What is Fascism - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

What is Fascism?

Anti-Socialist Bulwork to protect capitalism
22
30%
Institutional totalitarian
24
33%
Fanaticism
2
3%
Mercantilism
No votes
0%
Socialism
7
10%
Other (please elaborate)
18
25%
User avatar
By KurtFF8
#15123081
Julian658 wrote:It looked more than 7% POD. Sadly that massive destruction of property and violence causes harm to the massage of anti racism.

Why does BLM has so much emphasis on other issues unrelated to racism? That also detracts from the message.


This is what this talking point boils down to: "well it looks like chaos everywhere!" No real substance of course, which isn't surprising.
By skinster
#15123088
Julian is the type of guy who understands the world through the internet and likely subscribes to media that shows only violence at protests, which there is little of.

He should step into the real world and attend a protest or two. I've been to a bunch in NYC, D.C., and London and they've nearly always been peaceful, with violence only ever coming from cops if at all.

I've no doubt there's a lot of agent provocateurs in this year's protests too, to sell the idea to people like Julian that the protests = "RAAAAAR BLM AND ANTIFA VIOLENCE". They never speak about the cause(s) of the protests, it's like these movements just appear all by themselves. :roll:
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123097
KurtFF8 wrote:This is what this talking point boils down to: "well it looks like chaos everywhere!" No real substance of course, which isn't surprising.


Police brutality is real. That is an issue worth fighting for.
The death of George Floyd was a classic example of police brutality. It is likely he died of a drug overdose, but the cop send him over the edge.

The death of Breonna Taylor is a tragedy, but a totally different issue than the George Floyd killing by the cops.

Police reform is needed. We should get rid of the unions that protect the cops. We should fire all chiefs of police in the cities where there is police abuse. Many of the police chiefs are black, but they obviously have blood in their hands. They failed to provide training knowing quite well this is a problem. I know cops in Baltimore----------A city wth a black chief of police, mayor, and city council and they have NOT provided training to the cops. They fear the unions.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123099
skinster wrote:Julian is the type of guy who understands the world through the internet and likely subscribes to media that shows only violence at protests, which there is little of.

He should step into the real world and attend a protest or two. I've been to a bunch in NYC, D.C., and London and they've nearly always been peaceful, with violence only ever coming from cops if at all.

I've no doubt there's a lot of agent provocateurs in this year's protests too, to sell the idea to people like Julian that the protests = "RAAAAAR BLM AND ANTIFA VIOLENCE". They never speak about the cause(s) of the protests, it's like these movements just appear all by themselves. :roll:


I already accepted that those that are violent are likely in a minority, however, they are highly visible. We could also say the same about racist people. Most USA citizens are not racist. The overwhelming majority of people want to end the tribalism, the oppression, racism, and the inequality of opportunity.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123101
Pants-of-dog wrote:I see that @Julian658 (and perhaps other conservatives) would rather talk about how BLM is not marketing itself properly to them, instead of discussing how Trump enables fascist tendencies in the US electorate.

Trump is a populist POD. However, he is not a fascist. IN fact, Trump has no ideology! You are blinded by ideology!
User avatar
By KurtFF8
#15123104
Julian658 wrote:Police brutality is real. That is an issue worth fighting for.
The death of George Floyd was a classic example of police brutality. It is likely he died of a drug overdose, but the cop send him over the edge.

The death of Breonna Taylor is a tragedy, but a totally different issue than the George Floyd killing by the cops.

Police reform is needed. We should get rid of the unions that protect the cops. We should fire all chiefs of police in the cities where there is police abuse. Many of the police chiefs are black, but they obviously have blood in their hands. They failed to provide training knowing quite well this is a problem. I know cops in Baltimore----------A city wth a black chief of police, mayor, and city council and they have NOT provided training to the cops. They fear the unions.


You say all this yet you promote the false pro police narrative of wise spread rioting and looting that isn't based in reality. All that narrative does is to justify even more police violence.

So either you don't understand the connection between what you're promoting and police violence, or you don't actually care about police brutality at all.
By skinster
#15123107
Julian658 wrote:I already accepted that those that are violent are likely in a minority, however, they are highly visible.


And as I said, that's most likely because you subscribe to the type of media that demonises the protesters and regurgitate it here. It's accepted by you the violence is in the minority so stop harping on about that and focus harder on why the protests are happening and what could cause them to stop.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123114
KurtFF8 wrote:You say all this yet you promote the false pro police narrative of wise spread rioting and looting that isn't based in reality. All that narrative does is to justify even more police violence.

So either you don't understand the connection between what you're promoting and police violence, or you don't actually care about police brutality at all.

How many times do I have to say police brutality is a problem?
The solutions are obvious: training, training, training.
Screen applicants.
Get rid of unions.
Fire the police hierarchy and mayors of cities where there is brutality.

Do you know how cops are trained? They are trained to come back to their wives and kids alive every night. The goal of the training is not to take chances with criminals. They are trained to empty their pistols with minimal provocation.

