Letter from Seattle Police Chief to Local Business Owners - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15110221
Godstud wrote::lol: @Wulfschilde You're just full of lies and bullshit, aren't you?




STEP 5
(54+ Mos Experience) $48.98/hr $8,522/mo $102,264/yr

https://www.seattle.gov/police/police-j ... d-benefits

This is comparable to other cities of the same size, even those led by Republicans.

You still aren't smart enough to know what defund means. You can't teach a willful idiot new things, apparently.

Well, I read your link. Don't know why you are spending your time googling literally every single thing I write looking for small mistakes. Your link is about entry level salaries. I was referring to another thing I read, which I don't feel like there is a need to hunt down and repost it. If you want to believe I'm wrong about police officer salaries then OK, it's not like it's very important...
#15110226
In Seattle it’s not just some of the cops earning $300,000+: Why The City Of Seattle And Their Police Department Is In Trouble
Last edited by Doug64 on 28 Jul 2020 14:54, edited 1 time in total.
#15110229
Wulfschilde wrote:Everyone normal should (will) move out of these Democrat-led cities. They are basically going to turn into high-security ghettos for the homeless, people on welfare and the feudal lord.

It's actually gonna be pretty metal once the drone cops enter the picture. Normal cops in Seattle are already paid sometimes more than $300,000 a year, that's what you have to pay people to put up with this kind of thing apparently.

"Defund" the police is in some ways even worse than "abolish" because it will lead to a slow decline in these cities as they can't pay people enough to engage in the work with the tools and techniques allowed to them, which will lead to under-policing, fed involvement etc.

This is also potentially an avenue for a transition to a federal police force in the big cities. People are giving it to them. I'm a little surprised no one else is talking about that yet but I guess that AntiFA and BLM have just done that good of a job...



When society loses all rules due to excessive liberalism the end result is a dystopia. And those that are trying to destroy the current system will likely impose a much more oppressive system.
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”
― George Orwell, 1984
#15110258
In Seattle it’s not just some of the cops earning $300,000+: Why The City Of Seattle And Their Police Department Is In Trouble


Interesting post. It is a magnificent example of why the so called "defund the police" movement is on the right track. Clearly this argues for two things. Reasonable budgets for police departments and abolishing police unions. (There should never be public sector unions of any kind.)

My guess is that the vast majority of officers do not even know this and would be appalled if they did. I wonder if the city is borrowing money to pay this stuff. I am absolutely for balanced budgets.
#15110280
Drlee wrote:Interesting post. It is a magnificent example of why the so called "defund the police" movement is on the right track.

You can’t extrapolate from Seattle, it’s a fairly unique case (I hope). And like I said it isn’t just the cops. Sure, there’s 1,326 employees of the SPD earning six-figure salaries, but there are also 866 employees of the Seattle Fire Department doing the same. Likewise, the mayor (who earns more than 49 state governors) and at least four members of the city council (the highest paid of which earns more than the US’s highest paid state legislators in the New York General Assembly), the city’s chief librarian and her executive assistant, 22 truck drivers, seven street pavers, and three tree trimmers.

There’s a reason why every Seattle resident owes $5,400 just to cover the unfunded liability for the city employees’ retirement benefits. It sounds like there the cry shouldn’t be to defund the police, but to defund the government.
#15110291
There’s a reason why every Seattle resident owes $5,400 just to cover the unfunded liability for the city employees’ retirement benefits. It sounds like there the cry shouldn’t be to defund the police, but to defund the government.


I certainly do not disagree. But one step at a time. I could make the case that when we see the outrageous examples (and I am sure they are more common than one might think) and then act on them, other city departments will fall in line.

You have to admit, as a fellow conservative, that the republicans should be falling in line with fighting this stuff and not using it as a political football. Trump was the biggest spending peacetime president in history before the virus problem. The republican party for decades has been the party of balanced budgets and smaller government. It has lost its soul in this regard.

So if we stop with the nonsense that defund the police means that there will not be police, and embrace the notion of making them law enforcement officers working in their community we can get rid of these absurdities.

The people of Seattle are responsible for their own local issues. If I was calling the shots in Washington though, I would cut off federal funds to the city, in all its forms, until they get a handle on this problem. Getting rid of public sector unions is a good first step.

Observation:

Most view the police ad right wingers, and I suppose this is mostly true. But we see the hollowness in today's confused conservative messaging. They claim to be right wing but they embrace their union and calls for bigger government. The thing is Doug, that many who claim to be conservative, really aren't. Not when it comes to feathering their own nest. So they endorse Trump's wealthy tax cut.

