CCP announces plan to take control of China's private sector - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15121010
Igor Antunov wrote:Lol, if chinese economy (only major economy still growing) imploded, then the west died decades ago.


Here are some points for you regarding this Igor:

1) Covid as an example. There has been almost no new data since they shut down their posts in march this year. Literally all other places in the world are still having Ups and Downs etc while only China, a country with the largest population in the world and not being so developed on the per capita basis for some reason says it is all okay. Also add here that they have acted like clowns when it all started.

2) The economic data do not contract in China and there have been studies on this. Basically the end idea of those studies is that even Chinese aknowledged that their own local "governors" rig the data to a certain degree not to get fired or demoted.

3) If you look at the "common" people perspective on youtube lets say from the ones that are available in English. Lets say ADVChina or serpenza or others. They all continue saying the same thing. The economic situation is a lie right now. It has been improving since the 90s sure but from 2008 it only has gotten worse. Larger unemployment, larger prosecutions, no functioning legal systems especially for non-Chinese born, discrimination, Xi era of opressivness etc

4) Historically every country will run in to the problem of the middle income gap as they are developing. The only way it has been solved up to date is by liberalising the economy, opening it up to the external market(inner market) and going the general liberal democratic route regarding political freedoms and so on. There is one exception of Singapoure for this. (They are only on paper democratic). China has not opened its own market and has no real liberal democratic freedoms. So the chance of them improving beyond what they have right now in to a classical high wage/high developed country is very unlikely.

There is much more that I can write on this. But let us see what your response will be.
#15121011
Igor wrote:According to the new provisions, private firms will need a certain amount of CCP registered employees, which is already a long-term practise in large private firms but not smaller ones.


These quotas exist to guarantee well-paying jobs to party members.

There's a big Swiss bank that hired children and friends of high-ranking CCP functionaries. They turned out to be unprofessional and incompetent but earned high salaries nonetheless. It's the kind of shit companies do to get market access.
#15121012
JohnRawls wrote:Here are some points for you regarding this Igor:

1) Covid as an example. There has been almost no new data since they shut down their posts in march this year. Literally all other places in the world are still having Ups and Downs etc while only China, a country with the largest population in the world and not being so developed on the per capita basis for some reason says it is all okay. Also add here that they have acted like clowns when it all started.

2) The economic data do not contract in China and there have been studies on this. Basically the end idea of those studies is that even Chinese aknowledged that their own local "governors" rig the data to a certain degree not to get fired or demoted.

3) If you look at the "common" people perspective on youtube lets say from the ones that are available in English. Lets say ADVChina or serpenza or others. They all continue saying the same thing. The economic situation is a lie right now. It has been improving since the 90s sure but from 2008 it only has gotten worse. Larger unemployment, larger prosecutions, no functioning legal systems especially for non-Chinese born, discrimination, Xi era of opressivness etc

4) Historically every country will run in to the problem of the middle income gap as they are developing. The only way it has been solved up to date is by liberalising the economy, opening it up to the external market(inner market) and going the general liberal democratic route regarding political freedoms and so on. There is one exception of Singapoure for this. (They are only on paper democratic). China has not opened its own market and has no real liberal democratic freedoms. So the chance of them improving beyond what they have right now in to a classical high wage/high developed country is very unlikely.

There is much more that I can write on this. But let us see what your response will be.


1. There's plenty of data of the kind relevant to economics. All indicators from external suppliers and importers (no way to hide these third party goods measures) have shown a spike in consumer and manufacturing index back to pre-covid levels. i.e it's business as usual. As for Covid, why are people so quick to forget the decisive shutdown china conducted in Wuhan's province which lasted for more than 3 months? It was more decisive than that of south korea, and thus the virus never really made it out of Wuhan to the rest of China. You're not comparing a population of 1.4 billion potential infected \with that of italy or the US, you're comparing a provincial population of 60 million to that of other countries, and the stats line up nicely, given how strict measures were there in Wuhan itself and the surrounding towns. There was never an outbreak of note in shanghai, beijing, shenzhen, etc as a result.

