Mayor of Auckland Enforces New Lockdown Over Just 4 Cases Of Coronavirus - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15113162
Julian658 wrote:The founders were basically Englishmen that were not perfect and there is no point in judging men that lived hundreds of years ago with the present. That is called presentism. Almost as bad as racism.

Your response is hypocritical. You made a judgement about people that lived hundreds of years ago, I responded. Its the same hypocrisy as we get from Liberal apologists for Islam. Muslims are constantly making claims about how we should look up to Mohammed and the early Caliphs as moral and social guides for our own times. Similarly American Conservatives are constantly making claims about how we should look up to the founders and the constitution as moral and social guides for our own times.

The American Constitution is their Koran and the sayings and writings of the founders are their Hadiths.
#15113168
Lockdowns are fascist for the sake of fascism. There was never at any point in this crisis, any reasonable justification for them. Note by lockdown I mean the placement of the population under house arrest. In times of crisis, whether naturally occurring, whether manufactured by politicians or other powerful groups within society, human populations swing rapidly into extremely fascistic emotional and mental states.
#15113248
Julian658 wrote:OK, they have a collective mindset. America was found on the concept of individualism and that is what I prefer. I believe they do well because they seem to have some sense of nationalism which is rapidly disappearing in the UK and the USA.


New Zealanders are still very individualistic, it's just this is a few degrees less than that of the UK and USA. People still have the extreme personal freedom and individual autonomy but it is just a few points less. It allows for greater national cohesion.

Julian658 wrote:It was a virtue signaling hyper reaction. The shooting was done by a foreigner. They did not have a gun violence problem


New Zealand did not have a gun violence problem but this was the perfect reason to change outdated ultra-liberal gun laws.

Julian658 wrote:A nation where the citizens have no arms is never a good idea. Look at Venezuela. They tried real hard to start a rebellion against tyranny but failed. The citizens are not armed. Only crooks and thieves have weapons in Venezuela. Firearms are forbidden in Chicago and yet they shoot each other by the dozen every weekend.


A lack of arms are not an obstacle to overthrowing tyranny. The revolutions of 1989 against communism are a perfect case in point. And remember that the army consist of the people. If a regime truly loses its mandate the army will turn against it.

Julian658 wrote:I would like to see Trump dressed in African garb after the killing of George Floyd. Hmm, BTW, Nancy Pelosi put on an African scarf while working in congress.


African national costumes are from African ethnic cultures. Covering one's head for Muslims is a religious act. Jacinda was just showing the Muslims of NZ that she respects them and supports them.

maz wrote:So what's the point of contact tracing? If you are a city starting out at zero cases, it would make more sense to just find out who those people came into contact with and quarantine them so that the rest of society can get on with their lives.

I don't understand this idea of collective suffering lol


It's just to be extra sure. There is no heavy handedness when you are dealing with a deadly pandemic.

maz wrote:The president doesn't run the day to day operations in every city; he is just the head of the executive branch of the government.

Most of the US had the same stupid lockdown measures. We followed CDC guidelines which was first, stay at home for 15 days to slow the spread, then 30 days and now some states like California have adopted the retarded New Zealand measure.

The rest of the states are like a patchwork, some have reopened and then partially closed sections of their society again. New York has instituted checkpoints and mandatory quarantines for visitors.

All are testing and managing hospital occupancy levels but other than that, elected official are doing nothing else other than telling people to stay away from each other, which is unrealistic and what I would argue a violation of human rights.


America opened up too soon. If lockdown is maintained long enough the virus will be suppressed.

maz wrote:How do you think America should handle the coronavirus?


America needs a strict mandatory full scale lockdown. If people go outside except if it is for food or other essentials they should be fined or even jailed in some cases.

Keep everyone inside until case numbers drop. Use the police.
#15113252
Wellsy wrote:Problem is the police are Americans also and many are opposed to enforcing restrictions even as small as masks. There simply isn’t the political will in a lot of areas.


Even if they are ordered to?

I suppose it is hard to enforce it even in countries where the police support such policies let alone one where a significant portion of the citizenry are skeptical.
#15113255
Political Interest wrote:Even if they are ordered to?

I suppose it is hard to enforce it even in countries where the police support such policies let alone one where a significant portion of the citizenry are skeptical.


Pretty much this. I'm in favor of masks universally so that places me beyond the pale for some American ''conservatives'', while i'm likewise lambasted by Liberals for my approval of Hydroxychloroquine and other prophylactics to treat COVID-19.

The whole thing has become grotesquely politicized and irrational in America.
#15113256
Political Interest wrote:Even if they are ordered to?

I suppose it is hard to enforce it even in countries where the police support such policies let alone one where a significant portion of the citizenry are skeptical.

Yup. I’ve seen mostly county sheriffs and their peeps publicly announcing their refusal to both wear masks or enforce it in my state of New Mexico against the governor’s orders.
Not sure what has come of it since although also seen restaurants trying to refuse restrictions on them cop fines and double down on refusing also.
#15113266
Political Interest wrote:America opened up too soon. If lockdown is maintained long enough the virus will be suppressed.


You could also argue that New Zealand opened too soon. New Zealand had the most restrictive lockdown and eventually the "cases" came back.

I can't remember a lockdown in any other time during my life. I can remember a few schools closing for a bad flu though. America did not lock down during the last deadly pandemic, which was the 2009 H1N1 pandemic and we had about 60 million cases of it according to the CDC.

We do not lockdown when we have deadly strains of the flu either. Although Texas is likely to reach 10,000 coronavirus deaths soon, the 2017-2018 was thought to have killed almost 10,000 Texans and 61,000 Americans according to the CDC.