Another example is this. Most police are supporters of the second amendment. I am too. But when it comes to calls for reducing the number and type of guns in criminal hands they oppose these. They make the slippery slope argument. OK so far. But then they ask the federal government for armored vehicles and assault rifles because the criminals they face daily are "too heavily armed". It simply does not make sense. It is a version of the cold war in our cities and towns.

What the Chief in Seattle should have said was, "we are going to put officers in front of your businesses and do the best job that we can but until this crisis is past we will not be processing fingerprint clearances, putting officers in schools, doing DUI checkpoints, loaning officers to multi-city task forces, assigning officers to graffiti abatement and parking enforcement". You see, defund the police shouldl look at all of these and see what is necessary and what can only be done by a commissioned peace officer. Then offload the nonsense to unarmed, lower paid, para-professionals.
#15110383
Drlee wrote:I certainly do not disagree. But one step at a time. I could make the case that when we see the outrageous examples (and I am sure they are more common than one might think) and then act on them, other city departments will fall in line....

So if we stop with the nonsense that defund the police means that there will not be police, and embrace the notion of making them law enforcement officers working in their community we can get rid of these absurdities.

Except that the "defund" movement isn't about fiscal responsibility, and it isn't about "law enforcement officers working in their community," it's about tying the hands of what its supporters see as the enemy, the police, by starving them of the funds they need to effectively function. The rioters in Seattle and Portland aren't agitated about fiscal responsibility.

The people of Seattle are responsible for their own local issues. If I was calling the shots in Washington though, I would cut off federal funds to the city, in all its forms, until they get a handle on this problem. Getting rid of public sector unions is a good first step.

Trump's already tried that, with defunding Sanctuary Cities. He got major pushback on it, and I can't say that bothers me--if a Populist President can do it then a Democratic President can do it, and I want Federalism to be more than a hollow shell like Augustus left of the republican traditions when he made himself the military dictator of Rome. Can't disagree with you about public sector unions, though, not at all at all.

What the Chief in Seattle should have said was, "we are going to put officers in front of your businesses and do the best job that we can but until this crisis is past we will not be processing fingerprint clearances, putting officers in schools, doing DUI checkpoints, loaning officers to multi-city task forces, assigning officers to graffiti abatement and parking enforcement". You see, defund the police shouldl look at all of these and see what is necessary and what can only be done by a commissioned peace officer. Then offload the nonsense to unarmed, lower paid, para-professionals.

This is precisely what the "defund" movement doesn't want, it would make law enforcement more effective rather than less.

And now the attempt to tie law enforcement's hands is impacting the Democratic Convention:

Police agencies pulling out of Democratic National Convention over tear gas ban

    More than 100 police agencies are withdrawing from agreements to send personnel to bolster security at next month’s Democratic National Convention in Milwaukee, in part because they’re concerned about a recent directive ordering police in the city to stop using tear gas to control crowds.

    A citizen oversight commission last week directed Milwaukee’s police chief to publicly account for why the department used tear gas during protests in late May and early June after the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis and to change Milwaukee’s police policies to ban the use of tear gas and pepper spray. The Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission said in its order that Police Chief Alfonso Morales could be fired if he fails to comply.

    That order came amid intense scrutiny of police tactics at protests in Portland, Oregon, and elsewhere.

    Since the Milwaukee order was issued, more than 100 law enforcement agencies in Wisconsin and across the country decided against coming to Milwaukee, Morales told WTMJ-TV on Tuesday. They were concerned with directives placed on the police department, including not allowing tear gas or pepper spray, he said.

    Morales did not say which agencies would not be coming or how many officers were still expected. The original plan was to have 1,000 officers on hand from outside agencies to assist with security. Morales said utilizing the National Guard or enlisting federal assistance was under consideration.

    The convention, scheduled for Aug. 17-Aug. 20 at the Wisconsin Center in downtown Milwaukee, has been scaled down to a mostly virtual event, with only about 300 people expected to attend in-person. Most of the speeches will be delivered online from other locations, though former Vice President Joe Biden has said he will be in Milwaukee to accept the nomination. Despite the event’s smaller scale, police are preparing for potentially large protests in and around the venue.

    A spokeswoman for the convention did not immediately return a message seeking comment Tuesday. The Milwaukee police oversight commission also did not return a message seeking comment.

    Fond du Lac Police Chief William Lamb told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the agreements were collapsing, saying he expects other agencies in the state to also withdraw. Lamb chairs the Wisconsin Police Executive Group, which is made up of police chiefs from cities with populations of more than 20,000 people.