In Minneapolis we had what looks like racism, but we cannot forget that white cops also killed a white man in exactly the same way George Floyd died. That is never mentioned by the media as they want to promote racism to increase ratings.
#15123126
Trump is a very divisive leader and POTUS. He pours fuel on the fire, he has made race relations worse. But overall he is more a symptom of the problem than the cause. He was nominated as the GOP candidate and then elected because "MAGA". Demographics are changing in America and all over the West, the economics have been neoliberalized and are also politically corrupt, this has led to a rise in rightwing and leftwing populism. Trump and Sanders and BLM are a symptom of a problem, not the cause.

Race relations started to hit the crapper during the Obama admin. The Ferguson protests and BLM happened in 2014, pre-Trump. I'm not blaming Obama, I'm saying demographics are shifting, as is ideology, as is communication technology (twitter, smartphones etc) and politics have become more divisive because of identity politics on both right and left as everyone is fighting for their space.

If white people across the US, Europe/the West are quickly becoming a minority in the countries they have founded (often as the indigenous peoples of those lands, like in Europe) for hundreds and often many thousands of years, you are going to get pushback by some of them who don't like it and don't wish to accept it. If racial minorities are going to rise in population in these same countries they aren't going to stay silent while racists crap on them and police abuse them.

Some people criticize nationalism, but at the same time the international system is built upon the concept of the "nation-state". Now we're trying to separate "the nation" from "the state". This is not an easy thing, if possible at all. In any country, all identity groups want and deserve a voice and political power over their own destiny. Whites, blacks, indigenous, Muslim, Christians, Jews etc. If one group is too powerful they will often keep the smaller ones down. This has resulted in most of the civil wars throughout history. We have whites controlling things, and most of the other minority groups fighting for their space while growing in number and power by the day. Multiculturalism can be good, but it also causes conflict, this is the result. Things might get a bit better or worse depending on who the POTUS is, but they can't make these problems go away.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123128
Unthinking Majority wrote:Trump is a very divisive leader and POTUS. He pours fuel on the fire, he has made race relations worse. But overall he is more a symptom of the problem than the cause. He was nominated as the GOP candidate and then elected because "MAGA". Demographics are changing in America and all over the West, the economics have been neoliberalized and are also politically corrupt, this has led to a rise in rightwing and leftwing populism. Trump and Sanders and BLM are a symptom of a problem, not the cause.

Race relations started to hit the crapper during the Obama admin. The Ferguson protests and BLM happened in 2014, pre-Trump. I'm not blaming Obama, I'm saying demographics are shifting, as is ideology, as is communication technology (twitter, smartphones etc) and politics have become more divisive because of identity politics on both right and left as everyone is fighting for their space.

If white people across the US, Europe/the West are quickly becoming a minority in the countries they have founded (often as the indigenous peoples of those lands, like in Europe) for hundreds and often many thousands of years, you are going to get pushback by some of them who don't like it and don't wish to accept it. If racial minorities are going to rise in population in these same countries they aren't going to stay silent while racists crap on them and police abuse them.

Some people criticize nationalism, but at the same time the international system is built upon the concept of the "nation-state". Now we're trying to separate "the nation" from "the state". This is not an easy thing, if possible at all. In any country, all identity groups want and deserve a voice and political power over their own destiny. Whites, blacks, indigenous, Muslim, Christians, Jews etc. If one group is too powerful they will often keep the smaller ones down. This has resulted in most of the civil wars throughout history. We have whites controlling things, and most of the other minority groups fighting for their space while growing in number and power by the day. Multiculturalism can be good, but it also causes conflict, this is the result. Things might get a bit better or worse depending on who the POTUS is, but they can't make these problems go away.


When you have different racial and cultural groups you can expect problems. Luckily there is a simple solution. The system creates a group based on nationality and a single unifying culture. For example this works like a charm in sports because a team is formed and the differences among team members is not that important as long as they have a unifying theme and goal.

The problem with the left is that they promote the differences between the groups rather than the similarities. The left wants a multicultural system with no unifying theme (nationalism).
Last edited by Julian658 on 27 Sep 2020 14:22, edited 1 time in total.
By Rich
#15123180
The funny thing is to a significant extent we in Britain created Nazism and Fascism, and then we in Britain destroyed them.

We helped create, foster and nurture radical assertive German nationalism as a counter to Napoleon. By 1914 of course it was German nationalism that was the problem not French. So we found an Italian Socialist called Bennito Mussolini, put him on the pay role of the forerunner of MI6 and encouraged him to create a new fascist party that would appeal both to factory workers and nationalists. His socialism didn't bother the British elite. It wouldn't be British tax payers that would be coughing up for his expensive promised social programmes.

British foreign policy essentially remained unchanged from the Tudors to World War II. Our policy was to ferment division, conflict, hatred and warfare across Europe, preferably directed against who ever was the strongest power in Europe at the time. Its quite simple really. Its not rocket science. We fostered German nationalism, to counter French Nationalism. We encouraged Greek nationalism to counter the Ottoman Empire but we encouraged Prussian and Ottoman patriotism to counter Russia. We fostered Italian nationalism to counter German and Austrian nationalism. We encouraged Japanese nationalism to counter US nationalism and end Germany's penetration of the Eastern hemisphere.

