The End of Lukashenko is near. - Page 9 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#15113523
Political Interest wrote:How does Lukashenko sleep at night with the repressions?

Does his conscience not hurt him?


There are worse offenders than him, and they still sleep at night.

The reason is simple: If they don't do that, it's them who die!
#15113524
Euronews wrote:Hungary urges EU to pursue dialogue with Belarus amid violent protests

By Matthew Holroyd • last updated: 14/08/2020 - 08:34

ImageHungarian Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto issued the call on Thursday in a Facebook post. - Copyright AP
Photo/Petros Giannakouris


Hungary has called on the European Union to pursue dialogue with Belarus and avoid burning bridges with the eastern European country.

Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto issued the call on Thursday, despite widespread clashes across Belarus following the disputed reelection of President Alexander Lukashenko.

"We are interested in EU decisions based on dialogue that do not make it impossible to build future relations between Belarus and the European Union, nor do they reject the Eastern Partnership program," said Szijjarto on Facebook.

The Eastern Partnership program was launched in 2009 to bring Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine closer to the EU without a clear offer of future membership.

Hungary has previously remained silent on recent events in Belarus since Sunday's disputed election result, which was overshadowed by serious allegations of fraud.

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has maintained good relations with President Lukashenko and visited Minsk in June, where he called for an end to remaining EU sanctions.

At the same talks, Lukashenko called Hungary Belarus’s closest partner in the EU, and a country which “understands us more than any other”.

At least two protesters have died and more than 6,700 people have been detained since clashes erupted on August 9 following electoral authorities' announcement that Lukashenko had been re-elected for a sixth term in office with around 80 per cent of the vote.

EU foreign ministers have scheduled a video meeting on Friday to discuss the brutal crackdown.

EU foreign-policy chief Josep Borrell has suggested that the EU could impose sanctions against "those responsible for the observed violence, unjustified arrests, and falsification of election results."

But Peter Szijjarto did not confirm on Facebook whether Hungary recognised the election result claimed by Lukashenko or would support an increase in sanctions on Belarus.

"Yesterday we had a long meeting with my Latvian colleague Edgars Rinkēvičs," said Szijjarto.

"It has become clear that our assessment of the situation is similar."

On Thursday, the Presidents of Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Poland - Hungary's closest ally in the EU - issued a "call to action" to the Belarusian President.

The EU countries called for a de-escalation, an end to the use of force, and the urgent "release all detained protesters".

President Lukashenko was also urged to "initiate a dialogue with the Belarusian people", with EU countries ready to offer mediation efforts for a peaceful resolution.

On Wednesday, Lithuania's Foreign Minister Linas Linkevicius told Euronews that inaction from the EU "is not an option".


Meanwhile, Czech Foreign Minister Tomás Petricek also tweeted that he has summoned the Belarusian ambassador to Prague, dismissing allegations from Alexander Lukashenko that the Czech Republic was behind opposition protests in Belarus.

Punitive measures against Belarus must be supported unanimously by all 27 EU member states.

In 2016, the bloc lifted most sanctions it had imposed against Belarus after political prisoners were freed and protests allowed to take place.

Hungary is a closest ally to Poland only as much as a Russian trojan can be, I guess, not that I'm a big fan of that alliance. :hmm:
#15113541
Political Interest wrote:How does Lukashenko sleep at night with the repressions?

Does his conscience not hurt him?

Never change, PI. Never change. :)
#15113548
Patrickov wrote:There are worse offenders than him, and they still sleep at night.

The reason is simple: If they don't do that, it's them who die!


But if that sort of life requires you to forever lose yourself by committing horrible acts then why would anyone choose it?

Do they not fear how they will answer to the Lord?

Potemkin wrote:Never change, PI. Never change. :)


Over the years I think I changed, unfortunately. But now finally I think I know the way back :).

Beren wrote:Lukashenko may sleep badly only if he's so much worried that he can lose power that he can't sleep well.