    Lamb sent a letter to Milwaukee police on July 6 outlining his organization’s concerns about limiting the use of tear gas and pepper spray. West Allis police first sent a letter to Morales with concerns in mid-June after Milwaukee’s Common Council temporarily halted the purchase of those chemicals.

    “Our concern is that in the event protests turn non-peaceful, such a policy would remove tools from officers that may otherwise be legal and justifiable to utilize in specific situations,” West Allis Deputy Chief Robert Fletcher told the Journal Sentinel in an email.

    Waukesha’s police chief said he was consulting with the city attorney’s office on how to withdraw from the agreement, which had promised about two dozen Waukesha officers.

    Not all police departments withdrew because of the tear gas order. The Madison Police Department notified Milwaukee early this month that “an accelerating COVID-19 pandemic coupled with ongoing protests in Madison” had strained its resources, making it impossible to commit resources to the convention, the Wisconsin State Journal reported.

    Madison originally committed to providing 100 officers to Milwaukee for what was to have been a 10-day convention before it got shortened and postponed until August.
#15110578
Oregon governor blinks in Portland protest standoff with feds

    Oregon Gov. Kate Brown agreed Wednesday to send in state police to protect the federal courthouse in Portland, and Homeland Security said it will remove its additional officers and agents, signaling a possible solution to months of violent clashes that have stained the city.

    Ms. Brown and acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf announced the deal in separate statements, and gave differing accounts of how quickly the federal officers will withdraw. She said they will begin to leave Thursday, while he says they will stick around until the police prove they can — and will — protect the courthouse.

    But the outlines of the agreement still marked a major breakthrough, with Mr. Wolf saying he’s been trying to get the local police to handle things for weeks.

    “We’re happy to have them on the team,” he told reporters in announcing the deal.

    For her part Ms. Brown, a Democrat, portrayed her decision to deploy state police as a matter of protecting protesters — though she seemed eager to turn the page from what has become an embarrassment for Oregon’s largest, and famously liberal, city.

    “Our local Oregon State Police officers will be downtown to protect Oregonians’ right to free speech and keep the peace,” Ms. Brown said on Twitter. “Let’s center the Black Lives Matter movement’s demands for racial justice and police accountability. It’s time for bold action to reform police practices.”

    She did take another shot at the feds, calling them “an occupying force” that “brought violence.”

    Ms. Brown said she expects Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and Immigration and Customs Enforcement personnel, who were deployed over the last month to help the Federal Protective Service defend the courthouse, “will leave downtown Portland” starting Thursday.

    Mr. Wolf insisted the agents and officers will remain “in the area” until police prove themselves up to the task of preventing protesters from breaching the courthouse. He said that will take some days.

    “DHS law enforcement officers that are there today will remain in Portland until we are assured that Oregon State Police and the plan the governor has put together is successful,” he said.

    The differing accounts underscored the different audiences each was trying to assuage — for Ms. Brown, the vocal protesters, and for Mr. Wolf, a vocal president.

    But Mr. Wolf said the agreement is exactly what he’s been asking from the governor for weeks.

    “I’m glad she did it. I wish she would have done it earlier,” he said.

    He said the breakthrough happened about five days ago, while Ms. Brown was talking with Vice President Mike Pence about the coronavirus, where Oregon is one of the states experiencing a surge in cases and deaths.

    Mr. Wolf said Ms. Brown, after weeks of declining to have state and local police get involved, said she was ready to do so, if it would pave the way for the feds to curtail their presence.

    Ms. Brown and Mr. Wolf then talked through the details.

    A spokesman for Mr. Pence confirmed Mr. Wolf’s vision of the deal, saying on Twitter the vice president told the governor that “federal law enforcement will remain in Portland until violence directed toward them & the federal courthouse is brought to an end.”

    Portland has experienced marches every day for more than 60 days, dating back to the death of George Floyd, a black man, at the hands of a white Minneapolis police officer.

    Most of the protesters have been peaceful, all sides said — but some demonstrators have used the occasion to try to attack the federal Hatfield Courthouse in the city’s downtown.

    With the U.S. Marshals and Federal Protective Service overwhelmed, Homeland Security deployed CBP and ICE personnel for reinforcements. But local officials say that only enflamed the protests, sparking more violence, which was met with even stiffer response by the feds.

    Over the last month federal officers have been pelted with bottles, been blinded by high-intensity lasers, tried to duck attacks from commercial-grade mortar-launched fireworks, and dealt with Molotov cocktails and fires.

