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By Sivad
#15123087
Beren wrote:Do you actually believe this? Obama just should have stepped up against him and he'd have been instantly crushed.


Mr. Biden wrote in his book that Mr. Obama talked him out of running in 2016 in order to clear a path for Hillary Clinton. Mr. Biden wrote that Mr. Obama “played up the appeal of leaving politics and gave little encouragement about a possible bid.”

Again, according to The New York Times, Mr. Obama “offered every (2020 Democrat) candidate his counsel” and in December it leaked that the former president was secretly promoting then-candidate Sen. Elizabeth Warren to possible donors.

Last December, Mr. Obama told a gathering in Singapore there would be “significant improvement across the board” if more countries had female leaders and that “old men” should get “out of the way.” It was a comment many took to be a slap at his much older (and male) vice president.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op ... story.html
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By Beren
#15123089
Then again, @Sivad, why did he not step up against him (effectively)? It was only up to him. His actions, taken or not, should weigh more than his words did or do. All this Biden-succeeded-against-Obama story smells like bullshit to me. He couldn't handle Warren so easily, could he? ;)
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By annatar1914
#15123091
All of this could be a means of clearing the decks and the deadwood for an Obama run in 2024, possibly? I mean, if Grover Cleveland could do it, being the 22nd and the 24th President of the United States, could Obama get around a two-term restriction by running again in 2024? Why not?

Edit; saw this gentleman's answer on Quora;

Brad Chapman
, Amateur studier of the US Constitution.
Updated September 22, 2017 · Author has 566 answers and 1.3M answer views

I’m going to use Obama as the example because that’s what the question specifically asks, but this applies to any two term president.

While I would like to say no, he can’t be president again because the 22nd Amendment limits him to only being able to serve two full terms, the fact of the matter is that the wording of the Amendment makes it so that no one honestly knows if he could become president again.

22nd Amendment

Section 1.

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

First we note that he has served two full terms. So according to the Amendment, he cannot be ELECTED president again. But, the question becomes, could he become VP and succeed to another term? Well…

Amendment 12 (relevant part)

But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

Herein lies the problem. The 22nd Amendment makes Obama ineligible to be ELECTED president, according to the strict wording of the Amendment. But while it is intended to make him ineligible to become president again, its bad wording means that it could be a loophole if any president wanted to attempt a third term that way, and could get someone to run for president that would step aside after (if not before) the inauguration. And while it would be even more complicated, there is also the possibility of a former two term president becoming Speaker of the House, President Pro Tem of the Senate, or a cabinet member of another president and succeed that way if the circumstances arose.

So like I said… no one honestly knows if the bad wording would work as a loophole and allow someone barred from being elected president to become one through succession. It would require the situation to come up (i.e., a two term president trying to run for VP or ending up in a situation where he’d be in another office and up to succeed), someone to bring the issue to SCOTUS, and then SCOTUS ruling on the issue. If it ever happened, they could rule on a strict wording basis, meaning that they’d decide that since he wasn’t elected to a third term, he could succeed into one (and Congress, depending on the political atmosphere of course, would be highly likely to try to close that loophole). Or they could rule on the intent of the Amendment, which is to limit the number of terms a president can serve, and bar a person ineligible from being elected again from succeeding. And while I would like to say that any court makeup at any given time would rule the same way regardless of political leanings of the members and person in question, I no longer trust that to be the case. Frankly, if he tried to pull that loophole now, he’d fail in front of the right leaning court. Whereas a former Republican two term president may succeed. And vice versa when the court is left leaning.

Either way, unless and until the situation comes up and the court makes a ruling/sets a precedent, no one knows whether the wording of the 22nd Amendment would allow a succession loophole or not, and can’t even guess what SCOTUS would decide unless someone ever tries.

