So how deadly is it? - Page 34 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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By Sivad
#15111760
TRUE TOLL Coronavirus deaths ‘may be less than half official toll – as docs wrongly mark certificates’, says ex-WHO chief

CORONAVIRUS fatalities could be “less than half the official toll”, a former World Health Organisation chief has said.

Prof Karol Sikora claims that doctors may have marked the virus as the cause of death on certificates if there was "any hint" Covid played a part.

The NHS has reported that over 41,000 people have died in hospitals due to the pandemic.

But Prof Sikora said this figure could in fact be much less - as many medics are marking it down without proof it was the main cause.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11837547/ ... tificates/
#15111761
Sivad wrote:TRUE TOLL Coronavirus deaths ‘may be less than half official toll – as docs wrongly mark certificates’, says ex-WHO chief

CORONAVIRUS fatalities could be “less than half the official toll”, a former World Health Organisation chief has said.

Prof Karol Sikora claims that doctors may have marked the virus as the cause of death on certificates if there was "any hint" Covid played a part.

The NHS has reported that over 41,000 people have died in hospitals due to the pandemic.

But Prof Sikora said this figure could in fact be much less - as many medics are marking it down without proof it was the main cause.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11837547/ ... tificates/


The cancer specialist has been playing down the virus from the start, so this is nothing new.

What does he offer as an alternative for the excess deaths recorded?
#15111780
QatzelOk wrote:I think that governments of countries often sign away their own citizens' lives in order to make a fortune.

And if that's what the banks want our leaders to do, the banks have enough money and influence to make it happen. World Wars are caused by the banks, and they seem to be using disease this time to kill millions of nobodies... and perhaps poison vaccines.. in order to preserve the infrastructure. Wars would destroy this.

The 99% will have nothing to say about what happens it if they don't revolt. We don't live in a democracy, we live in a Bankster Dictatorship. All the good guys have been extorted.


WOW. :knife:
#15111791
XogGyux wrote:WOW. :knife:

Or, if you hate conspiracy theories...

Everything is being done correctly. Just put on your paper mask and stay in your house, making sure not to have too many people gathered in one place.

The government (and the corporations that bought it) will help ordinary people all over the world to improve our lives over the next few years because that's why corporations were created: to help mankind reach new zeniths of quality of life.

Starting with the arms merchants who run "defense" departments, all the way down to pharmaceutic corporations (the state-sanctioned drug dealers) who run "health."
#15111848
QatzelOk wrote:Or, if you hate conspiracy theories...

Everything is being done correctly. Just put on your paper mask and stay in your house, making sure not to have too many people gathered in one place.

The government (and the corporations that bought it) will help ordinary people all over the world to improve our lives over the next few years because that's why corporations were created: to help mankind reach new zeniths of quality of life.

Starting with the arms merchants who run "defense" departments, all the way down to pharmaceutic corporations (the state-sanctioned drug dealers) who run "health."


Dude... it is not an "all or nothing". It is not a "well... I reject the notion that there is some sort of conspiracy theory in which huge corporations are using all humans as ginea pigs and killing them on purpose, destroying economies all with the blessing of their government and law makers while they purposely put poison and mind-control chips and chemicals in our water/food/vaccine" or "everything is unicorns and rainbows".
Nobody is saying that they are angels, what I am saying is that your particular theory is nonsense, conspiratorial, not founded in science, reality, full of hyperbole and with the potential to harm those that take it at face value. :lol:
#15111923
XogGyux wrote:Nobody is saying that they are angels, what I am saying is that your particular theory is nonsense, conspiratorial, not founded in science, reality, full of hyperbole and with the potential to harm those that take it at face value. :lol:

When you accuse people of having "dangerous opinions" that don't support "the science gods" - and then claim that these non mainstream opinions can "harm people" - you are engaging in fascism by Orwell.

I realize that you're not that original and that you're just imitating what you see in commercial media. So really, my criticism of your boring memes is a criticism of mainstream media and its hidden commercial agendas.

