Paying My Respects to Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg - Page 16 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15123654
Rich wrote:Doesn't @Drlee have VHA?

If he works for the VA he is a federal government employee. And he is not as rich as he claims to be. Therefore, saying that Trump saved him a fortune in taxes is not true.
Last edited by Julian658 on 29 Sep 2020 16:13, edited 1 time in total.
#15123661
And for another example of how politicized court nominations have become:

Rhodes College grads rip alumna Amy Coney Barrett for 'anti-choice,' 'hate group' ties

    More than 1,500 graduates of U.S. District Court Judge Amy Coney Barrett’s alma mater posted a letter Monday opposing her Supreme Court nomination, citing her “anti-choice” and “hate group” associations.

    The 1,514 alumni on the letter appearing on the Facebook page “Rhodes College Alumni Against Amy Coney Barrett’s Nomination” also said they opposed the Memphis college’s efforts to embrace Judge Barrett as a distinguished alumna.

    “Many of us also were contemporaries of, friends of, and even sorority sisters of Amy Coney Barrett, who is now President Trump’s nominee to fill the Supreme Court seat of the very recently departed Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg,” said the letter to Marjorie Hass, president of the small liberal arts college in Memphis, Tennessee.

    “However, despite the respect that many of us hold for her intellect, and even the friendship that many of us held or continue to hold with her, we are firmly and passionately opposed to her nomination,” the letter continued.

    Judge Barrett, a conservative jurist who says she adheres to the judicial philosophy of the late Justice Antonin Scalia, was nominated Saturday to fill the vacancy left by the Sept. 18 death of Justice Ginsburg, a liberal jurist who spent 27 years on the high court.

    The letter cited Judge Barrett’s membership in “the anti-choice group University Faculty for Life” at Notre Dame Law School, and “her disapproval of the ACA [Affordable Care Act], a statute that helps to ensure access to healthcare for millions of vulnerable people who may not otherwise have access.”

    In addition, the alumni raised concerns about her speeches before the conservative Alliance Defending Freedom, describing it as a “hate group,” based on the leftist Southern Poverty Law Center’s “hate map.”

    The center has long been accused by conservatives of seeking to score political points by lumping mainstream right-of-center organizations with racist cabals like the Ku Klux Klan.

    In a Sept. 22 statement, Ms. Hass said that it was “remarkable that a Rhodes graduate should appear at the top of a list of potential Supreme Court nominees, but it is in keeping with a long history of Rhodes connections to the highest court in the land.”

    “Judge Coney Barrett participates in this tradition of academic excellence,” said Ms. Hass. “As a member of the Rhodes College Class of 1994, she graduated magna cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa with a Bachelor of Arts in English. While at Rhodes, she was elected to the Honor Council and to the Student Hall of Fame. She has gone on to a career of professional distinction and achievement.”

    It turns out Judge Barrett would not be the first Rhodes graduate to sit on the court — that was Justice Abe Fortas, class of 1930 — but in their letter, the alumni urged the administration to avoid lauding her.

    “[A]s proud Rhodes alumni, we implore you to make very clear that: (1) Rhodes opposes intolerance, discrimination, and bigotry of all kinds; and (2) that Rhodes stands with its LGBTQ, female, minority, and other marginalized students and graduates who fear that their rights may be endangered by the lifetime appointment of Amy Coney Barrett to the highest court in the land,” said the letter.

    Another Rhodes alumnus, Republican strategist Brad Todd, disagreed, tweeting that “My alma mater left out a few things in its release. #ACB was a manga cum laude graduate & has put @RhodesCollege on a plane only Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, and Cornell have achieved. Rhodes College alumni everywhere should be proud of Amy Coney Barrett. I know I am.”

    Senate Judiciary Committee chair Lindsey Graham said Saturday that hearings on Judge Barrett’s nomination will begin Oct. 12 and head to the Senate floor by Oct. 26, even as Democrats accuse the Republican majority of rushing the confirmation vote.
#15123671
Drlee wrote:
And I have government health insurance so if Obamacare goes away, it will have no effect on me or my immediate family for that matter.


And in his usual imbicile way @Julian658 who appears to have a learning difficulty said:

You keep digging a hole! That is what happens when you create a fictitious character that pretends to be a Republican.


Get an adult to read this to you:

I am a retired soldier. That is not a government employee. I am also over 65 which entitles me to Medicare. These two are combined to form a thing called Tricare For Life. It is virtually free, single payer, government provided health care. Oh by the way, Hindsite has it also.

Now you can stop running your mouth long enough to apologize.