2. Not quite. Old news. Like I said there is no way to hide external indicators, as millions of individuals and thousands of companies from abroad keep tabs on and engage with the internal Chinese market every week both directly and indirectly through partnerships, shipments and orders.

The official manufacturing purchasing managers’ index (PMI) was 51.1 for July, with a reading above 50.0 signifying growth in factory output
Non-manufacturing PMI was 54.2, with both surveys now reporting positive outlooks for five consecutive months

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-econ ... irus-shock

See also: China Imports Soar, Up Almost 90% Year-Over-Year
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-im ... 13696.html

No way to distort these figures. External assessment of internal market conditions based on trade engagement.

3. Both being bankrolled by Radio Free Asia, a falon gong organization. Both left the country, both use b-roll footage to serve a new audience as china critics. Their opinion is not relevant to the situation in China. See Barret channel, jayoe nation, etc. They live in the country and produce daily content, as independent youtubers not affiliated with any chinese or western media organizations or ngo's.

4. China is well past the 'middle income trap'. A situation more the result of a strict international economic regime that hobbled resource deprived developing countries, and benefited established rich countries, for decades. China is creating its own global economic system by exporting its industrial capacity, so that no longer exists as a reality for developing countries, itself included.

See: U.S. reacts angrily to losing WTO ruling on China tariffs.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/wto-ch ... -1.5724881

China is quickly co-opting western institutions for its own gain and changing the world economic order as a result.

Japan’s new prime minister vows to protect economy, maintain relations with US and China


See also: “In the first 7 months of 2020, China became EU's top trading partner, a position previously held by the United States.”


Remember the post ww2 'trans-atlantic' partnership that cemented the US as a key western arbiter of the world order? Yeah me too, but that ended decisively this year.

These quotas exist to guarantee well-paying jobs to party members.

There's a big Swiss bank that hired children and friends of high-ranking CCP functionaries. They turned out to be unprofessional and incompetent but earned high salaries nonetheless. It's the kind of shit companies do to get market access.


800 million lifted out of poverty in 40 years. Focus on things that matter instead of Muh party corruption.
#15121022
Igor Antunov wrote:1. There's plenty of data of the kind relevant to economics. All indicators from external suppliers and importers (no way to hide these third party goods measures) have shown a spike in consumer and manufacturing index back to pre-covid levels. i.e it's business as usual. As for Covid, why are people so quick to forget the decisive shutdown china conducted in Wuhan's province which lasted for more than 3 months? It was more decisive than that of south korea, and thus the virus never really made it out of Wuhan to the rest of China. You're not comparing a population of 1.4 billion potential infected \with that of italy or the US, you're comparing a provincial population of 60 million to that of other countries, and the stats line up nicely, given how strict measures were there in Wuhan itself and the surrounding towns. There was never an outbreak of note in shanghai, beijing, shenzhen, etc as a result.

2. Not quite. Old news. Like I said there is no way to hide external indicators, as millions of individuals and thousands of companies from abroad keep tabs on and engage with the internal Chinese market every week both directly and indirectly through partnerships, shipments and orders.


https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-econ ... irus-shock

See also: China Imports Soar, Up Almost 90% Year-Over-Year
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-im ... 13696.html

No way to distort these figures. External assessment of internal market conditions based on trade engagement.

3. Both being bankrolled by Radio Free Asia, a falon gong organization. Both left the country, both use b-roll footage to serve a new audience as china critics. Their opinion is not relevant to the situation in China. See Barret channel, jayoe nation, etc. They live in the country and produce daily content, as independent youtubers not affiliated with any chinese or western media organizations or ngo's.

4. China is well past the 'middle income trap'. A situation more the result of a strict international economic regime that hobbled resource deprived developing countries, and benefited established rich countries, for decades. China is creating its own global economic system by exporting its industrial capacity, so that no longer exists as a reality for developing countries, itself included.

See: U.S. reacts angrily to losing WTO ruling on China tariffs.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/wto-ch ... -1.5724881

China is quickly co-opting western institutions for its own gain and changing the world economic order as a result.