MY MASS MEDIA-CONSUMING FRIENDS

Most of my friends who watch a lot of mass media... are scared to death of COVID because they're also overweight and addicted to fast food and sedentary activities. They wear their masks. They stay out of the sun. They are always scared, and don't sleep well.

See, these people don't believe in a healthy lifestyle or nutrition because commercial media sells them soft drinks, hamburgers, cars, and and endless stream of trends. There is no room to be healthy. So the "solution" that is on mainstream media is to do sick-things until the corporations give you drugs. THis is the commercial media "solution" to health.

It's one reason I am happy to have quit TV and movies 20 years ago. They are the most deadly of viruses.
#15111928
QatzelOk wrote:When you accuse people of having "dangerous opinions" that don't support "the science gods" - and then claim that these non mainstream opinions can "harm people" - you are engaging in fascism by Orwell.

I realize that you're not that original and that you're just imitating what you see in commercial media. So really, my criticism of your boring memes is a criticism of mainstream media and its hidden commercial agendas.

MY MASS MEDIA-CONSUMING FRIENDS

Most of my friends who watch a lot of mass media... are scared to death of COVID because they're also overweight and addicted to fast food and sedentary activities. They wear their masks. They stay out of the sun. They are always scared, and don't sleep well.

See, these people don't believe in a healthy lifestyle or nutrition because commercial media sells them soft drinks, hamburgers, cars, and and endless stream of trends. There is no room to be healthy. So the "solution" that is on mainstream media is to do sick-things until the corporations give you drugs. THis is the commercial media "solution" to health.

It's one reason I am happy to have quit TV and movies 20 years ago. They are the most deadly of viruses.


If my choices are between "not being that original" and being a conspirational nutjob i rather be non-original.
Things are not right just because they are different, or original... if that were the case, flat earthers would be right.
I am afraid you quit your TV vice for another that is not much healthier. Inventing/reading/following/spreading conspiracy theories is as much of a vice as "mass media consumption".
#15111930
XogGyux wrote:...i rather be non-original...

A lot of people feel that way. It's safer and easier.

And commercial media knows that too, and that's why they try so hard to make their outrageously wrong commercial information look "normal."

It's called "normalization" and it looks like you are one of its tragic victims, unable to think outside of a fake box.
#15111994
QatzelOk wrote:A lot of people feel that way. It's safer and easier.

And commercial media knows that too, and that's why they try so hard to make their outrageously wrong commercial information look "normal."

It's called "normalization" and it looks like you are one of its tragic victims, unable to think outside of a fake box.

Yeah.. don't quote the whole thing/context, Mr Nutjob conspiracist :lol: :lol:
#15112041
XogGyux wrote:Yeah.. don't quote the whole thing/context, Mr Nutjob conspiracist :lol: :lol:

Just keep watching commercial media, and the people who own it will soon be selling you the air you breathe.

And you will welcome them to this because "it just makes sense. I want higher quality air."

Never underestimate the power of lies.
By Sivad
#15112096
yesterday the Government published an update entitled “Direct and Indirect Impacts of COVID-19 on Excess Deaths and Morbidity”– and, thankfully, it was picked up by the Telegraph (see today’s front page above). This update was presented to SAGE on July 23rd, but it was only published yesterday.

The headline news is that the lockdown killed two people for every three that died of COVID-19 by the beginning of May. However, when you take into account the age of those who died from coronavirus, as well as their underlying health conditions, the loss of life as measured in Quality Adjusted Life Years, or Qalys, for those who died as a result of the lockdown was greater than it was for those who died of COVID-19. This is how the authors of the report put it:

The direct COVID-19 deaths account for the majority of all excess deaths. However, when morbidity is taken into account, the estimates for the health impacts from a lockdown and lockdown induced recession are greater in terms of QALYs than the direct

COVID-19 deaths. Much of the health impact, particularly in terms of morbidity, will be felt long after the pandemic is assumed to last…



https://lockdownsceptics.org
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#15112344
a study Sivad quoted wrote:...those who died as a result of the lockdown was greater than it was for those who died of COVID-19...

This is, without a doubt, true.

But when has reality ever stopped our ideological sheephood?