If he works for the VA he is a federal government employee. And he is not as rich as he claims to be. Therefore, saying that Trump saved him a fortune is not true.


And again you are fucking wrong. As I said, I do not work for the government. The VA is a government agency. I do not work there. As everyone here knows, except it would appear, you, I own a business. Two actually. One, is a consulting business which I have discussed here and the other is not. And I have not and am not going to discuss it here at all. It is unrelated to anything we might discuss here and would identify me to my customers. If you understand the Trump tax cuts you will understand how they affect certain business owners. And it is a lot.

You really need to get someone to help you with your personal attacks. You end up looking like an idiot every time.
#15124186
Drlee wrote:And in his usual imbicile way @Julian658 who appears to have a learning difficulty said:



Get an adult to read this to you:

I am a retired soldier. That is not a government employee. I am also over 65 which entitles me to Medicare. These two are combined to form a thing called Tricare For Life. It is virtually free, single payer, government provided health care. Oh by the way, Hindsite has it also.

Now you can stop running your mouth long enough to apologize.



And again you are fucking wrong. As I said, I do not work for the government. The VA is a government agency. I do not work there. As everyone here knows, except it would appear, you, I own a business. Two actually. One, is a consulting business which I have discussed here and the other is not. And I have not and am not going to discuss it here at all. It is unrelated to anything we might discuss here and would identify me to my customers. If you understand the Trump tax cuts you will understand how they affect certain business owners. And it is a lot.

You really need to get someone to help you with your personal attacks. You end up looking like an idiot every time.


You are worst than Biden and Trump combined.
#15124682
Back to the actual subject of the thread, here’s David French’s take on Barrett, the People of Praise, and the Left’s inability to “get” religion:

Should Americans Worry About Amy Coney Barrett and 'People of Praise'?

Let me begin by laying my cards on the table. I’ve long been an admirer of Amy Coney Barrett, both as a person and a jurist. I believe Donald Trump made a mistake when he nominated Brett Kavanaugh instead of Judge Barrett in 2018, and I believe he made the correct pick yesterday. If he wins re-election in November, she should be promptly and quickly confirmed. I persist, however, in my belief that a rapid vote before the election is imprudent. It’s dangerously hypocritical and inflammatory in an already-volatile and cynical time.

Yet those of you following the judicial wars closely know that in some quarters Judge Barrett is especially controversial—beyond the obvious and ongoing judicial differences between progressives and conservatives. There is a persistent religious critique of Judge Barrett that began when Sen. Dianne Feinstein touched off a firestorm by saying to Barrett in her court of appeals confirmation hearing, “The dogma lives loudly within you.”

With those words, it appeared that she was imposing an unconstitutional religious test on Barrett’s bid for public office. Why was she singled out? Yes, she’s a faithful Catholic, but she’s hardly the only faithful Catholic in the federal judiciary (much less the Supreme Court). Her jurisprudence will likely be pro-life to some degree, but she’s hardly the only the judge who’s faced confirmation suspicions that she’ll oppose Roe.

Instead, the claim appears to be that Barrett is unique. She’s not just religious, she’s super-religious. Or perhaps weirdly religious. And that allegedly weird, extreme religiosity makes her judicial integrity and commitment to the Constitution suspect. The critique centers around her membership in an ecumenical (but predominantly Catholic) charismatic Christian group called “People of Praise.” Back in 2018, prominent law professor and former George W. Bush ethics attorney Richard Painter tweeted a rather blunt, succinct critique:

    A religious group in which members take an oath of loyalty to each other and are supervised by a male “head” or female “handmaiden.” That looks like a cult. Now she wants a seat on SCOTUS for the sole purpose of overturning Roe v. Wade. The answer is NO.

Friday night, HBO’s Bill Maher called her a “f**kin’ nut” and said she was “Catholic. Really Catholic. I mean, really, really Catholic—like speaking in tongues.” On Thursday Mother Jones published its own concerned report (similar concerns were also printed in Politico):

    Amy Coney Barrett is a member of People of Praise, a charismatic covenant community in South Bend, Indiana, known for the submissive role played by women, some of whom were called “handmaids”—at least until the Handmaid’s aired in 2017.

The media hits just keep on coming. Earlier last week, Newsweek wrongly connected People of Praise to the Handmaid’s Tale, Margaret Atwood’s dystopian novel of religiously inspired sex slavery. Newsweek later corrected its piece, and outlets on the right and left fact-checked it into oblivion. In fact, Vox was unequivocal: “To be absolutely clear: People of Praise is not an inspiration for The Handmaid’s Tale, and the group does not practice sexual slavery or any of the other dystopian practices Atwood wrote about in her novel.”