Japan’s new prime minister vows to protect economy, maintain relations with US and China


See also: “In the first 7 months of 2020, China became EU's top trading partner, a position previously held by the United States.”


Remember the post ww2 'trans-atlantic' partnership that cemented the US as a key western arbiter of the world order? Yeah me too, but that ended decisively this year.



800 million lifted out of poverty in 40 years. Focus on things that matter instead of Muh party corruption.


Regarding 1 and 2: There are tons of ways to hide it. The economic indicators that can be tracked and the industries are in decline right now. Somebody already did measurements of industrial goods shipments in to and out of China and they were in decline. So China adjusted it so that they say "Well yeah our industrial production is in decline but we have growth in other sectors like construction etc" The problem is that although we can monitor industrial good shipsments to a degree inside and outside of China, there are plenty of industries within the country that we can't track like construction in any reasonable way. So right now, most of the so called reported growth is based in the industries that Europe and US can't really track.

Regarding youtubers: I will check the names out that you mentioned so let me see what they have to say. As for ADVChina and sepenza and others. You can't blame all of them for "Being sponsored" by somebody. It is their opinion and the prelevant out of the things that i saw or heard.

Regarding the middle income gap: You are misunderstanding the issue. The issue is the pay for the average worker and the per capita gdp. The middle income gap implies that a country with middle incomes has a hard time escaping out of it because as the wages increase so does your low wage competitivness drops. Basically a process of factories moving out of your country while you try to create more jobs. This effect has been seen and getting worse with the trade war between China and US. Basically the official definition is that you need to beat the 1-15k USD per capita barrier. Nowadays the numbers can be larger because of inflation all the time but the general idea is that even succesful countries took 20-30 years to do it. China has been in the middle income category for 20 years now. Official definition of it is between 1-12k usd per capita. So if you relied on cheap manufacturing to grow your gdp and export industrial goods, now those factories are gonna need to increase wages or move abroad to cheaper places to produce. If that happens then either your goods become less competitive or you just loose the industry/factories in general. This creates unemployment that you always try to compensate by creating new jobs so you start stagnating of sorts. Some countries never managed to beat this barrier. Most that did had to rely on the full liberalisation of economy, opening to external and its own internal market, democracy, rule of law etc. Most of which China lacks nowadays.

And if you are going to say that China is developing some magic technology to counteract that. Then read on Chinese technological agenda. They admit that the technological agenda in China has more or less failed. The 2020-2025 target to achieve technological parity with Europe and US was not reached. Best estimates put the technological parity point to 2050. TLDR version, China is planning to steal more tech but doesn't understand that if they continue stealing and not developing then they are never gonna catch up. (My opinion)
#15121027
Igor Antunov wrote:
Still have it. Covid slowed everything right down to a stop in 2020. Extended Family have started building homes and hotels on it. Some without permission, but that's ok, they're family. I am yet to join in on the fun. There's an ancient Roman cemetery on it we discovered last year. I've found coins dating from the 2nd century AD there.

We have chunks of land all over the Balkans on both sides of the family. Old great great whatever the fuck grand daddy was an adopted knight turned noble in the austro-hungarian regime and managed to gobble up a bunch of real estate. But none of this land has suffered as much damage and abuse over the past 200 years as the chunk shown below.

Some company has been extracting prime marble and other material for cement from the hills for years. They've stolen tens of millions of dollars. We're organizing a team of lawyers to annihilate them and everything they hold dear. The evidence is smeared all over our land, they've turned it into an open cut disaster. Everything in red is ours, they will pay for their insolence.

Image

Ahh, that's cool. Well, good luck.




JohnRawls wrote:
As expected and predicted. China economy is going to implode at this rate. The mistakes in the system are pilling up. To be more precise, Chinese economy already imploded to some extent, it is just that the falsified Chinese statistics don't show it. Eventually, they won't be able to cover up all of the problems with faking statistics.