I mean, I read another study that demonstrates that - *when you calculate all the time spent paying for, parking, driving an automobile, and add these hours to your daily commute, you're actually going slower than a hunter-gatherer.

But what does this matter to people who have accepted every preceding behavioral change? We are conditioned to accept behaviorism by... preceding layers of behaviorism.

Suburbia forced everyone to "embrace" car culture even if this means that they are actually slower than caveman*. And the poison vaccines will be the same - accepted because of previous behaviorism, like masks and lockdowns.
#15114968
QatzelOk wrote:
MY MASS MEDIA-CONSUMING FRIENDS

Most of my friends who watch a lot of mass media... are scared to death of COVID



MISPERCEPTIONS OF RISK
Six months into this pandemic, Americans still dramatically misunderstand the risk of dying from COVID-19:

On average, Americans believe that people aged 55 and older account for just over half of total COVID-19 deaths; the actual figure is 92%.

Americans believe that people aged 44 and younger account for about 30% of total deaths; the actual figure is 2.7%.

Americans overestimate the risk of death from COVID-19 for people aged 24 and younger
by a factor of 50; and they think the risk for people aged 65 and older is half of what it actually is (40% vs 80%).

These results are nothing short of stunning. Mortality data have shown from the very beginning that the COVID-19 virus age-discriminates, with deaths overwhelmingly concentrated in people who are older and suffer comorbidities. This is perhaps the only uncontroversial piece of evidence we have about this virus. Nearly all US fatalities have been among people older than 55; and yet a large number of Americans are still convinced that the risk to those younger than 55 is almost the same as to those who are older.

SHARE OF COVID-19 DEATHS BY AGE: BELIEFS VS. DATA
Estimates of the distribution of COVID-19 deaths reported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)
Image
Sources: US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), as of July 22, 2020

This misperception translates directly into a degree of fear for one’s health that for most people vastly exceeds the actual risk: we find that the share of people who are very worried or somewhat worried of suffering serious health consequences should they contract COVID-19 is almost identical across all age brackets between 25 and 64 years old, and it’s not far below the share for people 65 and older.

The discrepancy with the actual mortality data is staggering: for people aged 18–24, the share of those worried about serious health consequences is 400 times higher than the share of total COVID deaths; for those age 25–34 it is 90 times higher. The chart below truly is worth a thousand words:

FEAR OF HEALTH CONSEQUENCES FROM COVID-19 VS. ACTUAL MORTALITY DATA, BY AGE BRACKET
Share of respondents worried for serious health effects from coronavirus compared to deaths reported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)
Image
Sources: US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), as of July 22, 2020

PARTISANSHIP AND SOCIAL MEDIA
For the last six months, we have all read and talked about nothing but COVID-19; how can there be still such a widespread, fundamental misunderstanding of the basic facts? Our poll results identify two major culprits: the quality of information and the extreme politicization of the COVID-19 debate:

People who get their information predominantly from social media have the most erroneous and distorted perception of risk.

Those who identify as Democrats tend to mistakenly overstate the risk of death from COVID-19 for younger people much more than Republicans.

This, sadly, comes as no surprise. Fear and anger are the most reliable drivers of engagement; scary tales of young victims of the pandemic, intimating that we are all at risk of dying, quickly go viral; so do stories that blame everything on your political adversaries. Both social and traditional media have been churning out both types of narratives in order to generate more clicks and increase their audience.

The fact that the United States is in an election year has exacerbated the problem. Stories that emphasize the dangers of the pandemic to all age cohorts and tie the risk to the Administration’s handling of the crisis likely tend to resonate much more with Democrats than Republicans. This might be a contributing factor to why, in our survey results, Democrats tend to overestimate the risk of dying from COVID-19 for different age cohorts to a greater extent than Republicans do.

https://www.franklintempleton.com/inves ... ience.html
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#15114977
late wrote:Wanna guess why the flyover states are getting hammered?

Hammered with cases, means nothing.

Hammered with suicides, drug overdoses, depression-related deaths, and untreated other conditions... is death by COVID measures. And this may have been the plan all along.

