It would be interesting to know whose real estate got blown away and their insurance policies.
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Patrickov wrote:You are right that I have been a bit nit-picky. I think I wouldn't have stepped in had that post of yours not been of similar purpose.
As said in another post, I was confused why the French President went there and was welcomed by locals.
Oxymoron wrote:Eat a Dick you Nazi fuck
Eat a Dick you Nazi fuck
I wouldn't even be bothered by people practising Orthodox Judaism as long as the Klu Klux Klan, Hindu fundamentalists and Mormons have the same right to practice. Any hatred of Jews was preceded by Jewish hated of Gentiles. This is shown explicitly in the Jews own sacred scriptures. By the words of the Jewish scriptures Jewish hatred of Gentiles is the oldest still existing hatred. The Jews were not some special let alone innocent victims in either the Ancient or the Mediaeval worlds.
Typical response I'd expect from fascistic right-man. No argument so they engage in personal insults.
Now here is the reality though. Lebanons regime has been on the brink of collapse and change even last year. With this happening it only highlighted the problems within the Lebanese society: incompetence, corruption, and abuse of business by structures like tribes or hezbollah etc.
This shows that the French mandate is being remembered kindly nowadays compared to the current independent rule.
The better question is why did Lebanon not use Israel as a scapegoat anyways.
As for your conspiracy theory. Even if they blame Israel for political reasons then Hezbollah is just going to have some minor skirmishes at best. Or fire some rockets. There is no realistic way that Iran or Lebanon can face Israel in a war. Israel will probably win since Lebanon has a border with Israel while Iran does not. Otherwise, if even some miracle happens, US will just step in. All sides realise this so no war is going to happen. Lebanon and Iran do not have a way to fight Israel in the open field so at best they can use guerilla like tactics. May be Iran can if Israel directly invades Iranian territory but Israel doesn't have a border nor is it even interested in directly invading Iran itself.
Innocence (and thus scapegoat) here is strictly about the event itself.
Only if you can prove Israel's involvement in Lebanon is directly responsible for the blast that Israel can be said as "not innocent".
The explosion happened in section 12 of the port.
Hezbollah controls sections 9 through 12.
Port gate 12 is called the Fatima gate.
It's a well-known fact that Hezbollah keeps ammunition and missiles along with other materials in storages near civilians populations, including in both the port and the airport.
The hanger in question was flagged by multiple intelligence agencies in the past as ammunition storage for Hezbollah.
Hezbollah has a long history of using sodium nitrates in attacks with similar explosions happening in Syria in the past few months.
Hezbollah holds full responsibility of the explosion and the disaster as they're the ones who chose to store highly explosive materials near civilian areas, regardless of the cause of the explosion.
If anyone wants to start spewing bullshit and blaming anyone other than Hezbollah, imagen your government decided to store ICBMs or bombs or ammunitions right next to your house all while being at war and knowing full well they could be attacked or an incident could take place, you'll blame your government first because they're the ones who put you and your family at risk.
For anyone sympathetic to Hezbollah, congrats, whatever left of the Lebanese Shia population supporting the Dahieh rat are now turning against him. Your beloved Hezbollah is on its way out and the Covid-19 epidemic wont save him now.
The 2006 Lebanon War, also called the 2006 Israel–Hezbollah War and known in Lebanon as the July War (Arabic: حرب تموز, Ḥarb Tammūz) and in Israel as the Second Lebanon War (Hebrew: מלחמת לבנון השנייה, Milhemet Levanon HaShniya), was a 34-day military conflict in Lebanon, Northern Israel and the Golan Heights. The principal parties were Hezbollah paramilitary forces and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). The conflict started on 12 July 2006, and continued until a United Nations-brokered ceasefire went into effect in the morning on 14 August 2006, though it formally ended on 8 September 2006 when Israel lifted its naval blockade of Lebanon. Due to unprecedented Iranian military support to Hezbollah before and during the war, some consider it the first round of the Iran–Israel proxy conflict, rather than a continuation of the Arab–Israeli conflict.
Peace and neutrality.
Both Lebanese and Israeli people want peace.
Also, Lebanon can have its own army and defend itself. The bulk of the weapons are held by the tribes and tribal leaders have already stated multiple times they'll hand everything to the state and join forces if they can ensure reforms and a solution to corruption.
Only left is removing Hezbollah along with Syria and Khamenei loyalists in general.
Israel and the apartheid analogy is criticism of Israel charging that Israel has practiced a system akin to apartheid against Arabs and Palestinians in its occupation of the West Bank. Some commentators extend the analogy to include treatment of Arab citizens of Israel, describing their citizenship status as second-class. The analogy has been asserted by critics of Israel including scholars, United Nations investigators, the African National Congress (ANC), human rights groups critical of Israeli policy and by several Israeli former politicians. Proponents of the analogy say that "a system of control" in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, including the ID system; Israeli settlements; separate roads for Israeli and Palestinian citizens around many of these settlements; Israeli military checkpoints; marriage law; the West Bank barrier; use of Palestinians as cheaper labour; Palestinian West Bank exclaves; and inequities in infrastructure, legal rights (e.g. "Enclave law"), and access to land and resources between Palestinians and Israeli residents in the Israeli-occupied territories, resemble some aspects of the South African apartheid regime, and that elements of Israel's occupation constitute forms of colonialism and of apartheid, contrary to international law.