What mistakes exactly? I fail to see any. I think the Chinese are executing like fucking bosses (THis is the reason people are starting to fear and be worried about China's ambitions, it just looks like a train that can't be stopped). They have been playing the game better than anyway. I don't see how the CCP's tightening grip is a mistake at the moment. Especially when they are able to deliver in spades to the populace
#15121034
Rancid wrote:Ahh, that's cool. Well, good luck.






What mistakes exactly? I fail to see any. I think the Chinese are executing like fucking bosses (THis is the reason people are starting to fear and be worried about China's ambitions, it just looks like a train that can't be stopped). They have been playing the game better than anyway. I don't see how the CCP's tightening grip is a mistake at the moment. Especially when they are able to deliver in spades to the populace


The trick is that you are convinced that they are delivering spades to the population. What spades? Do you really think that they would need to crack down on Hong Kong, put millions of Ugyurs in to concentration camps(report today), supress Tibet, supress any freedom of speach and build firewalls to block the internet etc etc

Look at Putin as an example. When he was on a high horse and real change was happening in the late 90s and early 2000's he had no real need for this stuff. Nowadays they are passing security laws to record internet, poison their opposition, etc. This happens for a reason when the government feels that they are not fully in control anymore and dissent is rising. You don't crackdown when there is no dissent.

And in general, this is the wheel of fate that has turned numerous times already. Xis predecessors worked tirelessly to liberalise the country and the economy over time and had ideas of political liberalisation also. Now it is all rolling back like in many places in the past. History shows that this will be destructive in the end. Look at Belarus, look at Chili, look at Argentina etc. This is not a problem inherent to only communist but also any kind of democratic or centrist societies. If you revert to a hunta/totalitarianism, whatever gains you had will go down the shitter at worst and at best you will have semi-stagnation until you turn in to a democracy. The thing that Chinese did right was the economic reform before the actual political liberalisation of the country. That was the mistake of the USSR whos leaders were doing it the wrong way and also were severely incompetent when it came to the economy. But once again, once a country reaches a certain point in its development, you need to have liberalisation of the political sphere for the economy to grow also.

Although things like rule of law, seperation of power, checks and balances etc exist as social constructs, it doesn't mean that their effects are just political. Those social constructs are positives for economic growth. If you don't have them then they are detractors to your economic growth. Yes, you can develop your economy to a degree without them but a certain point your negatives are going to outweight the positives like low salaries. The classical benefits of low developed economies slowly disappear over time so you won't be able to rely on them anymore at some point. Low salaries increase once you become middle income. Regulations appear because business DOES have negative consequences if not conducted ethicly and so on. You can't keep your low taxes or government subsidies because salaries rise and you now need to build infrastructure and pay government servants more. Corruption starts eating up more and more of the pie without change in the ruling names/people.
#15121040
JohnRawls wrote:The trick is that you are convinced that they are delivering spades to the population. What spades? Do you really think that they would need to crack down on Hong Kong, put millions of Ugyurs in to concentration camps(report today), supress Tibet, supress any freedom of speach and build firewalls to block the internet etc etc


Dude, I've seen the development first hand (recall I used to travel there). They aren't building those apartments for no one right? Anyway as for the crackdown on HK and others. They are doing that as insurance. Stomp them out now, when you can, so that when the train slows down, those people aren't a problem since they have been eliminated already. Smart move.

JohnRawls wrote:Look at Putin as an example. When he was on a high horse and real change was happening in the late 90s and early 2000's he had no real need for this stuff. Nowadays they are passing security laws to record internet, poison their opposition, etc. This happens for a reason when the government feels that they are not fully in control anymore and dissent is rising. You don't crackdown when there is no dissent.


Perhaps, but I go back to my insurance counter point. That these crackdowns are an investment for the future, it's not about there being an issue right now that they are addressing.