How can he not be worried about hurting people?
#15113550
Political Interest wrote:But if that sort of life requires you to forever lose yourself by committing horrible acts then why would anyone choose it?

Do they not fear how they will answer to the Lord?

"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" - Mark 8:36

Over the years I think I changed, unfortunately. But now finally I think I know the way back :).

Before we can truly find ourselves, PI, we must first lose ourselves. :)

How can he not be worried about hurting people?

Some people have little or no empathy for others, PI. This may be difficult for you to understand, but it is an undoubted fact. :|
#15113555
Political Interest wrote:How can he not be worried about hurting people?

Because he simply considers it a legitimate and necessary means of keeping power, however, maybe he'd consider all means possible and necessary legitimate.
#15113602
Political Interest wrote:But if that sort of life requires you to forever lose yourself by committing horrible acts then why would anyone choose it?

Do they not fear how they will answer to the Lord?



Not sure for Western leaders, but others like Xi Jinping are atheist, so we can assume that they don't fear that, because they believe they have no one to answer but to themselves and history -- as long as they are victorious.
#15113626
Beren wrote:"We are interested in EU decisions based on dialogue that do not make it impossible to build future relations between Belarus and the European Union, nor do they reject the Eastern Partnership program," said Szijjarto

Lukashenko has asked Putin to be ready to send in the tanks.

“He and I agreed: at our first request they will provide comprehensive security assistance to ensure Belarus’s security.”

— 15 Aug. 2020
#15113639
ingliz wrote:Lukashenko has asked Putin to be ready to send in the tanks.

“He and I agreed: at our first request they will provide comprehensive security assistance to ensure Belarus’s security.”

— 15 Aug. 2020

Like they ensured Crimea's security, I guess. :hmm:

The Financial Times wrote:"So I had a long and thorough discussion about the situation with the president of Russia. I was even a bit surprised by how up to date he is on what’s going on,” he [Lukashenko] said.

As if it's his own country, huh? :lol:
#15113685
100-200k Rally in Minsk and probably over a million in the whole country today. Lukashenko managed to get 10k for his rally by bringing budget workers from whole country :lol: His toast.
#15113716
The whole country seems to be on the street. There were huge demonstration in Minsk and all major towns and even villages (Mogilev, Grodno, Brest, Pinsk, Minsk, ... ). Apparently, workers from state enterprises have also joined the protests. There is a good chance that Lukashenko is toppled.

And what is Putin going to do about it? Send in Russian troops? Getting foreign soldiers to suppress his own people would destroy Lukashenko's credibility for good.






#15113738
I was right about Crimea, I can predict the outcome here alongside some minor variable quantities. Whether Lukashenko goes or stays, Russia is going to appropriate Belarus in its entirety as it did Crimea. The strategic importance to Moscow is blatant, so no other outcome exists.
#15113786
Igor Antunov wrote:I was right about Crimea, I can predict the outcome here alongside some minor variable quantities. Whether Lukashenko goes or stays, Russia is going to appropriate Belarus in its entirety as it did Crimea. The strategic importance to Moscow is blatant, so no other outcome exists.


If I remember correctly you also predicted Russia would swallow all of Russian-speaking Ukraine. Nothing of the sort happened.
#15113797
Atlantis wrote:The whole country seems to be on the street.

Population of Belarus: 9,449,323 people (100%)

Demonstrators: 200,000 (2%)

If the security forces continue to back him, he's safe enough.

And why wouldn't they?

"We have managed to take steps to anticipate and thwart a major plan to destabilise Belarus (this is not a joke or a scare tactic) and bring a new Maidan. The masks have been ripped off the puppets we have here and the puppet masters, who are sitting beyond Belarus’ borders."

— Lukashenko
#15113800
ingliz wrote:Population of Belarus: 9,449,323 people (100%)

Demonstrators: 200,000 (2%)

If the security forces continue to back him, he's safe enough.

