu
Source, please.

You're already reading up on the civil war, read the part regarding the Israeli invasion.
Not only did the president officially invited Israel, but everyone up to Shia clerics sat down with the Israelis to fight the PLO and Islamists.

Are you referring to *this*:

What does this have to do with the Syrian military presence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War

Ooh good, so you did come across the part where president Jmail invited the Israelis and AMAL movement welcomed them.

So your only concern is about the nation of Lebanon, while *apartheid* social conditions continue on in Palestine.

Yes, my main concern is Lebanon. Everything else is secondary and irrelevant at this time.

I'll remind that the U.S. had a *civil rights movement* to overturn institutionalized racist social practices, and South Africa's anti-apartheid politics received *international support*:

Irrelevant.

So, again, why are you calling for a *demobilization* of Hezbollah when they have a *track record* of countering the IDF, which backs Israel's social policy of *apartheid* against the Palestinians?

They don't.
Hezbollah today is not the same resistence that existed in the 90s or in 2006.
Now it's just a group of gangs, recruited criminals seeking to escape justice, and mercenaries.

What about the Golan Heights?

The Druze in the Golan heights don't want to return to Syria.
And the whole subject is irrelevant to Lebanese-Israeli relations.
#15112022
@anasawad

Good posts. It clarified things that i was perhaps a bit unsure of and it seems i understand the picture more or less clearly.

Although if you REALLY want to modernise the country and the economy then you will have to do something with the tribes. While it is a helpful factor right now, it will be a detrimental factor in the long term. Tribes will bread corruption and incompetence in the end, the same way your current government does. The difference is just how it is/will be done and that currently tribes just look better than your government.(This doesn't mean that they don't bread corruption and incompetence though) While Tribes might look more competent right now, if you are going to try to implement real change than some kind of change will need to happen in the structure or participation of the tribes in both economical and political aspects of life. This is really important because otherwise you will either reach the same corrupt/incompetent government or a larger political fracture within the country along the tribal lines.
#15112036














To counter some of anasawad's opinions:

There is no evidence Hezbollah are responsible for this explosion and they didn't control port 12. Just as there is none that Israel is responsible, despite the latter benefiting from this and the former not. Both groups deny any responsibility. If you want to claim X is responsible, you need to prove that.

Syrians in the Golan Heights do not welcome their Israeli occupiers. Israel tried out an election there 2 years ago and were basically told to fuck off. In what world have those invaded and occupied welcomed their oppressors? Has it ever happened in history? :?:

As some in Lebanon blame Hezbollah, there is great sentiment there that Israel is responsible for the explosion but are leaning to the idea it was accidental, in that it was an attack on weapons without the knowledge of their danger. Israel has a history of attacking weapons depots of countries it considers enemies as it has been doing in Syria every other week as well as in Lebanon, so this being a thing isn't so far-fetched. But again, we have no evidence for who is responsible, if this explosion was not due to negligence.

Just because you don't care about Palestinians, doesn't mean other Lebanese people don't. The fact that Lebanon has so many Palestinian (and Syrian) refugees suggests people in Lebanon care about them.

There were protests against Macron during his visit to Beirut too.
#15112055
Responding to a poster who discreetly mentionned the likelihood of Israel being the source of the destruction, JohnRawls wrote:You are an anti-semite the same way as the people you supported in Labour. You don't bat an eye at spreading rumours and linking Israel AND the Jews to any negative things happening in the world.


We get it. You want to protect Israel by acting shocked and awed by somewhat logical conclusions.

Here's an article by an Israeli who ALSO suspects Israel. He mentions the very relevant Dahiya Doctrine, a policy that Israel has that swears to target infrastructure violently. It's named after a neighborhood of Beirut that Israel destroyed in a bombing campaign not so long ago.

Gideon Levy wrote: ...Official Israel presented itself as shocked at the disaster that struck its neighbor, Lebanon, yesterday. Almost everyone put on a sorrowful face. ...
...
As if all this beneficence was not enough, the mayor of Tel Aviv ordered the municipality building illuminated with the colors of the Lebanese flag. Words fail. All past hatred has been set aside, Israel is now a friend in need to its suffering neighbor. Maybe it was Tu B’Av, the holiday of love, marked yesterday. But still, a vague memory threatens to spoil the how-beautiful-we-are party, which we love so much around here.