JohnRawls wrote:And in general, this is the wheel of fate that has turned numerous times already. Xis predecessors worked tirelessly to liberalise the country and the economy over time and had ideas of political liberalisation also. Now it is all rolling back like in many places in the past. History shows that this will be destructive in the end. Look at Belarus, look at Chili, look at Argentina etc. This is not a problem inherent to only communist but also any kind of democratic or centrist societies. If you revert to a hunta/totalitarianism, whatever gains you had will go down the shitter at worst and at best you will have semi-stagnation until you turn in to a democracy. The thing that Chinese did right was the economic reform before the actual political liberalisation of the country. That was the mistake of the USSR whos leaders were doing it the wrong way and also were severely incompetent when it came to the economy. But once again, once a country reaches a certain point in its development, you need to have liberalisation of the political sphere for the economy to grow also.


Maybe, but there's a cultural element here too. That is, Chinese culture itself is very hierarchical. Even within the family unit, you obey your elders even when you disagree with them. I see this in my wife constantly. The CCP has positioned itself as the great parents of all that should always be obeyed. I think this could be a key difference, and could result in people just going along with whatever tighter controls the CCP places on the populace (especially since there is economic prosperity as well).

JohnRawls wrote:Although things like rule of law, seperation of power, checks and balances etc exist as social constructs, it doesn't mean that their effects are just political. Those social constructs are positives for economic growth. If you don't have them then they are detractors to your economic growth. Yes, you can develop your economy to a degree without them but a certain point your negatives are going to outweight the positives like low salaries. The classical benefits of low developed economies slowly disappear over time so you won't be able to rely on them anymore at some point. Low salaries increase once you become middle income. Regulations appear because business DOES have negative consequences if not conducted ethicly and so on. You can't keep your low taxes or government subsidies because salaries rise and you now need to build infrastructure and pay government servants more. Corruption starts eating up more and more of the pie without change in the ruling names/people.


Ultimately, I agree with your points, China will collapse. I guess my point is, China is nowhere near that cliff yet. There is still lots of upside and development to be done. Lots more people to lift out of poverty, etc. etc. It's going to take a generation or two for shit to slowdown. Once that happens, people will not be willing to trade away freedom for economic prosperity anymore, because at the point,the CCP cannot use economic prosperity to buy people's freedoms. This will happen, just not any time soon. My question/worry is, how much damage might their imperialist ambitions do to the rest of the world. Will they be worse than the American empire? Who knows...
#15121043
Rancid wrote:Dude, I've seen the development first hand (recall I used to travel there). They aren't building those apartments for no one right? Anyway as for the crackdown on HK and others. They are doing that as insurance. Stomp them out now, when you can, so that when the train slows down, those people aren't a problem since they have been eliminated already. Smart move.



Perhaps, but I go back to my insurance counter point. That these crackdowns are an investment for the future, it's not about there being an issue right now that they are addressing.



Maybe, but there's a cultural element here too. That is, Chinese culture itself is very hierarchical. Even within the family unit, you obey your elders even when you disagree with them. I see this in my wife constantly. The CCP has positioned itself as the great parents of all that should always be obeyed. I think this could be a key difference, and could result in people just going along with whatever tighter controls the CCP places on the populace (especially since there is economic prosperity as well).



Ultimately, I agree with your points, China will collapse. I guess my point is, China is nowhere near that cliff yet. There is still lots of upside and development to be done. Lots more people to lift out of poverty, etc. etc. It's going to take a generation or two for shit to slowdown. Once that happens, people will not be willing to trade away freedom for economic prosperity anymore, because at the point,the CCP cannot use economic prosperity to buy people's freedoms. This will happen, just not any time soon. My question/worry is, how much damage might their imperialist ambitions do to the rest of the world. Will they be worse than the American empire? Who knows...


Regarding development: I am not disputing that China has come a long way. Ofcourse there was development since they liberalised and they have build great things and prospered from it. But starting from Xis rule and the economic crysis, the situation seems to be becoming worse and worse in this regard. Now, does that mean that economic collapse is going to happen straight away because of this? No, probably not. There might be a "correction" of sorts regarding their credit in god knows when. May be 6 months, may be years. But it will come. Ultimately this will not destroy the Chinese economy. For the Chinese economy to fully implode, Xi would need to unliberalise the economy itself which nobody will let him do. This is not Chavez we are talking about here. But once again, the chances of that are much, much, much higher without a democratic system.