EDIT TO ADD: The succession law (setting the order of who becomes or acts as President if the both the offices of President and VP become vacant) has the same requirements as running for VP… to succeed to the presidency, one has to be eligible to the office. As the rest of the answer points out, since none of us can answer for certain whether being ineligible to be elected president also makes one ineligible to the office of President, then we don’t know if he could succeed from an office below VP. But if he were eligible to succeed at all, then he would be eligible to be VP, putting him closer to the office of President.
Last edited by annatar1914 on 26 Sep 2020 21:58, edited 1 time in total.
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By Beren
#15123092
annatar1914 wrote:All of this could be a means of clearing the decks and the deadwood for an Obama run in 2024, possibly? I mean, if Grover Cleveland could do it, being the 22nd and the 24th President of the United States, could Obama get around a two-term restriction by running again in 2024? Why not?

He doesn't have to run again, which he also couldn't do anyway, if he finds people running for him. :lol:
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By annatar1914
#15123094
Beren wrote:He doesn't have to run again, which he also couldn't do anyway, if he finds people running for him. :lol:


It's the highest office in the land. He may want to continue at it again at some point.
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By Beren
#15123095
annatar1914 wrote:It's the highest office in the land. He may want to continue at it again at some point.

Well, his wife doesn't want him to be president anyway, and her word seems to count. :)

However, on a serious note, Obama just can't run again, but Biden can and he'd be perfect for Obama in the Oval Office.
By Finfinder
#15123105
Why are people assuming that even if Obama could run for president again he would win. That is just a giant tell, that the Democrats have zero leadership now and into the near future.

Obama’s reason for meddling now is so he can physically erase the truth and the facts that he was the most corrupt and least accomplished president in our country’s history .
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By annatar1914
#15123108
Finfinder wrote:Why are people assuming that even if Obama could run for president again he would win. That is just a giant tell, that the Democrats have zero leadership now and into the near future.

Obama’s reason for meddling now is so he can physically erase the truth and the facts that he was the most corrupt and least accomplished president in our country’s history .


Let's assume you're correct, and right for the wrong reasons perhaps. The Democrats have an option of becoming Socialists but cannot, and those that are on that fringe or close to it are saddled with extreme identity politics. Therefore, the only thing they can do to survive in the future is to adopt the Nationalist and Populist beliefs of the Trump's followers, and get behind a reasonably sane and younger Democrat like Tulsi Gabbard.
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By Beren
#15123110
Finfinder wrote:Why are people assuming that even if Obama could run for president again he would win.

Indeed, why is that? :)
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By Beren
#15123113
Finfinder wrote:Read the second paragraph I wrote.
You tell me.

He may be engraved in people's minds as a confident winner?
By Finfinder
#15123116
Beren wrote:He may be engraved in people's minds as a confident winner?


Or a corrupt cheater known for spying on his political rivals and trying to rig an election. I doubt he would have the courage to attempt to defend himself. Not even getting into his record high unemployment and low GDP numbers.
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By Beren
#15123118
Finfinder wrote:Or a corrupt cheater known for spying on his political rivals and trying to rig an election. I doubt he would have the courage to attempt to defend himself. Not even getting into his record high unemployment and low GDP numbers.

Do you really believe that's how people view or remember him? I mean most people.
By Finfinder
#15123121
People that believe in facts? yes ....you do know that many people who voted for Obama voted for Trump? I don’t have the poll numbers I’m assuming it’s close to 50% of people in the country believed that Obama spied on the Trump campaign.

Unlike Twitter, Pofo and the liberal media, most people do like facts.
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By jimjam
#15123158
blackjack21 wrote:That's not how banks work. Organizations Trump has an interest in have a contract with DeutscheBank secured by real property. If a Russian buys the collateralized debt obligation related to your home mortgage, that doesn't mean that you are somehow legally tied to Russians.


Yeah? So? Go hang out at the Rixos in Dubai and tell me what you see. Russians! Russians! Everywhere! Your Russophobia is noted. What makes you think selling something to a Russian makes you beholden to a Russian, compared to for example a Russian making a massive financial donation to your charitable foundation?