Was it not that same defense minister that only last week threatened that same Lebanon with destruction of infrastructure? Didn’t the prime minister also threaten Lebanon? And how does destruction of infrastructure look in Lebanon? Just like what was seen in Lebanon on Tuesday. The sound of thunder shook the city, black smoke billowed over it, destruction and devastation, civilian blood spilled, 4,000 injured at hospital doors, as described in horror by the ambassador of a European country in Beirut, who had previously served in Israel. She was injured Tuesday in the blast and was in shock.

Half of Israel and the entire IDF General Staff know how to recite the acclaimed Dahiya Doctrine. Every second politician has threatened to carry it out. That is our language with Lebanon and Gaza. It’s the doctrine espoused by the Israeli Carl von Clausewitz, former chief of staff Gadi Eisenkot, the current hope of the Israeli left, when he was chief of the Northern Command.

And what is this sophisticated doctrine? It’s the use of disproportionate, unbridled force against infrastructure, the sowing of destruction and shedding of as much blood as possible. “Flattening” – to teach the enemy a lesson “once and for all.” The IDF has tried this more than once in the past, in Lebanon and in Gaza, and it was a dizzying success story. It looks just like what was seen in Beirut on Tuesday.

Not a week had passed since Israel threatened to destroy infrastructure in Lebanon if Hezbollah dared avenge the killing of one of its fighters in a limited military action on the border, and Israel the destroyer becomes Israel the merciful. Would you accept humanitarian aid from such a country? Is there a more sickening show of hypocrisy?

When Israel demolished Dahiya and other neighborhoods in Beirut, the Tel Aviv Municipality building was not illuminated with the colors of the Lebanese flag. When Israel killed thousands of innocent women and children, old and young, in Gaza during the criminal Operation Cast Lead and Operation Protective Edge, the municipality was not lit up in the colors of the Palestinian flag. But on Wednesday we were all so humane, so Lebanese for a moment. Until the next Dahiya.
...
#15112062
@skinster
There is no evidence Hezbollah are responsible for this explosion and they didn't control port 12.

The people just arrested over the case, Badri Daher, Rafeq Mer'i, hassan Qraitem, along with 16 others, almost all are appointed by Hezbollah or its allies.
Hezbollah controls the security in the port and has its own security.
The gate is even named by Hezbollah, The Fatima gate.

It's so much of a given that Hezbollah controls that section of the port that whenever the media discusses it they just skip over this part because everyone knows that's under Hezbollah's control.

And regarding the material, it's their material. They've been using it before, they threatened to use it, and multiple intellegince agencies flagged that specific location and hangers regarding it.
Whether it's an attack or an accident, they're the ones who put it there and hold full responsibility.

As some in Lebanon blame Hezbollah, there is great sentiment there that Israel is responsible for the explosion

That "great" sentiment is only because you choose to ignore everyone in Lebanon and focus on those handfuls of Hezbollah and Baath propagandists and what they're saying.

Israel has a history of attacking weapons depots of countries it considers enemies as it has been doing in Syria every other week as well as in Lebanon, so this being a thing isn't so far-fetched. But again, we have no evidence for who is responsible, if this explosion was not due to negligence.

Regardless of the cause, Hezbollah holds full responsibility as they're the ones who put it there.

Just because you don't care about Palestinians, doesn't mean other Lebanese people don't. The fact that Lebanon has so many Palestinian (and Syrian) refugees suggests people in Lebanon care about them.

Everyone is sick and tired of hearing about Palestine, it's an excuse.
And if you actually did follow on this issue, you'd know most parties and factions want them out.

There were protests against Macron during his visit to Beirut too.

A handful of Hezbollah thugs going around raising Hezbollah and SSNP flags doesn't count as protests.





EDIT:
Also, the cloud following the explosion was red. I thought it's weird at first, so I looked up Ammonium nitrate explosions, they don't leave red clouds.
Red clouds are left by scud missiles.