Regarding cultural element: Hard to say honestly. I have never believed in the cultural element or the "just is how it is". Russia also considers itself special in this regard so that is why they need to have a "Tsar" or a "Tough ruler" of sorts in charge. My opinion on this is that this is just an excuse for the people and an argument of the government to abuse to do nothing.

Regarding Chinese imperialism: Nobodies an oracle so it is hard to say. By what we see in HK, Tibet and Xinyang, it looks bad. The reason why i think it is not applicable to Chinese imperialism is because the territories that might feel that effect are not really part of the Chinese homeland as the Han consider it. So i don't know. What i can say on this is that their imperealism will probably be less benevolent compared to the USs. US usually just needs bases, at time may be some resources but otherwise they do not interfere in to the social, political or economic structure of the country outside of the Americas. Once again, we have a problem here that the US treats the both Americas as its home turf and applies different standards to other places. I think that it is quite similar to what China would like to do. But then again, i can never be sure.
#15121195
AFAIK wrote:So Unthinking Majority mentioned Apple in his complaint about corporations having to obey China's gov't instead of overthrowing it and replacing it with a more compliant regime. Apple, a trillion dollar corporation, is so brutal and authoritarian in its business practices that dozens of its factory workers have been driven to suicide and FoxxCon had to install suicide nets at the factories where it manufactures Apple products. It must be terrible for the imperialists to discover a country that cannot be bullied or marginalised easily.


I only used Apple as an example, I have no knowledge of their business practices, and thus don't defend them in any way whatsoever. Apparently that makes me an imperialist?
#15121201
Rancid wrote:Keep in mind, it was the west that wanted to open up China. It was the west that entered into all these agreements with China. Ultimately, we did it to ourselves.

Exactly. We did it for cheap labour and profits. And politicians didn't stop it because powerful corporations are in their pockets. Everyone saw this from a mile away and did nothing.

Thank you for the rest of your post, it was enlightening!
#15121411
Unthinking Majority wrote:This is simply a further consolidation of the power of the literal fascism of the CCP. If you're a western business with a factory in China, your IP and trade secrets are probably being stolen by the state or domestic businesses if it has any value. If ie: Apple is manufacturing iPhones in China, you can bet the place is bugged and/or filled with "workers" working for the CCP etc.

1 in 5 corporations report IP theft from China in past year, 1 in 3 report it in the last decade:

https://fortune.com/2019/03/01/china-ip-theft/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... est-threat

It was a mistake to establish diplomatic ties with these commies. We are allowing them to leach off our consumerist economy and giving them the tools to undermine us.
#15121499
Igor Antunov wrote:800 million lifted out of poverty in 40 years.


The neolibs try to justify their piracy with this same bullshit but considering the state of technology and how much of the natural wealth of the world technology has unlocked, 800 million in 40 years is just abysmal. The number we really should be looking at is the amount of relative poverty that's been artificially induced by these extractive kleptocracies and when you do look at that number you find that it's more outrageous than impressive.
#15121848
Random American wrote:It was a mistake to establish diplomatic ties with these commies. We are allowing them to leach off our consumerist economy and giving them the tools to undermine us.


Ironic coming from a random American, considering it is you who've been leeching off their labor market and have been importing most tools from them for the past 20 years and now your companies are starting to leech off THEIR massive consumer market also.
#15121850
Igor Antunov wrote:It's called Confucianism, and it has been imposed since the 80's. Why do you speculate on the obvious, just to make it seem more sinister than it is?

Indeed, and before that it was Legalism. Chairman Mao regarded Confucianism as being both soppy and reactionary, and preferred the moral code adopted by the First Emperor, whose career Mao consciously tried to emulate.
#15121852
Igor Antunov wrote:It's called Confucianism, and it has been imposed since the 80's. Why do you speculate on the obvious, just to make it seem more sinister than it is?