    Protesters, meanwhile, say they’ve been tear-gassed and fired at with less-lethal rounds such as pepper balls and impact projectiles.

    “Federal agents nearly killed a demonstrator, and their presence has led to increased violence and vandalism in our downtown core,” Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler said Wednesday on Twitter.

    He’s been at the center of the matter, having marched with protesters — and gotten a face full of tear gas.

    He’s also fueled some of the unrest, including taking to Twitter last week to spread an unsubstantiated rumor that federal agents had been authorized to use live ammunition on protesters. He acknowledged that the U.S. attorney told him it was not true, but he still posted the rumor, saying he felt protesters should know it was out there.

    Federal officials say Mr. Wheeler has ordered Portland police not to protect federal-government property, which is why they had to deploy the additional federal agents.

    Mr. Wheeler issued similar orders in 2018, when violent protests shut down an ICE office building in the city for weeks.

    Attorney General William P. Barr this week said that’s what sets Portland apart from the protests in the rest of the country.

    “Even where there are these kinds of riots occurring, we haven’t had to put in the kind of reinforcements that we have in Portland because the state and local law enforcement does their job and won’t allow rioters to come and just physically assault the courthouse,” he said. “In Portland, that’s not the case.”

    Portland police have, however, been observers of the clashes, issuing daily recaps.

    They describe a nightly routine of large crowds of demonstrators gathering to listen to racial justice speeches, chant slogans, block traffic and bang on the fence surrounding the federal courthouse.

    As the night progresses most protesters leave but a core group remains and grows more confrontational.

    On Tuesday night, protesters fired commercial grade fireworks at the courthouse and threw bottles and rocks, and some attempted to climb the protective fence. A large fire was also set. Federal agents allowed the activity to go on for a couple hours, then dispersed the crowd.

    Portland police noted that they did not engage with the crowds themselves.

    Mr. Wolf said under the new deal, police will now engage, working to keep violent protesters from reaching the courthouse in the first place and dealing with them if they do.

    But Mr. Wheeler, on Twitter, suggested a more limited role.

    “The Oregon State Police, Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office, & Portland Police Bureau will continue working together to keep Portlanders safe, and the governor and I have given clear direction: we expect that they will continue engaging only if there is violent criminal activity,” he said.

    Mr. Barr told Congress on Tuesday that without the federal officers, he believes the protesters would have burned the courthouse to the ground.

    He said the courthouse is usually protected by a small contingent of U.S. Marshals, which he said isn’t a threat to anyone’s First Amendment rights.

    “When people are arrested, it’s because they’re trying to come into the fence,” he said. “When you have, you know, 100, 120 federal people behind a fence trying to protect the building and all these people are trying to cut their way in. That is the occupation of a city?”

    Mr. Wolf said 245 Homeland Security law enforcement agents and officers have been injured in the clashes, ranging from minor scrapes to serious wounds. Several officers may have been permanently blinded by protesters’ lasers.
    He said federal agents have made 94 arrests.

    Oregon politicians seemed relieved to be on the cusp of moving beyond the embarrassing videos and photos of their marquee city, which they suggested had derailed the focus on racial justice issues.

    “Trump’s strategy to shift attention away from Black Lives Matter and the reform of systemic racism must not succeed,” said Sen. Jeff Merkley, Oregon Democrat.

So now we’ll see if these protesters’ targets were law enforcement in general, or just federal law enforcement. I imagine that Oregon’s governor and Portland’s mayor are very much hoping it’s the latter, but I suspect it’s the former in which case those state police are in for a rough time.

If course, if it is the latter, that kinda undercuts the message of the whole movement, since the law enforcement they’re protesting is local, not federal.
#15111159
And the Portland rioters are disproving the claim that it was the federal officers stoking the violence as they continue their in kind contribution to the Trump campaign:

Portland protests grow violent as feds step back

    With federal officers taking a lower profile in Portland, Oregon, protesters are turning their ire on local police, using the same tactics of throwing bottles and firing lasers into officers’ eyes, as Black Lives Matter demonstrations enter their 10th week.

    New violence over the weekend seems to undercut city and state leaders’ claims that it was the presence of the feds that had sparked the violence.

    Portland police also reported Sunday morning that they’re seeing demonstrators cloaking themselves as journalists to engage in the violence — a tactic the federal officers also faced, and one that complicates questions about press freedom and the ability to control the crowds.