@JohnRawls
Although if you REALLY want to modernise the country and the economy then you will have to do something with the tribes. While it is a helpful factor right now, it will be a detrimental factor in the long term. Tribes will bread corruption and incompetence in the end, the same way your current government does. The difference is just how it is/will be done and that currently tribes just look better than your government.(This doesn't mean that they don't bread corruption and incompetence though) While Tribes might look more competent right now, if you are going to try to implement real change than some kind of change will need to happen in the structure or participation of the tribes in both economical and political aspects of life. This is really important because otherwise you will either reach the same corrupt/incompetent government or a larger political fracture within the country along the tribal lines.

True, this is why the Baalbek council was established to begin with, to start decaying these tribal structures.
The problem is there were no bigger national structures for this integration to happen with, only recently has the movement started picking up steam.
Most tribal leaders are already on board and view this as an essential step towards re-integrating the Beqa' with the coast and the mountain after nearly 50 years of near full autonomy and separation.

However, as long as the current political system is in place, nothing will change; Not only do the tribes not trust the state, but the corrupt political class doesn't want the integration as it would tip the balance of powers against them.
The current political elites were almost entirely born out of militias that were integrated into the state army, this is why they can easily move a good portion of the armed forces to their will regardless of the law; Integrating tribal forces into the state army would effectively destroy their monopoly on power, and since the tribes are highly mixed, the sectarian structures they keep pushing will fall apart as well.
By Rich
#15112078
ckaihatsu wrote:This is why -- you want to portray history as all being level-playing-field, when in reality Jews have been severely *persecuted* by the Western imperial hegemonic powers. You're trying to make all sides sound relatively *neutral*, and they're *not*. Then you characterize the oppressed Jews as being the initially 'hateful' party.

When the Israelites genocided the Caananites, the western Christian powers didn't exist and wouldn't exist for over a thousand years. This was the original hatred. The Bible doesn't even attempt to present the Caananites as the original aggressor. The Israelites made no attempt to negotiate with the Caananites, no attempt to share the land. They didn't even provide reservations for the Caananites, like the European Christians did when they settled in North America. This was the original hatred, the hatred of the Israelites (and their successors the Jews) for the Gentiles in general and the Caananites in particular.

Nor was this just some historical memory. Josiah attempted to repeat the genocidal expansionism four centuries later. Rather than apologising and feeling shame for the evil that their religious forbears committed, religious Jews celebrate Joshua and Josiah as heroes. Judaism is a religion of imperialism. It is a religion of expansionism. It is a religion of racism. It is a religion of genocide. You can't blow me off with your Cultural Marxist "imperialist" gas lighting. I as I said had the Jewish scriptures rammed down my throat as a child in the form of the Old Testament. I know what's in them.

Jewish supremacists and their Cultural Marxists running dogs (in this regard), try and make out the Jews to be some special victims of Roman Imperialism. The Romans were imperialists no one denies that. No I don't forgive or forget what the Romans did to my Germanic and Celtic ancestors. But the irony is that it was Canaanite, Phoenician Carthage that was wiped off the map not Judea. It was Canaanite, Phoenician Carthage that was burned to the ground and its fields salted, not Jerusalem.

History can not be redone, but those of us that are genuinely anti imperialist as opposed to the fake anti imperialism of the Marxists, support Phoenician nationalism. Support the right of the Phoenician people to their own historic homeland. This latest blast, what ever its proximate cause, surely proves that Phoenicians deserve a State of their own.

Countering fascist sentiment, as from you, doesn't make one fascistic -- it makes one *anti-fascist*, which is on the *leftist* side of the political spectrum.

I'm an anti fascist. I support Indian independence. I support the Indian Hindu (and Sikh and Buddhist) struggle against Muslim and Han expansionist imperialism. I oppose both the Black fascism of Hitler and Mussolini and the Red fascism of Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao and Ho Chi Ming.
#15112079
Also, the cloud following the explosion was red. I thought it's weird at first, so I looked up Ammonium nitrate explosions, they don't leave red clouds.
Red clouds are left by scud missiles.


Does this in your opinion suggest that along with the ammonium nitrate catching fire, their weapons cache was popping off all over the place?

I’m going to assume that’s what you’re alluding to..
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