African-American Asphyxiated by Police in Minneapolis - Page 182 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15111822
Unthinking Majority wrote:You can block the airway without physically damaging the neck.

They also had guys with their knee on his back, which would push his chest into the ground.

But the autopsy said he died of a heart attack, not asphyxiation.


The cardiac arrest could have been caused by the cops' restraint maneuver ("CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENTSUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION")
#15111888
Unthinking Majority wrote:You can block the airway without physically damaging the neck.

The knee on on the side of the neck would not do that either.

Unthinking Majority wrote:They also had guys with their knee on his back, which would push his chest into the ground.

The pressure on the back pushing his chest into the ground could prevented George Floyd from breathing. However, it was the black rookie police officer only that had pressure on his back. The white rookie police officer was holding down his legs. The other more experience white (I believe) police officer was standing by watching. The fact that George Floyd acted like he was on drugs and had already said he could not breathe and other claims in an attempt to prevent being put into the police squad car is reason enough that the more experienced officers would not believe his claims after he was on the ground.

Unthinking Majority wrote:But the autopsy said he died of a heart attack, not asphyxiation.

Yes, that autopsy makes more sense to me, especially since it also revealed all those drugs in his system as well as some heart disease condition, which I can't recall the details of now. But you can just read the autopsy again.
#15111968
The autopsy shows that George Floyd was killed in a homicide by police.

    Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression

    Manner of death: Homicide

    How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)

https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... ticleShare
#15112074
Pants-of-dog wrote:The autopsy shows that George Floyd was killed in a homicide by police.

    Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression

    Manner of death: Homicide

    How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)

https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... ticleShare

A homicide requires only a volitional act by another person that results in death, and thus a homicide may result from accidental, reckless, or negligent acts even if there is no intent to cause harm.

Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide
#15112114
Pants-of-dog wrote:The autopsy shows that George Floyd was killed in a homicide by police.

    Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression

    Manner of death: Homicide

    How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)

https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... ticleShare


It's good you are now interpreting the Hennepin County coroner's report for what it is.

Hindsite wrote:A homicide requires only a volitional act by another person that results in death, and thus a homicide may result from accidental, reckless, or negligent acts even if there is no intent to cause harm.

Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide


Even if there was no intent, the cops (Derek Chauvin in particular) would still face a conviction for manslaughter and quite possibly third degree murder. That can still mean decades in jail.
#15112126
@Godstud You can certainly establish that the officer meant to harm George Floyd. Haven't you gotten tired of defending the worst racists, yet?


Racists never get tired of defending themselves. Their racism is almost always based upon their own notions of victimization. They are the oppressed. They are fighting for their freedom from oppression from "the left". "The left" is anyone who believes in racial equality under the law.

You see Godstud, this is the subtle distinction that racists are not intellectually capable of understanding. They cannot understand the difference between "equal" and "the same". They cannot reconcile the notion that people are protected equally under the law. This is why they (ironically) constantly bring up IQ.
#15112299
wat0n wrote:Even if there was no intent, the cops (Derek Chauvin in particular) would still face a conviction for manslaughter and quite possibly third degree murder. That can still mean decades in jail.

I agree that Derek Chauvin acting like an asshole is not excused by George Floyd acting like an asshole. The trial and jury will have to determine what happens next, but with all the hype and media attention on the knee on the neck for so long, I would not be surprised by a conviction of manslaughter.
#15112301
Hype and media attention are irrelevant. The only relevant thing is that the police officer knelt on Floyd's neck, until he died from it. He died as a direct result of that police officer's actions, and belligerence.

How racist fucks feel about it is also irrelevant. Only the lowest form of shit defends police officers engaging in police brutality.
#15112304
Godstud wrote:Hype and media attention are irrelevant. The only relevant thing is that the police officer knelt on Floyd's neck, until he died from it. He died as a direct result of that police officer's actions, and belligerence.

How racist fucks feel about it is also irrelevant. Only the lowest form of shit defends police officers engaging in police brutality.

Actually, the evidence does not prove that the knee on Floyd's neck was the cause of death. It just looks bad for the police officer to do that for so long.
#15112305
I didn't think it was possible for people to be so thick. The evidence states, overwhelmingly that it's the fault. Had he not been kneeling on his neck, and restricting bloodflow, there is no evidence that he would have died. Neck compression is what he died from.

“Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s),” the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office said in a news release. Cause of death was listed as “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression.

Under “other significant conditions” it said Floyd suffered from heart disease and hypertension, and listed fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use. Those factors were not listed under cause of death.

That autopsy, by a forensic pathologist who also examined Eric Garner’s body, found the compression cut off blood to Floyd’s brain, and that the pressure of other officers’ knees on his back made it impossible for him to breathe, Crump said.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... kQkbO.html

Forensic Pathologist Breaks Down George Floyd's Death
This means that Floyd stopped breathing and his heart stopped beating (cardiopulmonary arrest) because of the injury caused by his restraint in the custody of law enforcement officers, to include asphyxia from neck compression. Asphyxia means that there is a lack of oxygen going to the brain. It can happen from obstruction of the airway, restriction of breathing from compression of the neck or chest, or the prevention of blood flow to the brain by collapsing the blood vessels in the neck.It can also happen from the replacement of oxygen in the blood by carbon monoxide, or depletion of oxygen in the atmosphere, like in a fire. "Cardiopulmonary arrest" is not a heart attack. Online sources that imply that the medical examiner is covering up George Floyd's death by calling it a "heart attack" are wrong.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/working-stiff/86913
#15112331
@Hindsite I would not be surprised by a conviction of manslaughter.