In 2007, the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination reported that Palestinians and Israeli settlers in the occupied territories are subject to different criminal laws, leading to longer detention and harsher punishments for Palestinians than for Israelis for the same offenses. Amnesty International has reported that in the West Bank, Israeli settlers and soldiers who engage in abuses against Palestinians, including unlawful killings, enjoy "impunity" from punishment and are rarely prosecuted. However Palestinians detained by Israeli security forces may be imprisoned for prolonged periods of time, and reports of their torture and other ill-treatment are not credibly investigated.
John Dugard has compared Israeli imprisonment of Palestinians to policies of Apartheid-era South Africa, saying "Apartheid's security police practiced torture on a large scale. So do the Israeli security forces. There were many political prisoners on Robben Island but there are more Palestinian political prisoners in Israeli jails."
Now *you're* trying to make it sound like there's neutral, even-handed *equivalence* everywhere.
When is the Israeli state going to stop practicing *apartheid* -- !
Israel was invited in during the 80s, when it outstayed its welcome and turned hostile, we kicked it out.
The Sabra and Shatila massacre (also known as the Sabra and Chatila massacre) was the killing of between 460 and 3,500 civilians, mostly Palestinians and Lebanese Shiites, by a militia close to the Kataeb Party (also called Phalange), a predominantly Christian Lebanese right-wing party, in the Sabra neighborhood and the adjacent Shatila refugee camp in Beirut, Lebanon. From approximately 18:00 on 16 September to 08:00 on 18 September 1982, a widespread massacre was carried out by the militia in plain sight of the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF), its ally. The Phalanges were ordered by the IDF to clear Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) fighters out of Sabra and Shatila, as part of the IDF maneuvering into West Beirut. The IDF received reports of some of the Phalange atrocities in Sabra and Shatila but did not take any action to prevent or stop the massacre.
The massacre was presented as retaliation for the assassination of newly elected Lebanese president Bachir Gemayel, the leader of the Lebanese Kataeb Party. It was wrongly assumed by the Phalangists that Palestinian militants had carried out the assassination.
Same goes for the Syrians.
The establishment of the state of Israel and the displacement of a hundred thousand Palestinian refugees to Lebanon during the 1948 and 1967 exoduses contributed to shifting the demographic balance in favor of the Muslim population. The Cold War had a powerful disintegrative effect on Lebanon, which was closely linked to the polarization that preceded the 1958 political crisis, since Maronites sided with the West while leftist and pan-Arab groups sided with Soviet-aligned Arab countries.
Fighting between Maronite and Palestinian forces (mainly from the Palestine Liberation Organization) began in 1975, then Leftist, pan-Arabist and Muslim Lebanese groups formed an alliance with the Palestinians. During the course of the fighting, alliances shifted rapidly and unpredictably. Furthermore, foreign powers, such as Israel and Syria, became involved in the war and fought alongside different factions.
The bulk of the Lebanese weapons are in Baalbek, i.e. the tribes. The only ones threatening Lebanese sovereignty are the traitors from within. The mountains are more than enough to keep outsiders at bay.
The Palestinians are not our cause, let the 13 million Palestinian living right next to Israel worry about that.
Despite opposition both within and outside the country, the government legislated for a continuation of apartheid. The security forces cracked down on internal dissent, and violence became widespread, with anti-apartheid organisations such as the African National Congress (ANC), the Azanian People's Organisation (AZAPO), and the Pan-Africanist Congress (PAC) carrying out guerrilla warfare and urban sabotage. The three rival resistance movements also engaged in occasional inter-factional clashes as they jockeyed for domestic influence. Apartheid became increasingly controversial, and several countries began to boycott business with the South African government because of its racial policies. These measures were later extended to international sanctions and the divestment of holdings by foreign investors.
As far as we're concerned, Israel has been pretty tamed even during its military presence in the south, to the point that the south was built while Israeli troops were around.
The population of the Golan Heights prior to the 1967 Six-Day War has been estimated between 130,000 and 145,000, including 17,000 Palestinian refugees registered with UNRWA. Between 80,000 and 130,000 Syrians fled or were driven from the Heights during the Six-Day War and around 7,000 remained in the Israeli-held territory in six villages: Majdal Shams, Mas'ade, Buq'ata, Ein Qiniyye, Ghajar and Shayta.
Israel demolished over one hundred Syrian villages and farms in the Golan Heights. After the demolitions, the lands were given to Israeli settlers.
Are you referring to *this*:
So your only concern is about the nation of Lebanon, while *apartheid* social conditions continue on in Palestine.
