Cult leader who claims to be reincarnation of Jesus arrested in Russia - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15122212
Well he had a good run, 30 years. Seems he may have become too financially influential to be tolerated. He was controlling towns of thousands.

Russian authorities mounted a special operation to arrest a former traffic police officer who claims to be the reincarnation of Jesus and has run a cult based in the depths of Siberia for the past three decades.

Helicopters and armed officers stormed communities run by Sergei Torop, known to his followers as Vissarion, and arrested him and two of his aides. Russia’s investigative committee said it would charge him with organising an illegal religious organisation, alleging that the cult extorted money from followers and subjected them to emotional abuse.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ria-russia


#15122523
According to the rules of the community, they are prohibited from eating food of animal origin, sugar, salt and a number of other products. Community members reject traditional medicine and use alternative healing methods. Several children diagnosed with oncology and other serious illnesses died as a result. Former members of the community and their relatives were asked about the disappearance of people in the community, the forcible confiscation of housing and money, the use of illegal methods of influencing followers, as well as the burial of novices. Probably the cult leader killed some followers to steal their money or assets and he will be charged with murder. Torop is eerily similar to Japan's Aum cult leader Shoko Asahara, who had been executed some years ago.

The case of corruption and fraud against the Istoki school, which belongs to the Vissarion community, and its director, Vladimir Vedernikov, are under investigation, community resident Vadim Redkin said on February 17 on his Facebook page.

According to a community member, investigators from the fifth investigation department of the Russian IC of the city of Novosibirsk have been conducting operational work in the Vissarion community for several months. Searches are being conducted on the territory. Material evidence was seized, more than 100 people were interviewed.

Redkin writes about the economic structure of the school: "About a third of the teachers' salaries are voluntarily and consistently combined for the development of this school and the payment of salaries to those teachers who work at the school, but are not officially employed due to the lack of necessary documents."

He assures that among the inhabitants of the City of the Sun (as the community living in it is called), "it is not customary to engage in concealing unacceptable actions."

Recall that a resident of the city of Minusinsk Sergey Anatolyevich Torop declared himself the prophet Vissarion in 1991 and conducted the first sermon on television. Later he formalized his teaching, which he called "The Last Testament."

In 1996, with his first followers, one of whom was Vadim Redkin, Vissarion built the "City of the Sun" in the Krasnoyarsk Territory. In December 2000, the organization was registered with the Ministry of Justice and adopted the official name "Church of the Last Testament".

ИА Красная Весна
Читайте материал целиком по ссылке:
https://rossaprimavera.ru/news/9f5750b0
Last edited by ThirdTerm on 24 Sep 2020 10:39, edited 1 time in total.
#15124269
Everyone is assuming that this is NOT the promised messiah, and that he is definitely a fake.

This is because the very idea of a messiah coming to earth and saving everyone from an imminent destruction is silly and childlike.

And yet, organized religion provides so much of our political diet, influencing people who can blow up the entire world.
#15124275
Beren wrote:state didn't approve him. Jesus had been fake until the Roman state approved him, he was even crucified for faking messiah.

So this Russian guy is no different, and thus, possibly the Second Coming (if he can find a state sponsor, or dies in a way that can empower an empire).

But as for dying for being a "fake" messiah.... the Romans weren't waiting for a messiah, so it's unlikely that they would punish fakes. More likely that Jesus was killed for sedition during a particularly fascist period of the Roman Empire.
#15124344
QatzelOk wrote:But as for dying for being a "fake" messiah.... the Romans weren't waiting for a messiah, so it's unlikely that they would punish fakes.