    “People with ‘press’ written on their outer garments repeatedly threw objects at officers,” the city police department said in a wrap-up of Saturday night’s activities, which saw generally peaceful demonstrations near the federal courthouse in downtown Portland, but a more violent scene to the east near a city office building.

    After those protesters started throwing bottles and aiming lasers at officers, police declared it an unlawful gathering and tried to disperse the crowd.

    Police said they made two arrests of demonstrators who were fighting them, and at one point they had to slash the tires of a car that was being used to try to obstruct officers from clearing the scene.

    Activists on Twitter claimed the car belonged to a reporter.

    A federal judge last week said he was so concerned about demonstrators cloaking themselves as press that he is pondering asking the American Civil Liberties Union to license reporters on the scene.

    Judge Michael Simon had previously issued a temporary restraining order directing police not to interfere with reporters doing their jobs in covering the events, but he said he’s worried about video he’s seen of people marked as press leading assaults on the federal courthouse.

    “Given that we’ve seen some people at least commit some unlawful acts who were wearing a press helmet, am I not putting the law enforcement officers at unreasonable danger or risk?” he said during a telephone hearing on Friday.

    At the same time, he also said he’s worried some officers are still targeting press despite his orders.

    For them, he said he’s pondering having them wear sports team-style jersey numbers, so they can be identified and punished if they are violating his orders.

    “I do think it might be appropriate to require any federal law enforcement officer who steps out of the fed courthouse building to wear a unique identifying code,” the judge said. “I’m kind of thinking a little bit like professional basketball or football jerseys — not with their names on it, but their numbers.”

    The ACLU was excited about labeling the police, but was less enthusiastic about being put in charge of vetting authentic reporters, saying it doesn’t have the expertise — or, for that matter, enough vests to give out to designate people.

    Judge Simon said he’ll ponder the idea more.

    The Trump administration, during the Friday hearing, told Judge Simon the matter might be moot, because federal officers have pulled back from front-line enforcement under the deal between Oregon Gov. Kate Brown and acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad F. Wolf.

    After weeks of violent clashes outside the federal Mark O. Hatfield United States Courthouse, Mr. Brown agreed to deploy the state police to protect the building, and Mr. Wolf said he would then withdraw the additional officers and agents he’d sent in.

    The handoff took place Thursday and seemed to work immediately.

    Portland police said there were mass marches and chants and some unruly behavior, including attempts to set fires inside the fence line at the federal courthouse that’s become the focal point of recent riots.

    But both police and activists on the ground reported that the fires were quickly squelched by other protesters.

    “Some people climbed on or near the fence at the federal courthouse, but others admonished them and they got down,” the Portland Police Bureau said in its recap of the night. “People could be heard in the crowd repeating that the protest was to remain peaceful.”

    A similar scene played out Friday night as well, police said.

    Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell credited the protesters for moderating their own behavior.

    “Thank you to all those who demonstrated peacefully last night as well as those who interceded to stop any attempts to light fires or throw projectiles,” he said Friday. “It’s time to move forward and make transformative changes.”

    Ms. Brown also crowed over the more peaceful rallies.

    “Last night, the world was watching Portland. Here’s what they saw: Federal troops left downtown. Local officials protected free speech. And Oregonians spoke out for Black Lives Matter, racial justice and police accountability through peaceful, nonviolent protest,” she said.

    On Saturday, though, some of the violence returned — and this time it involved city police.

    Police said the area around the courthouse remained “peaceful,” with a crowd marching around downtown but avoiding major mischief. But east of downtown, across the Willamette River, a city office build that also houses some Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office services became the focal point of violent clashes where police say they faced bottle-throwing and lasers.

    Activists took to Twitter, meanwhile, to complain that they were threatened and assaulted by police who used batons and pepper spray.
#15112349
Seeing how it’s been a week since the last report on BLM’s and AntiFA’s ongoing in kind contribution to the Trump and Republican campaigns:

Portland mayor unleashes police on violent demonstrations

    Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, who for weeks had blamed President Trump for fueling riots in his Oregon city, on Thursday acknowledged that the violence has continued even after the federal presence was curtailed, and told peaceful protesters to stay home.

    Mr. Wheeler, who is also the city’s police commissioner, said he’s authorized officers to “do whatever is necessary” to gain control after another night of rioting against officers.

    And he used a base political appeal to try to get the riots to stop, saying they’re inadvertently helping Mr. Trump.

    “Don’t think for a moment that if you are participating in this activity that you are not being a prop for the reelection campaign for Donald Trump, because you absolutely are,” he said in a press conference conducted online. “You are creating the b-roll film that will be used in ads nationally to help Donald Trump during his campaign. You don’t want to be part of that, then don’t show up.”