Your billionaire masters are scared of you, so you must die or develop a vaccine-related long-term condition that neuters your existence and turns you into a profitable commodity for Big Pharma.

In 5...4...3...
By late
#15115511
QatzelOk wrote:
Hammered with cases, means nothing.



Nothing?

Nothing??

It means a lot. Schools are opening up, and shortly after closing down. We are sliding towards an economic depression, possibly a Great Depression.

While I agree with your underlying point, which is the extreme inequality we have, that's where we part ways.
#15115525
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Sivad

Can you post a link to the actual study?
As always it's a misrepresentation. It's an estimate of what would happen if cases continue at the same rate as mid July up until March 2021 and included a 2 month lockdown.

The lockdown is an estimated effect over 5 years and the article completely ignores the figures should the spread of covid be allowed to continue unrestricted.


https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsa ... dmorbidity

The negative health impacts of social distancing amount to a loss of 88,000 QALYs up to March 2021, so mortality improves over this period but health worsens – the main causes of this are increases in: depression; musculoskeletal disorders, resulting from more people working from home without suitable equipment; and domestic abuse.

Socio-economic effects are estimated to have the greatest impact on quality of life of all categories investigated, over the short and long term combined; from March 2020 to more than five years from now, the impacts of lockdown and a resulting recession are estimated to reduce England’s health by over 970,000 QALYs – the health impacts of contracting COVID-19 are still unclear in the long term, but between March 2020 and March 2021, these represent 570,000 lost QALYs.

While these negative health impacts of lockdown exceed the impacts of COVID-19 directly, they are much smaller than the negative impacts estimated for a scenario in which these measures are not in place; without these mitigations, the impact of direct COVID-19 deaths alone on both mortality and morbidity would be much higher – an estimated 439,000 excess deaths resulting from COVID-19, and 3,000,000 QALYs lost.
#15115562
@late Quatelok just meant to say that it means nothing to him. He might as well be a republican for all the care he has about other people. Despite what he might say to the contrary, he's as much a product of his environment as the rest of us. He's motived by his consumption of mass media, wants to buy an SUV, and dreams of living in suburbia, with a hot trophy wife, like any other red-blooded heterosexual, Christian male. :D
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#15115693
late wrote:Nothing?
Nothing??
It means a lot. Schools are opening up, and shortly after closing down. We are sliding towards an economic depression, possibly a Great Depression.
While I agree with your underlying point, which is the extreme inequality we have, that's where we part ways.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

When I said that "hammered with cases" means nothing, I meant that it means nothing as far as having a serious illness is concerned. Cases are not the same as serious illness.

Things that you mention like "closing schools and sliding into a Great Depression" are not caused by "cases." They are caused by the very human responses of the elites, who are able to force fascist-like rules at the drop of a hat by screaming "Plague!" in the lying media they control.

Having allowed them to do this has consequences; it means that they will use "Plague!" to lock everyone in their houses whenever their power is threatened by revolution or natural disasters - anything that involves change. The money-hoarding elite already do this in out-of-media-eye colonies in Africa and Latin America, where resurce pillaging sometimes depends on locking protestors in their homes.

Image
Much like a human mask, this dog leash allows another domesticated mammal (the dog) to go outside while being surveyed by his master. Notice how much the dog learns to love his leash. This is called "Stockholm Syndrome" and it also makes the leashed dog "hate" unleashed dogs.

Godstud wrote:@late Quatelok just meant to say that it means nothing to him. He might as well be a republican for all the care he has about other people.

Yes, locking people up in their houses and denying them the ability to earn a living... is all about love, Godstud. And anyone that disagrees with government fascism is motivated by "hate."

At least, that's what the powerful guy holding the mike on TV said.

**sinks into quicksand of communityless propaganda norms**

Despite what he might say to the contrary, he's as much a product of his environment as the rest of us. He's motived by his consumption of mass media, wants to buy an SUV, and dreams of living in suburbia, with a hot trophy wife, like any other red-blooded heterosexual, Christian male. :D

Hard to do any of this as your peeing your pants in fear while wearing a mask, shouting "Cases! Cases!"
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