Political Interest wrote:America needs a strict mandatory full scale lockdown. If people go outside except if it is for food or other essentials they should be fined or even jailed in some cases.


Well if you want to argue for jailing people and other police state measures, you could start by calling for the jailing of the "peaceful protesters" in cities like Portland, Seattle and Chicago, where they are burning down buildings, looting department stores, blocking traffic and assaulting people.

But Dr. Fauci wouldn't even condemn those gatherings to control the virus when he was questioned in Congress.

So I don't see locking people in their homes indefinitely, depriving them of sunlight and exercise, until the media decides to stop reporting on "cases" as a realist way to deal with a virus that has a 99.5% survival rate.
#15113890


The election is delayed over four fucking cases? What kind of clown show are they running there?

New Zealand Delays Election After COVID-19 Outbreak Hits Auckland

WELLINGTON, New Zealand (AP) — Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has delayed New Zealand’s elections by four weeks due to the coronavirus outbreak in Auckland.

The election had been scheduled for Sept. 19 but will now be held on Oct. 17. Opposition parties had sought a delay after the virus outbreak prompted the government last week to put Auckland under a two-week lockdown and halted election campaigning.

Before the latest outbreak, New Zealand had gone 102 days without any known community transmission of the virus, and life had returned to normal for most people, with restaurants and schools open and sports fans back in stadiums. The only known cases during that time were returning travelers who were quarantined at the border.

Officials believe the virus was reintroduced to New Zealand from abroad but haven’t yet determined how. The outbreak in the nation’s largest city has grown to 58 infections, all thought to be connected, giving health officials hope the virus isn’t spreading beyond the cluster.

Ardern had the option of delaying the election for up to about two months. She said she had called the leaders of all the political parties represented in the parliament to get their views before making her decision Monday.

“Ultimately I want to ensure we have a well-run election that gives all voters the best chance to receive all the information they need about parties and candidates, and delivers certainty for the future,” Ardern said.

She said she wouldn’t consider delaying the election again — no matter what was happening with any virus outbreaks.

“COVID is continuing to disrupt life around the world,” Ardern said. Other nations including South Korea and Singapore had nevertheless managed to hold elections during the pandemic, she added.
#15113924
Image

The coronavirus may have entered the island nation which closed the international border to foreigners through freight and a focus is on the Auckland Americold facility, where several infections have been reported. A Melbourne Americold facility is the likely source of infection and a 50-year-old Kiwi man who works at Americold's Mt Wellington facility is the earliest case. The Americold facility has 10 positive cases: seven are employees and the remainder are contractors. Out of 78 active cases, 58 are linked to the Auckland family cluster formed by his family and contacts.

Almost a week after the discovery of New Zealand’s first locally transmitted coronavirus outbreak in more than three months, its origin remains a mystery.

The Pacific island nation had benefited from its remoteness early in the pandemic, when Ardern swiftly closed off the international border and imposed one of the world’s toughest lockdowns. Those measures stamped out local transmission for 102 days.

Genome testing of the latest batch of infections has confirmed it is a new strain, officials have said, probably from Australia or Britain.

With the clock ticking to get the latest outbreak under control, that has raised the tricky question of how it entered a country that has been largely closed off for months.

This is the major question still facing authorities, given the international border has been closed to foreigners since March and all returning New Zealanders have been forced into mandatory 14-day quarantine.

Authorities have said contact tracing and genomic testing found no links to the country’s border entry points or managed quarantine facilities yet. Genome sequencing disproved the theory from some health experts that the virus could have been quietly moving through community since the original outbreak, they added.

The government earlier suggested that the virus may have entered the country through freight, with a focus on the Auckland Americold facility where several infections have now been reported. Surface testing is underway at the facility. Australian authorities are conducting genome testing on workers from a Melbourne Americool facility, seeking any connection.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN25D0QH
#15114964
annatar1914 wrote:Pretty much this. I'm in favor of masks universally so that places me beyond the pale for some American ''conservatives'', while i'm likewise lambasted by Liberals for my approval of Hydroxychloroquine and other prophylactics to treat COVID-19.

The whole thing has become grotesquely politicized and irrational in America.


It is most unfortunate that rational and nuanced discussions on the important subjects are not possible. I also have this experience and not merely on the issue of the pandemic.

Wellsy wrote:Yup. I’ve seen mostly county sheriffs and their peeps publicly announcing their refusal to both wear masks or enforce it in my state of New Mexico against the governor’s orders.
Not sure what has come of it since although also seen restaurants trying to refuse restrictions on them cop fines and double down on refusing also.


That's terrible. How is it possible to run a country like this?
#15114967
Political Interest wrote:That's terrible. How is it possible to run a country like this?

Not all that effectively, the US is a very big place, its comparable to the EU.
But it is problematic in its free for all with not only a sense of limited government over such a massive nation but in it's a tendency to disrupt and cripple the means of governance in its rhetoric of small/limited government.
There isn't a unified polis as in ancient Greece, what is the community if its only mediated by laws of limiting the interference of others and mutual instrumental use of others through exchange.
Why give a shit what the government tells ya?

I think of my own country Australia and how the prime minister is an incompetent tool whose religion is pretty much health and wealth is holy and is little more than an instrument for big oil and coal companies to use their consultancy firms to inform them on policy and then speak out the other side telling those big companies what to expect and how to deal with the government.
The apparent incompetence seems almost in terms of having someone who serves the interest smoothly enough but even if they wanted to not toe the line, is too incompetent to really mount any opposition in the first place or something.

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