    Police say a crowd barricaded and tried to set fire to a precinct with officers still inside it Wednesday night. Protesters also aimed green lasers at officers, threw shot put-sized rocks at them and fired commercial grade fireworks at them. At one point a demonstrator attempted to run over officers using a truck, police said.

    A riot was declared and police used tear gas to clear the scene.

    “The attack was immediate, it was intentional, and it was planned. It was intended to cause serious injury or death, and it very well could have,” Mr. Wheeler said in a Zoom press conference.

    He and other local officials had insisted things would calm down once Homeland Security curtailed its presence at the federal courthouse downtown, giving the lead over to state police.

    That transition happened a week ago, and the downtown area, while still the scene of large marches, has been much quieter. But the violence has now shifted to target local police.

    Mr. Wheeler said trying to burn the precinct with officers inside it was attempted murder.

    The Oregonian newspaper reported that the fire was contained in a metal garbage can, though it did char a board near the precinct entrance.

    Mr. Wheeler said the use of tear gas to disperse the crowd was the right call.

    He said he anticipated more “attacks” in coming days and warned peaceful Black Lives Matter protesters that they’re being sullied by the violence.

    “If you do not view yourself as wanting to be associated with, or be part of the kind of criminal activity we saw last night, I would ask you not to show up. And if you do show up, say something,” he said.

    That warning was akin to the statements by federal officials, who have said they respect the rights of peaceful protesters but are compelled to take action against violent mobs.

    Mr. Wheeler said the violence has become a distraction from real work he said the BLM movement is about.
#15112554
More of the same in Portland, no point in posting an entire other article after only a couple days, but there was one event over the weekend that requires notice:

    Protesters took particular umbrage at an incident in which officers detained a woman and patted her down. When a freelance reporter told them to wait for a female officer per procedures, the officer responded, “How do you know I don’t identify as a female?”

Personally, I think that officer merits discipline at a minimum if not being fired, but he makes an interesting point. If there’s no problem with forcing women of whatever age to share restrooms, locker rooms, and showers with men that insist they identify as women, what’s wrong with such men also being involved with pat-downs and other physical searches of women that have been detained?
#15112570
Doug64 wrote:More of the same in Portland, no point in posting an entire other article after only a couple days, but there was one event over the weekend that requires notice:

    Protesters took particular umbrage at an incident in which officers detained a woman and patted her down. When a freelance reporter told them to wait for a female officer per procedures, the officer responded, “How do you know I don’t identify as a female?”

Personally, I think that officer merits discipline at a minimum if not being fired, but he makes an interesting point. If there’s no problem with forcing women of whatever age to share restrooms, locker rooms, and showers with men that insist they identify as women, what’s wrong with such men also being involved with pat-downs and other physical searches of women that have been detained?


The gender issue is just one example of the insanity of the extreme left. A boy can be a girl and a girl can be a boy. :knife: :knife: :knife: It all depends on what they want to be. That is OK as long as they don't bother anyone.
#15112588
Drlee wrote:This whole thing makes me sick. If I had to predict a winner right now I would have to say my money is on Trump. The Democrats have given him all of the ammunition he needs to win. All he has to do is shut up for 100 days and the Democrats will just hand it to him.

I think you may be being a bit overly pessimistic Dr Lee. Remember Trump did lose the popular vote last time, and I suspect that a fair number of people voted for Trump on the basis that he had no chance of winning and wanted to cut down Hilary's margin of victory. I have no evidence but I also suspect the Republican Senate and House results were improved by people thought Hilary was a shoo in and wanted to limit her power. Just a small shift in the result would have totally changed the perceptions of the 2016 election, if the vote had swung slightly more to Hilary in those 3 key States everyone would have been talking about what idiots Republicans were for even considering selecting Trump as their candidate.
#15112651
Personally, I think that officer merits discipline at a minimum if not being fired, but he makes an interesting point. If there’s no problem with forcing women of whatever age to share restrooms, locker rooms, and showers with men that insist they identify as women, what’s wrong with such men also being involved with pat-downs and other physical searches of women that have been detained?


I agree. FTR most departments allow a pat down to check for firearms incident to an arrest.

What is interesting though is that the cops are taking down a woman and searching her for arms and allowing black suited, heavily armed protestors to menace the other protesters.
#15112653
What a little bitch of a police chief. Couldn't get his way through violence so he went crying home to mommy.