If they were illegal aliens from Mexico, would that make you feel better?


Trump picked it up under market value. Have you noticed Trump doing something untoward with the Russian fertilizer industry? It would be interesting to see if that's the case, because Mueller didn't seem to bother with this stuff.


Is the United Arab Emirates in Russia's pocket? How about the UK? How about Cyprus? Basically, Russians get their money the hell out of Russia so it's not stolen by the government or oligarchs. It's why Russia is a backwater country, and its only geostrategic threats involve trying to retake Ukraine or securing uranium interests.


@jimjam was one of those types who was in Moscow during the height of the Soviet Union--not unlike Bill Clinton.

I'm hoping you are simply jerking us off but ……. if you are really this naïve about how the real world operates ….. :eek: I was born & raised in NYC along with Fat Donald. Some of my high school classmates were sons of Mafia. I was educated in the operations of the underground economy. I'm guessing that you had an insulated growing up in a special world of privilege.

Hey, I haven't seen your BFF Hindsite lately …… Not unlike yourself I find him to be an interesting specimen. I hope he's ok.

"those types " ..... and what may those types be? I guess now I'm a Commie :lol:
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By annatar1914
#15123162
jimjam wrote:I'm hoping you are simply jerking us off but ……. if you are really this naïve about how the real world operates ….. :eek: I was born & raised in NYC along with Fat Donald. Some of my high school classmates were sons of Mafia. I was educated in the operations of the underground economy. I'm guessing that you had an insulated growing up in a special world of privilege.

Hey, I haven't seen your BFF Hindsite lately …… Not unlike yourself I find him to be an interesting specimen. I hope he's ok.

"those types " ..... and what may those types be? I guess now I'm a Commie :lol:


And none of this has anything to do with @blackjack21 and his actual comments and questions re; your apparent Russophobia, does it?

Since I know the real world as well, I'd say if I didn't know you any better, that you appeared to be dodging trying to muster up a valid rational response.

I mean, we're talking business here, and apparently Russians, Russian Jews, etc... Can't do business in New York or elsewhere, right?
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By blackjack21
#15123165
jimjam wrote:I'm hoping you are simply jerking us off but ……. if you are really this naïve about how the real world operates ….. :eek: I was born & raised in NYC along with Fat Donald. Some of my high school classmates were sons of Mafia. I was educated in the operations of the underground economy. I'm guessing that you had an insulated growing up in a special world of privilege.

I'm literally saying fractional reserve banking doesn't work that way. It's not that Donald needs $400M, so the Russians deposit $400M and Deutsche Bank relends the money to Donald. To lend Donald $400M, Deutsche Bank only needs $40M in deposits, and it doesn't matter where it comes from. If Donald defaults, it's the bank that is on the hook, not the depositors. When you deposit money in your checking account, do you really think you can "wink wink, nudge nudge, 'psst! hey! Lend my money to that guy!' and have them do it? In a loan of any amount of money, there is no 1:1 cardinality of dollar-to-dollar between a depositor and a borrower. This isn't the underground economy. It's the overground economy. It's the real estate economy.
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By ingliz
#15123167
blackjack21 wrote:Deutsche Bank

Anti-money-laundering specialists at Deutsche Bank recommended in 2016 and 2017 that multiple transactions involving legal entities controlled by Donald J. Trump and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, be reported to a federal financial-crimes watchdog.


:lol:
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By jimjam
#15123248
annatar1914 wrote:you appeared to be dodging trying to muster up a valid rational response.


I point out that the guy is naïve and full of shit and that's "dodging"? :lol: It's bad enough that I even waste my time talking to a sucker who has been conned let alone waste even more time trying to convince him that the cow really didn't jump over the moon because Fat Donald said so. You want to see "dodging"? Study the artful dodger BJ21.

Here's a "dodge" for you: It's a beautiful early Fall day up here on the Maine coast and I'm going for a 2 mile jog next to the bay :) .

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