If you think China has been doing Confucianism since the 1980s, you have an impossibly broad definition of what Confucianism is, so braod that it basically means "China is doing Chinese cultural things since the 1980s!".... or you just don't know what Confucianism is.

Albeit, I have never studied Confucianism outside of a formal classroom setting, and I am only familiar with the ways that Confucianism manifest itself in Korean culture...

I guess I could be missing something.

But I do recollect asking a mainland Chinese political philosophy professor about this in 2016 or so because I had seen some reports of Party Officials appearing at Confucianist sorts of events, and he said that they have largely decided to ride this resurgence of Confucianism because it could be beneficial to their image and perhaps also to ultimately tame it.

But maybe that's irrelevant.

Edit: I have to stand somewhat corrected on this:

Confucianism has made comeback as the Communist Party looks for ways to justify its authoritarianism and forge a common Chinese identity. In the 1990s, Confucianism was promoted to provide moral teachings and counteract the decadence and materialism brought about by the Deng reforms. In the early 2000s, a number of schools opened up to teach Confucian values to youngsters and an institute was set up at Renmin University devoted to the study of Confucius and Confucian thought.

...
Kate Merkel-Hess and Jeffrey Wasserstrom wrote in Time, “Current efforts to treat Confucius as Chinese culture personified---whether via state-funded Confucius Institutes or the not-quite-official Confucius Peace Prize just ginned up to compete with the Nobel---also run into trouble when we get to texts. Yes, generations of Chinese have valued the great sage's Analects. But they have also loved Journey to the West, a popular novel in which the central figure, the Monkey King, is a rebellious trickster. Even Liu's essays that present "Chinese culture" as an obstacle to progress are hardly "un-Chinese." Lu Xun, an iconoclastic figure whose stories were once praised by Mao Zedong and still show up in textbooks, made a similar argument in the 1920s.
...
Once ridiculed by Mao, Confucianism is making a comeback with state support. Confucian temples and schools have not only been allowed to open up and carry on a wide range of activities they sometimes receive government money and support to do so. Kong Xianglin, deputy director of the state-financed Confucius Research Center in Qufu and 75th-generation descendant of Confucianism told the Washington Post, “If Confucius were alive today he would probably join the Communist Party." [Source: Andrew Higgins, Washington Post, May 18 2010]
[lol]


Link

Nonetheless, I think this is somewhat ridiculous.Because, ultimately, the ChiComs do not appear to have any coherent virtues which they consistently uphold, and I agree with the professor quoted in the above link:

Confucianists are considerate of others, and the Confucian Way consists of these two words: honesty and consideration. Honesty is simply doing one's best, while consideration means treating others with a considerate attitude; as Confucius said, “Do not do unto others what you would not have them do to you." This is the basic teaching of Confucianism. If a political party or a government sends to jail anyone who dares to utter even a minor criticism of their policies, can they be Confucianists? That's why I think it is very simple to identify real Confucianists. We definitely do not want to be deceived by terminology, and become the slaves to linguistic labels." ===
#15121853
Igor Antunov wrote:Still have it. Covid slowed everything right down to a stop in 2020. Extended Family have started building homes and hotels on it. Some without permission, but that's ok, they're family. I am yet to join in on the fun. There's an ancient Roman cemetery on it we discovered last year. I've found coins dating from the 2nd century AD there.

We have chunks of land all over the Balkans on both sides of the family. Old great great whatever the fuck grand daddy was an adopted knight turned noble in the austro-hungarian regime and managed to gobble up a bunch of real estate. But none of this land has suffered as much damage and abuse over the past 200 years as the chunk shown below.

Some company has been extracting prime marble and other material for cement from the hills for years. They've stolen tens of millions of dollars. We're organizing a team of lawyers to annihilate them and everything they hold dear. The evidence is smeared all over our land, they've turned it into an open cut disaster. Everything in red is ours, they will pay for their insolence.

Image

That's cool. My relatives were also royals in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. But the Nazis seized their property and exterminated the ones that didn't get out.
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