Also "I won't risk the lives of my officers to protect private property without the necessary tools", but you will apparently murder/seriously injure any and all civilians that make you look bad.

Fuck this piece of shit.
#15113657
So the Seattle chief of police—the first Black woman to serve in that position—is resigning rather than go along with the city government’s cuts to her department. And it isn’t just in Seattle by a long shot:

Denver councilwoman seeks to replace police department with largely unarmed 'peace force'

    A Denver city councilwoman has proposed replacing the police department with a largely unarmed “peace force,” an agency that would seek to prevent crime by taking a “holistic, anti-racist, public health-oriented approach.”

    Councilwoman Candi CdeBaca, a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, added to Monday’s city council agenda the “Creation of Peace Force” proposed ballot measure, which if passed would go before the voters in November.

    “This department will specifically subsume the current Police Department but will also subsume all relevant functions of existing departments that more properly should be under the Department of Peace Services,” the proposed measure said.

    Peace officers would be permitted to use force “only as a last and least favored resort,” and have no immunity from prosecution “unless it can be shown by clear and convincing evidence that the action was necessary for immediate self-defense and/or the immediate defense of another person.”

    “To underscore this, most officers in the Peacekeeping service will not have arrest powers or be licensed to bear or use arms as part of their duties,” the proposal said.

    The measure comes with Denver on pace to have the deadliest year in more than a decade, with 52 homicides reported as of Thursday. The city saw 63 homicides in all of 2019 and 67 in 2018, with murders creeping up since falling to 31 in 2014.

    As in other municipalities, Black Lives Matter activists have called for Denver to defund the police, and while Mayor Michael Hancock has expressed support for improving officer accountability, the city has not sought to slash funding to the department.

    The proposed “peace force” would actively seek to recruit minority officers based on an affirmative action system, and while “a merit-based system is also envisioned, merit shall not usurp the requirement that the members of the force be substantially representative of the demographics of the community they serve.”

    The force, which would be overseen by a citizen board, would respond to “all situations of violence, unrest, mental health crisis, public health disturbance, domestic strife,” and seek to “deal with underlying problems that can lead to unlawful or violent behavior before it happens.”

    The measure also criticized police for being “reactive” to crime and accused the department of being racist, saying it was “evident that certain members of our community face disproportionate policing and violence based upon the color of their skin.”

    Ms. CdeBaca credited protesters who have called for defunding the police with helping her develop the measure.

    “As much as I want to claim credit for this, it was not all me,” Ms. CdeBaca told Denverite. “This was all of them with my advice.”

And of course, the anti-law enforcement agitation is having its predictable effect, the Seattle police chief is far from the only officer deciding it’s time for a change of career (or at least, location):

Police counter protests, 'defund' push with retirements, resignations

    Police officers across the country, angered by budget cuts and a lack of support from left-leaning politicians, are fighting back by walking off the job.

    Since the death of George Floyd, protesters have convened nightly to demonstrate against police brutality, sometimes by pelting officers with rocks and bottles, chanting “F– the police,” and calling them names including “Nazi” and the N-word if the officer is Black.

    Mayors and city councils have bowed to protesters’ demands to slash police department budgets and divert funds to social programs for minorities.

    Officers say they have been demonized unfairly and have had enough. They are resigning or retiring en masse, creating a new crisis: police forces that are short-staffed and inexperienced.

    Paul Beakman Jr., president of the Fraternal Order of Police Western New York Lodge 103, retired in June after 35 years on the job. He cites the defund-the-police movement as his reason for walking away.

    “Defund the police is one of the most ill-thought concepts ever,” he told The Washington Times. “You are going to have forced overtime and tired officers patrolling the streets. You are going to have departments hire candidates that, at another time, they may not consider. All of this is going to create a bigger problem.”

    Mass resignations began in June, weeks after protests erupted over the death of Floyd, a Black man, while in the custody of the Minneapolis Police Department. This week, Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best resigned after the City Council cut her budget and the salaries of some officers.

    Nationwide resignations

    In New York last month, 179 officers filed for retirement. That was a stunning 411% increase over the 35 who filed during the same period last year. The resignations swelled after Mayor Bill de Blasio cut $1 billion from the department’s budget.

    The Milwaukee Police Department, which is expected to have its budget cut by 10%, has lost 75 officers to resignations or retirements so far this year — 26 in the roughly two months since Floyd’s death. That is an annual rate of 156. Last year, a total of 69 officers retired.

    Small towns also have seen a blue wave of retirements.

