[Doug64]

Why do conservatives want to keep the police system as it is when it kills so many civilians?

Except it doesn’t kill “so many” civilians. In 2018, there were 209 Blacks shot to death by police. In that same year, there were 2,925 Blacks murdered, 2,600 of them by other Blacks. Poor Blacks should be lauding the police as their protectors and doing everything they can to help them. It’s looking more and more like many of them are going to get to learn what their lives are like without that protection.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Doug64

The fact that black people deal with high levels of violence in the USA does not excuse cops from being violent to black people.

Are you arguing that black people deserve to be mistreated by cops because they are violent to each other?

It certainly seems like you are either excusing police violence with this factoid, or are trying to distract from the conversation about cops by starting a discussion about how violent black people are.

[Godstud]

Are you arguing that black people deserve to be mistreated by cops because they are violent to each other?

Yes. That is exactly their argument, although they will argue around it.

It is all about trying to excuse systemic racism and violence against black people. They even go so far as to try to make it so you cannot define what black or white is, in an attempt to deceive, and distract.

[Julian658]

@Doug64

The fact that black people deal with high levels of violence in the USA does not excuse cops from being violent to black people.

Are you arguing that black people deserve to be mistreated by cops because they are violent to each other?

It certainly seems like you are either excusing police violence with this factoid, or are trying to distract from the conversation about cops by starting a discussion about how violent black people are.

Black people do more violent crime than white people.
Black people tend to resist arrest more often than white people.
The cops become burned out and lose their patience. They are human too.
The best way to avoid the cops is not to do crime.

[Rancid]

The best way to avoid the cops is not to do crime.

True, but it doesn't always work. I used to get hassled by cops all the time for doing nothing. Doesn't happen anymore, probably cause I'm older now.

[Pants-of-dog]

We do not actually know if black people break the law more often. or resist arrest more often. At best, you could argue that black people get charged with crimes and resisting arrest more often. But the reason they get charged with crimes more often can be due to many causes, only one of which is actually committing more crime.

Police targeting black people for brutality and killings because they have become tired and impatient with black people is not a valid justification. This should be obvious and not require mentioning. It does not matter if police are human too. If someone is unable to do the job in a professional manner, then they could do something else with their career. Waste management, for example, saves more lives than police do.

And Elijah McClain and Breonna Taylor and Atatiana Jefferson are clear examples that not breaking the law does not protect black people from being killed by police.

[Julian658]

We do not actually know if black people break the law more often. or resist arrest more often. At best, you could argue that black people get charged with crimes and resisting arrest more often. But the reason they get charged with crimes more often can be due to many causes, only one of which is actually committing more crime.

ON a per capita basis the blacks come in contact with police at a higher rate. Cops do not preferentially kill more blacks, however, they are likely to rough up blacks ahead of whites. These were the findings of Fryer a black Harvard University scholar Roland G. Fryer.

An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force
Roland G. Fryer
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer ... igures.pdf

Police targeting black people for brutality and killings because they have become tired and impatient with black people is not a valid justification. This should be obvious and not require mentioning. It does not matter if police are human too. If someone is unable to do the job in a professional manner, then they could do something else with their career. Waste management, for example, saves more lives than police do.

I agree, the police as an institution has issues, however, it is not racism, it is a left problem: POWERFUL UNIONS. Sure, at the individual level some cops can be racist, that is unavoidable.

And Elijah McClain and Breonna Taylor and Atatiana Jefferson are clear examples that not breaking the law does not protect black people from being killed by police.

For every black person killed there is a comparable white person that died in the same circumstances. I am not implying that two wrongs make a right. Al I am saying is that the cops in America are poorly trained.

[Pants-of-dog]

I find it odds how many conservatives refuse to read the papers they cite.

Regardless of what some paper nay say, it is still true that it is an unverifiable claim that blacks commit more crimes.

And regardless of police unions, police should not be using their own lack of professionalism to excuse their brutality and killings.

And it seems that everyone agrees that simply not breaking the law will not protect black people from police brutality and killings.

[Drlee]

For every black person killed there is a comparable white person that died in the same circumstances. I am not implying that two wrongs make a right. Al I am saying is that the cops in America are poorly trained.

If you believe the police suffer from a training problem then why are you endlessly blaming black people for their relations with police? Which is it?

Do you see now why we endlessly call you racist.

While I agree that cops in the US could use some training I would assert that there is not a single cop who has not been trained on the use of force. What is lacking is enforcement of the standards virtually all departments have. Once we hold leadership responsible for the actions of their officers things will change. Not get easier on criminals. Simply more cops will follow the rules already in place.