Nor would I. I think that is where this will land. That and a light sentence. It will come long after Trump's reelection and we will have larger fish to fry. Certainly the Federal government will not step in to try a case on civil rights grounds. I doubt that the other cops will be convicted at all. Certainly the rookie will not.
#15112351
I am actually surprised that he was charged at all. Most cops and DAs have no trouble looking the other way when a cop kills an innocent black person.

The MPD union, for example. think he was fired for no god reason and are campaigning for the killer to get his job back.
#15112384
Pants-of-dog wrote:I am actually surprised that he was charged at all. Most cops and DAs have no trouble looking the other way when a cop kills an innocent black person.

The MPD union, for example. think he was fired for no god reason and are campaigning for the killer to get his job back.


It is not clear that this was an act of racism or whether Floyd died of airway narrowing by the knee in the back.

Floyd was intoxicated on drugs and clearly stated he could not breath well before the knee was placed behind his neck.

Nevertheless, the cop was WRONG. He used unnecessary violence that might have accelerated the final event. We will never know if Floyd would have died sitting in the back of the squad car if he had decided to cooperate. The cop is fried!
#15113123
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/2-indiana ... -1.5683807

    2 Indiana officers face criminal charges for battery during George Floyd protest

    Officers face charges of battery and misconduct stemming from protest in May. One is also charged with perjury

    The Associated Press · Posted: Aug 12, 2020 3:40 PM ET | Last Updated: 7 hours ago

    A grand jury indicted two Indianapolis police officers on battery and other charges following an investigation into allegations that they used excessive force while arresting demonstrators at a May protest over the death of George Floyd, a prosecutor announced Wednesday.

    Johnathan Horlock, a five-year veteran with the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department, faces three counts of battery and one count each of official misconduct, perjury and obstruction. Nathanial Schauwecker, who has been with the department for eight years, faces four counts of battery and two counts of official misconduct.

    "The question here is whether the officers' conduct was reasonable or not," Marion County Prosecutor Ryan Mears said at a news conference. "You can't say, 'Hey, my training told me to do this,' if that conduct turns out to be unconstitutional, or excessive."

    Two women, Ivore Westfield and Rachel Harding, both of Marion County, are named as victims. They filed a federal lawsuit in June after video was released of officers using batons and pepper balls to subdue the them during their May 31 arrests in downtown Indianapolis.

    Video of the arrest, recorded by WISH-TV, shows Westfield, who is Black, being held from behind by a white male officer, escaping his grasp and then being surrounded by several other officers. There were audible pops and several clouds of spray near Westfield, which the lawsuit contends were caused by detonated pepper balls. Two officers struck her with batons until she fell to the ground, and she was then pinned face-down by a baton at the back of her neck.

    Harding, who is white, could be seen and heard in the video shouting, "Why her? Why her?" Another officer then rushed Harding and shoved her to the ground, where officers subdued her.

    Neither woman was charged with any crime.

    Among other things, grand jurors were asked to consider the level of threat posed by the individuals being arrested, Mears said.

    Police Chief Randal Taylor said in a statement Wednesday that Horlock and Schauwecker will remain on administrative duty while an internal investigation continues. Taylor said he intends to address the administrative side of the officers' conduct following all criminal proceedings.

    Two other officers who were involved, Sgt. David Kinsey and Officer Conrad Simpson, do not face charges at this time, Mears said.
#15113138
Godstud wrote:I didn't think it was possible for people to be so thick. The evidence states, overwhelmingly that it's the fault. Had he not been kneeling on his neck, and restricting bloodflow, there is no evidence that he would have died. Neck compression is what he died from.

“Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s),” the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office said in a news release. Cause of death was listed as “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression.

Under “other significant conditions” it said Floyd suffered from heart disease and hypertension, and listed fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use. Those factors were not listed under cause of death.

That autopsy, by a forensic pathologist who also examined Eric Garner’s body, found the compression cut off blood to Floyd’s brain, and that the pressure of other officers’ knees on his back made it impossible for him to breathe, Crump said.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... kQkbO.html

Forensic Pathologist Breaks Down George Floyd's Death
This means that Floyd stopped breathing and his heart stopped beating (cardiopulmonary arrest) because of the injury caused by his restraint in the custody of law enforcement officers, to include asphyxia from neck compression. Asphyxia means that there is a lack of oxygen going to the brain. It can happen from obstruction of the airway, restriction of breathing from compression of the neck or chest, or the prevention of blood flow to the brain by collapsing the blood vessels in the neck.It can also happen from the replacement of oxygen in the blood by carbon monoxide, or depletion of oxygen in the atmosphere, like in a fire. "Cardiopulmonary arrest" is not a heart attack. Online sources that imply that the medical examiner is covering up George Floyd's death by calling it a "heart attack" are wrong.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/working-stiff/86913

I believe you are quoting from an autopsy paid for by the family of Big George Floyd. They have an incentive to satisfy George Floyd's family, but were unable to do as extensive of an autopsy as was originally done. It is clear that Big George Floyd was a criminal with a lot of drugs in his system and also had heart disease and complained of breathing problems before the police officers restrained him on the ground. However, our opinions don't really count in the end. It will be determined by a jury at the appropriate time.
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