    At least 14 police officers in Norman, Oklahoma, about 8% of the department, resigned after the City Council trimmed its budget.

    The only two officers in Dorchester, Wisconsin, resigned last week, leaving the city without a police department. It was not clear whether those resignations were linked to the defund-the-police movement.

    “The triggering events for this civil unrest, rioting and anti-police sentiment have happened in a few places, but it has become everybody’s problem,” said Jim Pasco, executive director of the National Fraternal Order of Police. “It’s as bad in Dubuque, [Iowa], as it is in Minneapolis.”

    Mr. Pasco said his organization has received reports from local departments signaling that an “overwhelming” number of officers nationwide plan to retire or resign.

    Resignations in the wake of frustration isn’t a recent trend.

    Within a year after the outrage directed at the Baltimore Police Department in 2015 over the in-custody death of Freddie Gray, more than 500 officers retired.

    Anger at Democrats

    Officers who have recently walked off the job haven’t been shy about pointing the finger at Democratic politicians who they say have sided with anti-police protesters.

    Mr. Beakman, the Western New York FOP leader, is a registered Democrat and ran for elected office on that party’s ticket. Now he is frustrated by his party’s refusal to condemn the violence directed toward police officers.

    “I am disgusted by what’s going on with the party,” he said. “I can’t even sleep at night thinking I’m part of this group that has vilified an entire profession of individuals that has done nothing wrong other than doing a job that has to get done.”

    Mr. Beakman, who also heads the Western New York Association of Retired Law Enforcement Personnel, said his group has endorsed political candidates for the first time in its history.

    So far, WARP has endorsed two Republican candidates for state office because of their pro-police views. Mr. Beakman expects more endorsements from the organization as Election Day nears.

    “It is the way we can have a voice,” he said. “It is a way we can send a message that this is a candidate who has our backs.”

    Paul DiGiacomo, president of the New York Detectives Endowment Association, agreed that politicians must be held accountable for their lack of support for law enforcement.

    “These elected officials are responsible, if not more responsible, for the public safety of the people in this city. They dropped the ball, and they don’t care,” he said. “The silence of these elected officials is deafening.”

    Two big-city mayors say they support the police but insist changes are needed.

    “We’ve got to make sure that we do say to our police officers, we support them and we hear them and honest mistakes are not the same as intentional misconduct,” Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot said Thursday.

    “We don’t want every single officer pained with a broad brush. This is about a few bad apples,” she said, though she added that there are “systemic problems” in policing.

    Mayor Jane Castor of Tampa, Florida, who joined the city’s police department in 1984 and rose to become its chief in 2009, also pushed back on the narrative that Democrats don’t support law enforcement.

    “It is imperative that our officers understand they have the support of the mayors, city councils,” she said. “I do argue that law enforcement in my personal opinion is one of the, if not the, most noble jobs.”

    Mayors unveil overhauls

    Ms. Lightfoot and Ms. Castor, on behalf of the U.S. Conference of Mayors, released a series of proposals Thursday intended as a model for how cities should overhaul policing.

    The proposals include changing policing to better connect with communities.

    One example included dispatching social workers, mental health professionals and other civilians instead of police to handle certain calls. The mayors said the need for other responders is critical in minority communities where relationships between residents and police are strained.

    The mayors also called for bans on chokeholds and on firing at moving vehicles except in extreme situations. If any officer is using too much force, they said, other officers must intervene.

    During a press conference to announce the plan, Ms. Lightfoot stressed that the mayors, almost all of them big-city Democrats, opposed reducing department budgets.

    “We support law enforcement. We honor law enforcement, and we oppose explicitly efforts to defund the police,” she said.

    Mr. DiGiacomo said politicians need to focus on repealing lax criminal justice laws and loosened bail rules that let repeat offenders be sprung almost immediately, rather than transform policing.

    “If the district attorney lets someone out, what are the police accomplishing other than putting handcuffs on someone just so they can be let out?” he said. “That’s frustrating, too.”

    Fear abounds that the exodus of police won’t be easily reversed. It will leave departments understaffed and overworked, potentially exacerbating a national crime surge that began in recent months.

    “The people who suffer are going to be the people in New York,” Mr. DiGiacomo said. “Detectives investigate every shooting in the city, and it is very difficult to do that with the lack of manpower.”

    Mr. Pasco worries the resignations will hurt future generations as morale declines and fewer people pursue careers in law enforcement.

    “It’s not just less safe in the short term, but if you create a whole generation who expect the police not to stop them for any violation, it will get worse,” he said.
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