Whenever I see a chief of police "take responsibility" I know for a fact that there are many first line and senior leaders who have already failed. And likely are being protected by police unions.

[Chad]

Protesting is all about pushing the bounds of society, and protesters are NOT stupid for staying out past an unreasonable curfew imposed by a state unwilling to address the real problems.

What are the real problems that are not getting addressed by the state? Who makes those decisions in said state? Who says that Protesting is all about pushing the bounds of society? What are the bounds of society? Why are there bounds of society? What are the actual reason for the protests other than Anarchy?

[Chad]

I find it odds how many conservatives refuse to read the papers they cite.

Regardless of what some paper nay say, it is still true that it is an unverifiable claim that blacks commit more crimes.

And regardless of police unions, police should not be using their own lack of professionalism to excuse their brutality and killings.

And it seems that everyone agrees that simply not breaking the law will not protect black people from police brutality and killings.

The lack of work ethic created by decades of filling the feeders for all the HUD Gheto residents (Fentanyl Kings and Queens) that continually complain about poor me and lordy lordy the whites is destroying all my opportunities to advance myself as they trade wic for cash and neglect their own families. It is a verifiable claim that blacks commit more crimes in America with the FBI Statistics and actual studies that prove that Black moms abort 5 times as many babies as do White moms each year. BLM is a Phony. Kamala is a Phony. All Antifa Loving, BLM Supporting, Police Defunding, Leftist, Communist Democrats should be Tarred and Feathered in the streets as traitors to America's Great Republic. Go Get a Job or two or three if you have two and earn as much as you desire to work for. Only America offers an opportunity to advance your family or yourself based on your ability and desire to succeed. America has no place for communism or White Guilt. This American is for every man woman and child that is a law abiding, taxpaying, legal citizen and the Democrats will never succeed in destroying the American Dream. God Bless President Trump. Thank God the Hawaiian Muslim slumlord Pimp wannabe's illegal mandates and tax penalties are gone forever. It will be so nice after President Trump's second term begins and Hawaiian Barry and his Bean Picker Wife slowly disappear back into the shadows from when-st they came.

[Godstud]

What are the real problems that are not getting addressed by the state? Who makes those decisions in said state? Who says that Protesting is all about pushing the bounds of society? What are the bounds of society? Why are there bounds of society? What are the actual reason for the protests other than Anarchy?

You know the answers to those questions and I cannot deal with willful ignorance on your part. I have neither the time, nor the crayons, to show you.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Chad

Do you have an argument? If so, please clarify it. Thanks!

[Rich]

It is all about trying to excuse systemic racism and violence against black people. They even go so far as to try to make it so you cannot define what black or white is, in an attempt to deceive, and distract.

The typical Liberal loves the idea of science as long as it conforms to his religious dogmas but can't actually practice it. Any scientific endeavour must start with the definitions of terms. The terms and categories and boundaries between those categories can be renegotiated and redefined at later points, but terms must be defined. Lets start with some very basic science of racism. There are 3 types of racism.

1 Cultural
2 Class
3 Morphological

Most of human existence was dominated by Cultural racism, there was no class differentiation and nearly all the groups that were in conflict would not have had significant morphological differences. From about five and a half thousand years ago we see the emergence of differentiated socio economic classes. That the royalties and aristocracies thought of themselves as a race apart from the lower lesser classes is well documented. Some even went as far as calling themselves Gods. The agrarian cultures of the big empires were apartheid societies but an apartheid based on class not morphology.

The European colonies and the successor states such as the United States, South Africa, Australia and Cuba, where morphological racism has been the dominate social divide are the exceptions of human history, The great problem intellectually is that the poster child for morphological racism is Adolph Hitler, but no one seems to have noticed that he was a Cultural racist who tried to dress up his cultural racism as morphological racism and hence all the absurd Nazi pseudo science around race.

Cultural Marxism the dominate ideology of our time, tries to pretend that we have this unseen ocean of extreme morphological racism. But wants to avoid telling us what these supposed morphological racial categories, that everyone is obsessively discriminating against are.

[Godstud]

The typical Liberal loves the idea of science as long as it conforms to his religious dogmas but can't actually practice it. Any scientific endeavour must start with the definitions of terms.

You aren't interested in doing anything other than distracting from the systemic racism that is prevalent in the West, with "definitions" and other stupid shit, designed to downplay and deceive. You haven't even a fucking clue what a liberal is, you right-wing mouthpiece.