No sex slavery? That’s a relief.

So, if they’re not sex slavers, what is the case against People of Praise? In 2017, the New York Times posted a report titled “Some worry about judicial nominee’s ties to a religious group.” You can read the entire thing, but the core case is contained in these three paragraphs:

    Some of the group’s practices would surprise many faithful Catholics. Members of the group swear a lifelong oath of loyalty, called a covenant, to one another, and are assigned and are accountable to a personal adviser, called a “head” for men and a “handmaid” for women. The group teaches that husbands are the heads of their wives and should take authority over the family.

More:

    Current and former members say that the heads and handmaids give direction on important decisions, including whom to date or marry, where to live, whether to take a job or buy a home, and how to raise children.

And:

    Legal scholars said that such loyalty oaths could raise legitimate questions about a judicial nominee’s independence and impartiality. The scholars said in interviews that while there certainly was no religious test test for office, it would have been relevant for the senators to examine what it means for a judicial nominee to make an oath to a group that could wield significant authority over its members’ lives.

The more I looked into People of Praise, the more I had two simultaneous thoughts: First, many millions of American Christians see echoes of their lives in Judge Barrett’s story. And second, lots of folks really don’t understand both spiritual authority and spiritual community. The concerns about Barrett reflect in part the glaring gaps in religious knowledge in elite American media.

In other words, New York Times executive editor Dean Baquet was right when he told NPR’s Terry Gross, “We don't get religion. We don't get the role of religion in people's lives.”

So let’s try to “get religion,” especially in the context of close-knit religious fellowships like People of Praise. First, outside of true cults, the concept of spiritual authority and spiritual “headship” is quite divorced from the lurid fears and imaginations of many Americans—and it rarely has anything at all to do with law, politics, or the American Constitution. It has much more to do with religious doctrine and religious practice—orthodoxy and orthopraxy. And words and terms that sound strange to secular ears are simply biblical and traditional to countless Christian Americans.

I’ll give you an example. My family recently moved from Columbia, Tennessee, to Franklin, Tennessee, and that meant we had to move on from our beloved Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) congregation in Columbia to join a new church. When we joined that church, we took membership vows, and those vows included a promise to submit ourselves “to the government and discipline of the church.”

Combine that pledge with the reality that there is a category of elders in the PCA called “ruling elders” (yep, that’s the term), and it’s easy to imagine the essays expressing concern if I were ever nominated to anything (no chance of that!)— “David French has agreed to ‘submit’ to the ‘government and discipline’ of his ‘ruling elders.’ Can he be trusted to uphold his oath of office?”

It gets even worse. “French consults with his so-called ‘rulers’ on matters relating to his marriage, his career, and his finances. He even joins small groups of believers, and those groups often have leaders who ‘hold him accountable’ to the doctrines and practices of his faith.”

Sounds ominous, right? It might even sound a little culty. But then you realize what’s actually happening. To the extent that the leaders exert real authority, it’s to uphold the teachings of the church—making sure that the words of the church (in the pulpit and in Sunday School) match the beliefs of the church.

To the extent that the leaders impose discipline, it’s after a careful and compassionate process that provides ample opportunities for repentance—such as urging an adulterous husband to return to his wife and removing him from church membership if he does not.

What about all that “interference” in marriage, careers, and finances? Well, that’s the totally normal and valuable process of providing counsel and prayer to individuals who might be facing a crossroads or a crisis. Sure, an elder or leader might have real influence, but that’s because they’ve demonstrated actual wisdom and spiritual maturity. Their words are worth hearing.

Moreover, tight-knit Christian communities aren’t “weird” or “strange.” Instead, they provide an immense blessing of close fellowship, of deep friendships. Because people are highly imperfect, there is no question that some communities and some fellowships can be dysfunctional, but the mere existence of the fellowship is not suspicious.

And what about the “strangeness” of the charismatic movement? While there are certainly extreme elements within charismatic Christianity (roughly defined as the strand of the faith that believes spiritual gifts—like healing, prophecy, and tongues—described in the New Testament persist today), it also happens to be one of the fastest-growing faiths in the world.

A branch of Christianity that began with the Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles in 1906 now counts more than half a billion believers worldwide.

In fact, I have direct experience with a tight-knit group that experienced a charismatic renewal. No, it wasn’t Catholic. We were almost entirely Protestant. I didn’t speak in tongues, but I experienced perhaps the greatest period of sustained spiritual growth in my life. I made friends that have lasted a lifetime. Most of us lived together, we ate together, and—yes—we held each other accountable. We had leaders we looked up to for spiritual guidance and wisdom.