But the Jews were and Jesus was "condemned by the Jewish authorities for various accusations: violating the Sabbath law (by healing on the Sabbath), threatening to destroy the Jewish Temple, sorcery, exorcising people by the power of demons, and claiming to be both the Messiah and the Son of God. The Jewish leaders then take Jesus to Pontius Pilate, the governor of Roman Judaea, and ask that he be tried for claiming to be the King of the Jews." (Wikipedia)

Well, they punished him for being a fake king of the Jews. So he wasn't crucified for faking messiah formally, but actually he was since he said his kingdom was not of this world.
#15124346
Beren wrote:But the Jews were and Jesus was "condemned by the Jewish authorities for various accusations: violating the Sabbath law (by healing on the Sabbath), threatening to destroy the Jewish Temple, sorcery, exorcising people by the power of demons, and claiming to be both the Messiah and the Son of God. The Jewish leaders then take Jesus to Pontius Pilate, the governor of Roman Judaea, and ask that he be tried for claiming to be the King of the Jews." (Wikipedia)

Well, they punished him for being a fake king of the Jews. So he wasn't crucified for faking messiah formally, but actually he was since he said his kingdom was not of this world.

Claiming to be the Jewish Messiah was sufficient grounds for the Romans to execute Jesus for sedition. There was only one 'King of the Jews', and he was a Roman client. All other claimants were guilty of sedition, by definition.
#15124348
Potemkin wrote:Claiming to be the Jewish Messiah was sufficient grounds for the Romans to execute Jesus for sedition. There was only one 'King of the Jews', and he was a Roman client. All other claimants were guilty of sedition, by definition.

However, Jesus didn't claim to be an earthly king and didn't mean to replace any Roman client. He actually said "Give the emperor what belongs to the emperor, give God what belongs to God, and give me what is mine." So the Romans didn't have much ground to execute him, they did the Sanhedrin a favour actually.
#15124352
Beren wrote:However, Jesus didn't claim to be an earthly king and didn't mean to replace any Roman client. He actually said "Give the emperor what belongs to the emperor, give God what belongs to God, and give me what is mine." So the Romans didn't have much ground to execute him, they did the Sanhedrin a favour actually.

The Romans wouldn't have cared or likely even known about such fine distinctions in Jesus' political position. But yes, Pontius Pilate was probably doing it as a favour to the Sanhedrin. You scratch my back I scratch yours, sort of thing....
#15124358
Potemkin wrote:The Romans wouldn't have cared or likely even known about such fine distinctions in Jesus' political position. But yes, Pontius Pilate was probably doing it as a favour to the Sanhedrin. You scratch my back I scratch yours, sort of thing....

Whatever he knew about Jesus, he must have been aware that he wasn't dangerous to Rome itself, the whole Roman Empire became Christian later for a reason, so he wasn't crucified for the same reason as Spartacus was. However, he realised JC was dangerous to the Jewish establishment, the priesthood especially, and the status quo, on which Roman rule was based. Maybe he also meant to prevent a Jewish civil war in Judea, which would have caused lots of troubles to the Romans and Pilate himself, of course.
#15124363
Beren wrote:Whatever he knew about Jesus, he must have been aware that he wasn't dangerous to Rome itself, the whole Roman Empire became Christian later for a reason, so he wasn't crucified for the same reason as Spartacus was. However, he realised JC was dangerous to the Jewish establishment, the priesthood especially, and the status quo, on which Roman rule was based. Maybe he also meant to prevent a Jewish civil war in Judea, which would have caused lots of troubles to the Romans and Pilate himself, of course.

Indeed. When you're the governor of a Roman province, you must consider factors such as this. Political considerations will and must override notions of abstract justice for that individual. Besides, in Pilate's mind, Jesus was actively going out there and preaching to the mob. That alone made him potentially dangerous and, probably in Pilate's mind, the author of his own fate.
#15124434
Potemkin wrote:Indeed. When you're the governor of a Roman province, you must consider factors such as this. Political considerations will and must override notions of abstract justice for that individual. Besides, in Pilate's mind, Jesus was actively going out there and preaching to the mob. That alone made him potentially dangerous and, probably in Pilate's mind, the author of his own fate.

So both sedition and blasphemy are both thought crimes.

And the argument seems to be whether it was the Sicilians or the Jews who whacked this particular free spirit who rejected the legitimacy of (at least some) thought crime laws.

Was it a Sicilian mob hit, or a Jewish witch-burning party?

(By the way:
"And it came to pass, in those days, there went out a degree from Bill Gates, that all the world would be vaccinated." :eek: )
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