Cultural Marxism the dominate ideology of our time, tries to pretend that we have this unseen ocean of extreme morphological racism. But wants to avoid telling us what these supposed morphological racial categories, that everyone is obsessively discriminating against are.

Your conspiracy theories are stupid, and make you look like a fool. To you everything is "Cultural Marxism". It's dumb as shit.

[Rich]

"definitions" and other stupid shit,[/quotes]
No definitions are not stupid. I'm sorry if you find science and the proven techniques of STEM upsetting.

Ok I'll try not to get angry with you and have Buddhist compassion for you as you obliviously seem to have some kind of learning / reading / comprehnsion problem.

Cultural Marxism is not a conspiracy theory.

Look I've put in it bold letters for you on a separate line. Not that there's anything wrong with conspiracy theories. I am absolutely certain there was a conspiracy behind 9/11. The fact that the four planes crashed with in a couple of hours of each other was not a coincidence in my view. However while I believe that the Al Qaeda conspiracy theory is the overwhelmingly most likely to be correct. I still believe that alleged members of this alleged conspiracy like Khalid Sheik Mohammed should have been entitled to due process and should hence be immediately released, massively compensated, given American citizenship and unconditionally pardoned for any and all past crimes that they may have committed.

Cultural Marxism is a confluence of 3 phenomena:

1 A shift in strategy by orthodox Marxists.
2 The rise of a whole number of Marxist related ideologies where socio-economic class is not the primary divide.
3 Elite overproduction.

[Godstud]

Cultural Marxism is a big fat conspiracy theory:


Since you like definitions so much...
cultural marxism
a really bigoted quack conspiracy theory wherein conservatives assert that there is a conspiracy where black people, lgbt people, leftists, immigrants, and anti-colonial advocates are seen as working together to instill Marxism under the pretense of multiculturalism.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... %20marxism

Cultural Marxism
Frankfurt School#Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Cultura ... edirect=no

Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory
Definition and culture war usage
Further information: Culture war
From the late 1990s, the Frankfurt School has been the object of a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory that identifies the school as the origin of an ongoing academic and intellectual movement, referred to by the theory's proponents as "Cultural Marxism", which allegedly intends undermine and destroy Western culture and values.[46] According to the theory, the Frankfurt School and other Marxist theorists were part of a conspiracy to attack Western society by undermining traditionalist conservatism and Christianity using the 1960s counterculture, multiculturalism, progressive politics and political correctness, which are portrayed as outgrowths of critical theory.[47][48][49][50][51] Contrary to what is commonly claimed by the conspiracy theorists, there is no academic school of thought or movement known as "Cultural Marxism".[52] As Joan Braune writes, scholars of the Frankfurt School are called "Critical Theorists", rather than "Cultural Marxists", and various postmodernist and feminist scholars who are often referred to by conspiracy theorists as "Cultural Marxists" have limited association with the Frankfurt School, Marxism, or critical theory, and do not refer to themselves as such.[52] "In short", writes Braune, "Cultural Marxism does not exist—not only is the conspiracy theory version false, but there is no intellectual movement by that name".[52]

This conspiracy theory is associated with American religious fundamentalists and paleoconservatives such as William S. Lind, Pat Buchanan, and Paul Weyrich; but also holds currency among the alt-right, white nationalists, Neo-Nazi organizations, and the neo-reactionary movement.[53][54] It originated with Michael Minnicino's 1992 essay "New Dark Age: Frankfurt School and 'Political Correctness'", published in a Lyndon LaRouche movement journal.[55] In 1998, Weyrich presented his version of the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory in a speech to the Conservative Leadership Conference of the Civitas Institute and then published the speech in his syndicated Culture war letter, wherein the term "Cultural Marxism" is identified as a synonym for political correctness.[56] At Weyrich's request, William S. Lind wrote a short history of his conception of Cultural Marxism for the Free Congress Foundation. Lind defined "Cultural Marxism" as "a brand of Western Marxism...commonly known as 'multiculturalism' or, less formally, Political Correctness".[48] In the history, Lind identifies the presence of openly gay people on television as proof of Cultural Marxist control over the mass media and claims that Herbert Marcuse considered a coalition of "blacks, students, feminist women, and homosexuals" as a vanguard of cultural revolution.[47][48][57]