What was the name of that group? The Harvard Law School Christian Fellowship. And one of our key leaders, a woman of tremendous faith, is now the Jeremiah Smith, Jr. Professor of Law at Harvard. The rest of us are scattered across the country, and many are doing remarkable and compassionate works for our nation and for the church.

And that brings me to my final point. Any evaluation of actual people in real religious fellowships can and should apply a simple scriptural test, “You will recognize them by their fruits.”

And what are the fruits of the People of Praise? While every group has disgruntled members (I’m sure you can find one or two from my church), the overall response is glowing. As I wrote when Barrett’s faith first became controversial:

    {I}t’s a group so nefarious that the late Cardinal Francis George wrote, “In my acquaintance with the People of Praise, I have found men and women dedicated to God and eager to seek and do His divine will. They are shaped by love of Holy Scripture, prayer and community; and the Church’s mission is richer for their presence.” It’s so dastardly that Pope Francis appointed one of its members as auxiliary bishop of Portland. And it’s so insular that it’s founded three schools that have won a total of seven [now nine] Department of Education Blue Ribbon awards.

And what are the fruits of Judge Barrett’s life? She’s a mom of seven kids, two adopted and one with special needs. She clerked for Justice Antonin Scalia, she was a respected law professor, and now she’s a judge on the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals. She’s already written standout opinions during her time on the bench.

Progressive Harvard Law School professor Noah Feldman, who clerked alongside Barrett at the Supreme Court in the late 1990s, endorsed her yesterday in a Bloomberg essay. After first decrying Republican hypocrisy surrounding her nomination, Feldman says this:

    Yet these political judgments need to be distinguished from a separate question: what to think about Judge Amy Coney Barrett, whom Trump has told associates he plans to nominate. And here I want to be extremely clear. Regardless of what you or I may think of the circumstances of this nomination, Barrett is highly qualified to serve on the Supreme Court.

    I disagree with much of her judicial philosophy and expect to disagree with many, maybe even most of her future votes and opinions. Yet despite this disagreement, I know her to be a brilliant and conscientious lawyer who will analyze and decide cases in good faith, applying the jurisprudential principles to which she is committed. Those are the basic criteria for being a good justice. Barrett meets and exceeds them.

I’ll say one last thing about Barrett’s faith. A fundamental aspect of faithful Christian commitment is truthfulness. “Let your ‘yes’ be yes and your ‘no’ be no.” Barrett has a reputation for integrity.

So when she declares that her judicial opinions are guided by the facts of the case and the text of the law — and not the doctrines of her church or the leadership of her religious fellowship — and when that declaration is buttressed by an impressive record of scholarship and jurisprudence, Americans can be sure that Trump has nominated a serious conservative scholar and good and decent person to the highest court in the land.
#15124943
ingliz wrote:@Stormsmith

Amy Coney Barrett has been obsessive in her desire to repeal the ACA, attacking both Supreme Court decisions upholding the law.

ACA is very bad. When it came up our premiums went up big time with high deductibles. It was a plan for low income people and a killer for the middle class and above. We need a public plan to compete with the private plans. The poor can get Medicaid for free.
#15124944
Stormsmith wrote:Gentlemen

If that's the case then, considering we're in the midst of a pandemic, and you're in the midst of an election, I'd reject it, too

You will not get anyone more benign than Judge Amy. Her only downside is that she is Catholic. Sotomayor is also Catholic. Teddy Kennedy was a hard core Catholic. No worries!
#15124947
I disagree. If she kills health care, that's an issue. You can always get a more affordable one. If they also overturn Roe V Wade, a lot of couples will be in trouble. Maybe you and yours could go down to Mexico, but you and your partner can't come up here. Nor the UK ect.
#15124953
blackjack21 wrote:Nobody will be in trouble. It will be a decision that reverts to the states.


Liberals like the intended functioning of the Constitutional government when it suits them only. Then they're rabid ''federalists''.
#15124955
Stormsmith wrote:I disagree. If she kills health care, that's an issue. You can always get a more affordable one. If they also overturn Roe V Wade, a lot of couples will be in trouble. Maybe you and yours could go down to Mexico, but you and your partner can't come up here. Nor the UK ect.

Nothing is going to happen. Politicians like to scare people so they can get elected.
#15125045
Julian658 wrote:ACA is very bad.


Which is a political opinion, nothing else. The SCOTUS should stay out of that shit, unless is plain obvious that it's unconstitutional.

Stormsmith wrote:If they also overturn Roe V Wade, a lot of couples will be in trouble..


Roe v. Wade is another political decision. This should be decided by Congress or the states.
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