It got a bit tricky in the 1930s though because we couldn't quite make up our minds when Mussolini invaded Ethiopia, if Italian nationalism was now the problem, or if we still needed Italian nationalism to counter a German resurgence. We also had a problem, because by the late 1920s, I don't know quite how to put it. As a nation we could no longer get it up for war. We were in dire need of some national Viagra. Somehow we had degenerated from a nation of pirates into a nation of shop keepers. We started to see the Sudeten question as a problem not an opportunity. It was as if as a nation we had lost the will to keep the plates spinning. The plates of division, wrath and conflict on the continent, on which our prosperity, security and dominance as a nation had so long been founded.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123204
skinster wrote:And as I said, that's most likely because you subscribe to the type of media that demonises the protesters and regurgitate it here. It's accepted by you the violence is in the minority so stop harping on about that and focus harder on why the protests are happening and what could cause them to stop.


Social media and news media have the power to amplify minor events to huge proportions. They do the same thing with racism. Racism today is a billion times less than in the 1960s and yet if you poll some black people they think it is at an all time high. They forget that a nation where blacks are only 13% of the population elected Obama twice.
By late
#15123209
Julian658 wrote:
Racism today is a billion times less than in the 1960s and yet if you poll some black people they think it is at an all time high. They forget that a nation where blacks are only 13% of the population elected Obama twice.



We've reduced the cause, but much less so with the damage done by that cause...
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123210
late wrote:We've reduced the cause, but much less so with the damage done by that cause...


Electing black politicians to office does not work.
We need a new paradigm. The 1965 war on poverty was a disaster that created a permanent nihilistic underclass that became perennial Democrat voters. Every time I see a successful minority in America I see kids that came from an intact home. This applies to all ethnic groups. The solution is right in front of our eyes.
By late
#15123226
Julian658 wrote:
Electing black politicians to office does not work.
We need a new paradigm. The 1965 war on poverty was a disaster that created a permanent nihilistic underclass that became perennial Democrat voters. Every time I see a successful minority in America I see kids that came from an intact home. This applies to all ethnic groups. The solution is right in front of our eyes.



If you ever want to get past that BS, let me know.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123229
late wrote:If you ever want to get past that BS, let me know.

I acknowledge that it seems to make no sense.

BTW, at one time in the not so distant past the Irish had more elected officials than the Jews, Germans, Italians, English, etc and yet they were less economically successful and were at the bottom.

Today the Indians, Asians, and even Nigerians have hardly no one in elected office and yet they thrive in America. The reason is a good family! That the mayor of the city is not Asian or of Indian descent is meaningless to this people.
By late
#15123232
Julian658 wrote:
I acknowledge that it seems to make no sense.

BTW, at one time in the not so distant past the Irish had more elected officials than the Jews, Germans, Italians, English, etc and yet they were less economically successful and were at the bottom.

Today the Indians, Asians, and even Nigerians have hardly no one in elected office and yet they thrive in America. The reason is a good family! That the mayor of the city is not Asian or of Indian descent is meaningless to this people.



You don't understand.

Progressives favor policies that help families directly and indirectly.

They are necessary, but not sufficient.

There also isn't a one size fits all answer. One city in the South has all it's public transportation go around the poor Black area. Except for a single bus line... Until they can get out, they can't get a job.
#15123237
Fascist governments also purge the disloyal.

Much like the Trump administration fired everyone they could who testified against Trump during the impeachment proceedings.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123239
late wrote:You don't understand.

Progressives favor policies that help families directly and indirectly.

They are necessary, but not sufficient.

There also isn't a one size fits all answer. One city in the South has all it's public transportation go around the poor Black area. Except for a single bus line... Until they can get out, they can't get a job.


I do not disagree, there are a lot of specifics that need attention. However, from a more global perspective putting a subway station and multiple bust stops in a neighborhood will not uplift the people to the same degree as having a solid family background.

The question is: How does anyone foster a solid family? I suspect, this is all cultural. In the 1950s well over 90% of people were married (all groups). Today marriage is still strong in the mid to upper and upper classes (near 90%) whereas it has disappeared among the low and mid class.

Mid to upper and upper class kids with two parents will have enormous advantages over the low and middle class people with just one parent at home. People on the left go nuts when this is mentioned as they think ALL FAMILIES ARE EQUAL. The dad in the family could be the dog or the cat and they are fine with that. :lol: :lol: This thought has damaged Americans of all racial groups.

Lastly there are many cities that have been under near a 100% black Democrat government for decades with poor results for the poor. This has been the norm way before Trump was elected and the norm when Obama was president. Black elected officials only benefit other elite blacks who get jobs or contracts, but do nothing for the poor (of all colors).
By wat0n
#15123240
Pants-of-dog wrote:Fascist governments also purge the disloyal.

Much like the Trump administration fired everyone they could who testified against Trump during the impeachment proceedings.


So according to you, Fidel Castro was a fascist? After all, he purged out of all the disloyal, just like all the other communist regimes did.

:)
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