In 2014, Lind pseudonymously published Victoria: A Novel of 4th Generation Warfare, by Thomas Hobbes, about a societal apocalypse in which Cultural Marxism deposes traditional conservatism as the culture of the Western world. Ultimately, a Christian military victory deposes social liberalism and reestablishes a traditionalist and theocratic socioeconomic order based upon British Victorian morality of the late 19th century.[58][59] The anti-Marxism of Lind and Weyrich advocates political confrontation and intellectual opposition to Cultural Marxism with "a vibrant cultural conservatism" composed of "retro-culture fashions", a return to railroads as public transport, and an agrarian culture of self-reliance, modeled after that of the Christian Amish folk.[60] In the Dialectic of Counter-Enlightenment: The Frankfurt School as Scapegoat of the Lunatic Fringe (2011), the historian Martin Jay said that Lind's Free Congress Foundation documentary video of conservative counter-culture, called Political Correctness: The Frankfurt School (1999), which promoted the theory, was effective propaganda because it:

"spawned a number of condensed textual versions, which were reproduced on a number of radical, right-wing sites. These, in turn, led to a plethora of new videos, now available on YouTube, which feature an odd cast of pseudo-experts regurgitating exactly the same line. The message is numbingly simplistic: All the 'ills' of modern American culture, from feminism, affirmative action, sexual liberation, racial equality, multiculturalism and gay rights to the decay of traditional education, and even environmentalism, are ultimately attributable to the insidious intellectual influence of the members of the Institute for Social Research who came to America in the 1930s.[55]

Aspects of the conspiracy
Cultural pessimism
In the essay "New Dark Age: The Frankfurt School and 'Political Correctness'" (1992), Michael Minnicino presented a precursor of the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory on behalf of the Schiller Institute of the LaRouche political movement. Minnicino said the "Jewish intellectuals" of the Frankfurt School promoted modern art to make cultural pessimism the spirit of the counter-culture of the 1960s, based upon the counter-culture of the Wandervogel, the socially liberal German youth movement whose Swiss Monte Verità commune was the 19th-century predecessor of Western counter-culture.[61][55][62][63]

In Fascism: Fascism and Culture (2003), professor and Oxford fellow Matthew Feldman traced the etymology of the term "Cultural Marxism" back to the anti-Semitic term Kulturbolschewismus (Cultural Bolshevism), which Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party used to assert that Jewish cultural influence was the source of German social degeneration under the liberal régime of the Weimar Republic (1918–1933), and also the cause of social degeneration in the West.[64]

Othering of political opponents
In the article titled Hate Crimes, Vol. 5, Heidi Beirich stated that the conspiracy theory is used to demonize various conservative "bêtes noires" including feminists, homosexuals, secular humanists, multiculturalists, sex educators, environmentalists, immigrants, and black nationalists.[65]

In Europe, the Norwegian far-right terrorist Anders Behring Breivik quoted Lind's usage of the term "Cultural Marxism" in his political manifesto 2083: A European Declaration of Independence, writing that the "sexually transmitted disease (STD) epidemic in Western Europe is a result of cultural Marxism", that "Cultural Marxism defines Muslims, feminist women, homosexuals, and some additional minority groups, as virtuous, and they view ethnic Christian European men as evil", and that "The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg is a cultural-Marxist-controlled political entity." About 90 minutes before killing 77 people in his terrorist attacks in Norway on July 22nd, 2011, Breivik e-mailed 1003 people a copy of his 1500-page manifesto and a copy of Political Correctness: A Short History of an Ideology, which was edited by Lind and published by the Free Congress Research and Education Foundation.[66][67][68][69]

In the article titled Collectivists, Communists, Labor Bosses, and Treason: The Tea Parties as Right-wing, Populist Counter-subversion Panic, Chip Berlet identifies the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory as an ideological basis of the Tea Party movement within the Republican Party. The Tea Party identifies as a right-wing populist movement; its claims of social subversion echo earlier white-nationalist claims of racial, social, and cultural subversion. The economic elites use populist rhetoric to encourage counter-subversion panics. Thus, a large, middle-class white constituency is politically deceived into siding with the ruling-class social and economic elites to defend their relative and precarious socioeconomic position in the middle class. Cultural scapegoats, such as mythical conspiracies claiming that collectivists, communists, labor bosses, and nonwhite citizens and immigrants are to blame for the economic, political, and social failures of free-market capitalism. In that manner, under the guise of patriotism, economic libertarianism, traditional Christian values, and nativism, right-wing accusations of Cultural Marxism defended the racist and sexist social hierarchies specifically opposed to the "big government" policies of the Obama administration.[70][71]