And why wouldn't they?

"We have managed to take steps to anticipate and thwart a major plan to destabilise Belarus (this is not a joke or a scare tactic) and bring a new Maidan. The masks have been ripped off the puppets we have here and the puppet masters, who are sitting beyond Belarus’ borders."

— Lukashenko

Unless his own inner circle decide to rid themselves of him (as happened to Ceaucescu and Mubarak, for example), then Lukashenko is safe. And I seriously doubt his own inner circle will move against him, for fear of what Putin's reaction would be. No, I don't think Lukashenko is drafting his resignation speech just yet. Lol.
#15113808
Lukashenko might not be on his way out at this very moment but this is a terrible position to be in.

He can't give in to the protesters demands as that will only reinforce their will and determination.
He can choose to let his security services crack down violently and risk inflaming the situation to the point of never being able to back down. Ignoring the protests and silently bring in some reforms, reassuring both Russia and the EU that they should back him in fear of the other seems like his only play.

Compared to other former 'colour revolutions' in the region, I've yet to hear of much outside interference in Belarusian affairs but perhaps those will surface?
#15113809
MadMonk wrote:Lukashenko might not be on his way out at this very moment but this is a terrible position to be in.

Agreed. But, as Mel Brooks once said, it's good to be king. And Lukashenko is still the king of Belarus.

He can't give in to the protesters demands as that will only reinforce their will and determination.
He can choose to let his security services crack down violently and risk inflaming the situation to the point of never being able to back down. Ignoring the protests and silently bring in some reforms, reassuring both Russia and the EU that they should back him in fear of the other seems like his only play.

Agreed.

Compared to other former 'colour revolutions' in the region, I've yet to hear of much outside interference in Belarusian affairs but perhaps those will surface?

The West got burned in Georgia and, yes, in Ukraine too. And Belarus is, if anything, of even greater strategic concern to Moscow. And Putin will stay hands-off for as long as he can, for obvious reasons. But if he has to intervene in Belarus then he will.
#15113810
ingliz wrote:Population of Belarus: 9,449,323 people (100%)

Demonstrators: 200,000 (2%)

If the security forces continue to back him, he's safe enough.

And why wouldn't they?

"We have managed to take steps to anticipate and thwart a major plan to destabilise Belarus (this is not a joke or a scare tactic) and bring a new Maidan. The masks have been ripped off the puppets we have here and the puppet masters, who are sitting beyond Belarus’ borders."

— Lukashenko


200k was just in Minsk which is around 10% of the population of Minsk.

Overall there was a huge number which is not possible to clearly count.

Modern statistical analysis has numerous times shown that a participation of 3% or above almost in 100% of the cases leads to the some sort of change if not outright taking of power by the protesters.

Lukashenko tried the crackdown for the first 3-4 starting days with dozens dead and thousands arrested, tortured etc. It only made the situation worse. So right now this plan has been cancelled.

For those who are a bit more cynical about all this things: Russian sattelite states are collapsing due to economic incompetence and outright totalitarianism because Europe is just around the corner that managed to fix the situation in the X Soviet sattelite states or republics. People want change.(Both better economic and political) If Russia want to keep its "sphere of influence" then it will have to become economically succesful and not just a pumping station/mineral mine but it will not be able to do it without becoming democratic and liberal. So we have what we have.
#15113828
JohnRawls wrote:Modern statistical analysis has... shown

Show me.

People want change.

What the people want is irrelevant.

You seem to believe that armies exist to fight and win wars. In much of the world, the purpose of an army is to keep the regime in power.
Last edited by ingliz on 17 Aug 2020 14:23, edited 3 times in total.
  • 1
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10
  • 11
  • 15

EU is not prepared on nuclear war, but Russia,[…]

It is implausible that the IDF could not or would[…]

Moving on to the next misuse of language that sho[…]

There is no reason to have a state at all unless w[…]