I'll remind that the U.S. had a *civil rights movement* to overturn institutionalized racist social practices, and South Africa's anti-apartheid politics received *international support*:
So, again, why are you calling for a *demobilization* of Hezbollah when they have a *track record* of countering the IDF, which backs Israel's social policy of *apartheid* against the Palestinians?
What about the Golan Heights?
Responding to a poster who discreetly mentionned the likelihood of Israel being the source of the destruction, JohnRawls wrote:You are an anti-semite the same way as the people you supported in Labour. You don't bat an eye at spreading rumours and linking Israel AND the Jews to any negative things happening in the world.
Gideon Levy wrote: ...Official Israel presented itself as shocked at the disaster that struck its neighbor, Lebanon, yesterday. Almost everyone put on a sorrowful face. ...
As if all this beneficence was not enough, the mayor of Tel Aviv ordered the municipality building illuminated with the colors of the Lebanese flag. Words fail. All past hatred has been set aside, Israel is now a friend in need to its suffering neighbor. Maybe it was Tu B’Av, the holiday of love, marked yesterday. But still, a vague memory threatens to spoil the how-beautiful-we-are party, which we love so much around here.
Was it not that same defense minister that only last week threatened that same Lebanon with destruction of infrastructure? Didn’t the prime minister also threaten Lebanon? And how does destruction of infrastructure look in Lebanon? Just like what was seen in Lebanon on Tuesday. The sound of thunder shook the city, black smoke billowed over it, destruction and devastation, civilian blood spilled, 4,000 injured at hospital doors, as described in horror by the ambassador of a European country in Beirut, who had previously served in Israel. She was injured Tuesday in the blast and was in shock.
Half of Israel and the entire IDF General Staff know how to recite the acclaimed Dahiya Doctrine. Every second politician has threatened to carry it out. That is our language with Lebanon and Gaza. It’s the doctrine espoused by the Israeli Carl von Clausewitz, former chief of staff Gadi Eisenkot, the current hope of the Israeli left, when he was chief of the Northern Command.
And what is this sophisticated doctrine? It’s the use of disproportionate, unbridled force against infrastructure, the sowing of destruction and shedding of as much blood as possible. “Flattening” – to teach the enemy a lesson “once and for all.” The IDF has tried this more than once in the past, in Lebanon and in Gaza, and it was a dizzying success story. It looks just like what was seen in Beirut on Tuesday.
Not a week had passed since Israel threatened to destroy infrastructure in Lebanon if Hezbollah dared avenge the killing of one of its fighters in a limited military action on the border, and Israel the destroyer becomes Israel the merciful. Would you accept humanitarian aid from such a country? Is there a more sickening show of hypocrisy?
When Israel demolished Dahiya and other neighborhoods in Beirut, the Tel Aviv Municipality building was not illuminated with the colors of the Lebanese flag. When Israel killed thousands of innocent women and children, old and young, in Gaza during the criminal Operation Cast Lead and Operation Protective Edge, the municipality was not lit up in the colors of the Palestinian flag. But on Wednesday we were all so humane, so Lebanese for a moment. Until the next Dahiya.
There is no evidence Hezbollah are responsible for this explosion and they didn't control port 12.
As some in Lebanon blame Hezbollah, there is great sentiment there that Israel is responsible for the explosion
Israel has a history of attacking weapons depots of countries it considers enemies as it has been doing in Syria every other week as well as in Lebanon, so this being a thing isn't so far-fetched. But again, we have no evidence for who is responsible, if this explosion was not due to negligence.
Just because you don't care about Palestinians, doesn't mean other Lebanese people don't. The fact that Lebanon has so many Palestinian (and Syrian) refugees suggests people in Lebanon care about them.
There were protests against Macron during his visit to Beirut too.
Although if you REALLY want to modernise the country and the economy then you will have to do something with the tribes. While it is a helpful factor right now, it will be a detrimental factor in the long term. Tribes will bread corruption and incompetence in the end, the same way your current government does. The difference is just how it is/will be done and that currently tribes just look better than your government.(This doesn't mean that they don't bread corruption and incompetence though) While Tribes might look more competent right now, if you are going to try to implement real change than some kind of change will need to happen in the structure or participation of the tribes in both economical and political aspects of life. This is really important because otherwise you will either reach the same corrupt/incompetent government or a larger political fracture within the country along the tribal lines.
ckaihatsu wrote:This is why -- you want to portray history as all being level-playing-field, when in reality Jews have been severely *persecuted* by the Western imperial hegemonic powers. You're trying to make all sides sound relatively *neutral*, and they're *not*. Then you characterize the oppressed Jews as being the initially 'hateful' party.
Countering fascist sentiment, as from you, doesn't make one fascistic -- it makes one *anti-fascist*, which is on the *leftist* side of the political spectrum.
Also, the cloud following the explosion was red. I thought it's weird at first, so I looked up Ammonium nitrate explosions, they don't leave red clouds.
Red clouds are left by scud missiles.
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