In the essay Cultural Marxism and the Radical Right, the political scientist Jérôme Jamin said that "next to the global dimension of the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory, there is its innovative and original dimension, which lets its racist authors avoid racist discourses, and pretend to be defenders of democracy in their respective countries".[72] The essay titled How Trump's Paranoid White House Sees 'Deep State' Enemies on all Sides reported that an employee within the Trump administration by the name of Richard Higgins was dismissed from the U.S. National Security Council because he published a memorandum called POTUS & Political Warfare, wherein Higgins claimed the existence of an alleged left-wing conspiracy to destroy the Trump presidency and that "American public intellectuals of Cultural Marxism, foreign Islamicists, and globalist bankers, the news media, and politicians from the Republican and the Democrat parties were attacking Trump because he represents an existential threat to the cultural Marxist memes that dominate the prevailing cultural narrative in the U.S."[73][74][75]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt ... acy_theory

Unwrapping the 'Cultural Marxism' Nonsense the Alt-Right Loves
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/78mn ... -alt-right

Cultural Marxism: far-right conspiracy theory in Australia’s culture wars
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... lture_wars

'Cultural Marxism': a uniting theory for rightwingers who love to play the victim
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... the-victim

The Cultural Marxism Conspiracy Thrives in Bolsonaro’s Brazil
https://www.fairobserver.com/insight/cu ... ews-00054/

[Chad]

Communism is Bad. Capitalism is good. Democrats = Communists Democrats are Bad. President Trump = Not A Communist President Trump is Good. Cultural Marxism = Systemic Racism. Racism is Bad. Democrats, Communism, and Communists are Bad. Really simple if you are not a Bad Person = Racist Democrat that prefers Communism.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Chad

I am still waiting for you to clarify your argument. Please do so.

[Chad]

Pants-of-dog wrote:
Really? Ignoring the fact that black people deal with racism on an everyday basis in “non-racist”?
I do not believe that Black People deal with racism on an everyday basis. Which is part of agreeing that the socialist Democrats created a false narrative with the Hollywood Communists about the Boogie man that comes in the middle of the night like all crackers do, and drags some poor colored man from his bed as his loving family cries lordy lordy help us help us as he is yanked up on a tree branch and hung to death for no reason other than the color of his skin. This argument is also about how Systemic Racism in America is a false narrative created by Communists to unite all the criminals and grifters that give up on trying to get ahead in America by generating an argument that a certain group exactly like them is oppressed by everyone else and that it is impossible for them to succeed without the Communists that instigated the entire false narrative that got swallowed hook, line, and sinker. Blacks make up 1/3 of America. Jews make up 2 to 3 percent. Blacks are not oppressed and racism is a thing of the past. Capitalism allows all to be free. Communism is racism in the highest degree. The Communist elites like Bernie sanders that drive 200 thousand dollar Audi's will always try to grift on those that accept an offer for a free ride from Communism that only costs one's basic freedoms....Manifest Destiny is to die for. Patriots of all colors in America realize that Racism is an excuse for those who cannot be successful or are not willing to work hard to become successful in America. Only in America can everyone become as successful as they desire. It is the American Dream and all law abiding tax paying legal American Citizens can reach this goal of success without Communism. The Democrat Party is a promoter of Racism and Communism. I

The lack of work ethic created by decades of filling the feeders for all the HUD Gheto residents (Fentanyl Kings and Queens) that continually complain about poor me and lordy lordy the whites is destroying all my opportunities to advance myself as they trade wic for cash and neglect their own families. It is a verifiable claim that blacks commit more crimes in America with the FBI Statistics and actual studies that prove that Black moms abort 5 times as many babies as do White moms each year. BLM is a Phony. Kamala is a Phony. All Antifa Loving, BLM Supporting, Police Defunding, Leftist, Communist Democrats should be Tarred and Feathered in the streets as traitors to America's Great Republic. Go Get a Job or two or three if you have two and earn as much as you desire to work for. Only America offers an opportunity to advance your family or yourself based on your ability and desire to succeed. America has no place for communism or White Guilt. This American is for every man woman and child that is a law abiding, taxpaying, legal citizen and the Democrats will never succeed in destroying the American Dream. God Bless President Trump. Thank God the Hawaiian Muslim slumlord Pimp wannabe's illegal mandates and tax penalties are gone forever. It will be so nice after President Trump's second term begins and Hawaiian Barry and his Bean Picker Wife slowly disappear back into the shadows from when-st they came.

Maybe just maybe clarity is a matter of stepping back and getting a bigger picture of who is involved and what they want.....And what they are willing to give to get it.