The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 55 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15129687
Pants-of-dog wrote:We already know what would happen:

The person wearing the mask would have a slight reduction in their chance of being infected.

But if you took an infected person and out them in a room with someone, and then compared that to putting a mask on the infected person and then putting someone in the same room, the mask would provide a significant reduction in the risk of infection.


How do you know this to be the case? Has it been tried anywhere with the coronavirus?
#15129688
Doug64 wrote:So require those that are infectious to wear masks or even those that are known to have been exposed and might be infectious, while we run the test to see if that’s the case. But for the government to require everyone to wear masks in the off chance they might have been exposed somehow somewhere somewhen? No, not for a disease as nonlethal as this one.


So you want the government to test everyone, and then have the government force people to carry some sort of identification that shows if they are infected or not. And you would like the government to trace everyone’s movements to see if they have been in contact with infected people, and then those who have had contact must also have some sort of identification.

And all of this because you want the government to not tell everyone to wear masks when out in the public.

Even if we were willing to accept such a high level of state intrusion into our lives, I honestly doubt that governments in North America have the resources to monitor everything that closely, especially the USA.

——————-

@maz

Please clarify what you are asking me.
#15129689
Doug64 wrote:So require those that are infectious to wear masks or even those that are known to have been exposed and might be infectious, while we run the test to see if that’s the case.
How do you know if someone has it if some people don't show symptoms, or show them weeks after infection? Have you thought this through?

maz wrote:Has it been tried anywhere with the coronavirus?
Rancid already explained this to you. Pay attention. There's too many variables for them to do studies on it and they KNOW that the masks help prevent transmission via the moisture of your breath. There's a reason why doctors have been wearing masks for almost 100 years, you know.
#15129694
Pants-of-dog wrote:So you want the government to test everyone, and then have the government force people to carry some sort of identification that shows if they are infected or not. And you would like the government to trace everyone’s movements to see if they have been in contact with infected people, and then those who have had contact must also have some sort of identification.

And all of this because you want the government to not tell everyone to wear masks when out in the public.

Even if we were willing to accept such a high level of state intrusion into our lives, I honestly doubt that governments in North America have the resources to monitor everything that closely, especially the USA.


That's all coming. Of course, it all started with 15 days slow the spread, then 30 days to flatten the curve, then just wear a mask for a few more months, now it's no going back to normal until there is a vaccine in 2022 maybe, and you have to wear a mask until then.

They've already designed the systems, somehow after only six months after the pandemic began.



Irish-based ROQU Group launches world-first 'Health Passport' digital platform to support increased global COVID-19 testing

DUBLIN, Aug. 28, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- The Irish-based ROQU Group has announced the pilot launch of Health Passport, a world-first digital platform designed to facilitate increased COVID-19 testing for businesses and the public.

Engineered in Ireland, the platform combines the latest digital technologies with highly accurate and validated COVID-19 testing solutions, delivering results in as little as 15 minutes. The platform will enable businesses and individuals to quickly minimise risks related to COVID-19 and ensure they can continue daily activities

Health Passport is launching with a trial involving a select range of national participants representing a diverse range of industry sectors: healthcare (hospital, nursing home), logistics, agriculture, education, childcare, entertainment, and others.

Supporting businesses, protecting communities

The platform has been developed to help national economies by enabling businesses to remain open through continuous proactive testing of employees, identifying positive results at the earliest stage whilst simultaneously protecting communities by offering increased testing.

"Around the world, there is continued frustration and disappointment due to COVID-19 restrictions," said Robert Quirke, President and CEO of ROQU Group, at today's launch.

"Health Passport is designed to put a safety net in place where none currently exists, allowing economies to recover and thrive in a controlled environment," said Mr Quirke. "It is a world-first innovation, proudly engineered in Ireland to the highest standards, that will enable business and society to finally move forward. The game changer has finally arrived."

Works with all official COVID-19 tests

Health Passport has been developed specifically to work in harmony with all official COVID-19 tests, including laboratory swab and blood tests, and the very latest rapid testing solutions soon to be launched.

"Using our global visibility, we are helping local companies by making the best COVID-19 testing solutions readily available to all," said ROQU's Robert Quirke. "As testing and research continues to improve, we want to ensure that Irish society and economy can easily access testing solutions that offer the highest levels of clinical validation.

"The purpose of the pilot trial is to demonstrate how Health Passport works across a variety of real-life business and social scenarios," he added.

Amid calls for increased testing for the public, ROQU says that newly engineered rapid tests can provide the solution needed to stop the spread of the virus. Where no testing solution is already in place, Health Passport is providing the very latest rapid antibody blood tests and rapid antigen swab tests, which deliver a highly accurate diagnosis in less than 15 minutes. The testing solutions are engineered, manufactured, and clinically validated in Europe.

"Current situation not sustainable"

"We are all aware that the current situation regarding viral outbreaks in businesses and communities is simply not sustainable," said Robert Quirke. "There are too many gaps in the current testing system that are hindering our ability to get the economy and normal life back on track. It is time to immediately close those gaps.

"This platform provides the breakthrough we have been waiting for and can become the standard solution for business, travel, education, healthcare, events and all aspects of daily life," said Mr Quirke. "Every person on the Health Passport platform now represents one life and one job protected."

ROQU Group has announced that, in addition to Ireland, the Health Passport platform will be launched in the US, UK, Italy, Kenya and Germany, with other locations to follow. Health Passport has been developed as part of ROQU's international philanthropic and altruistic mission.

#15129697
Rancid wrote:What is the worry with government mandated masks anyway? The government mandates so much shit all the time. No? What makes a (temporary) mask mandate especially insidious?

They think the left will use it to take their freedom or something. It's the belief that there is a conspiracy going on to exaggerate the virus' effects for that reason as well.
#15129698
And once again, @Pants-of-dog takes the gold in the conclusions long jump.

Godstud wrote:How do you know if someone has it if some people don't show symptoms, or show them weeks after infection? Have you thought this through?

If you don’t know you don’t know, and if you have no reason to suspect you don’t mandate, at least if you’re the state. As I said, businesses are another matter.
#15129699
John Ioannidis - The medicalization of society is becoming a major threat to humanity


Ioannidis graduated in the top rank of his class at the University of Athens Medical School, then attended Harvard University for his medical residency in internal medicine. He did a fellowship at Tufts University for infectious disease.

From 1998 to 2010, Ioannidis was chairman of the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine. In 2002, he became an adjunct professor at Tufts University School of Medicine. He has also been president of the Society for Research Synthesis Methodology. He is highly cited, having an h-index of 196 on Google Scholar in 2020.

He is now Professor of Medicine, Health Research and Policy, and of Biomedical Data Science at Stanford University School of Medicine and a professor, by courtesy, of Statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences. He is director of the Stanford Prevention Research Center, and co-director, along with Steven N. Goodman, of the Meta-Research Innovation Center at Stanford (METRICS).

He was the editor-in-chief of the European Journal of Clinical Investigation from 2010 to 2019.
#15129703
Rancid wrote:What is the worry with government mandated masks anyway? The government mandates so much shit all the time. No? What makes a (temporary) mask mandate especially insidious?


Why don't you give that some serious thought and try to work out the best argument possible for why mask mandates are a bad idea. You post a steel man argument aginst mask mandates and I'll post the strongest argument I can muster in favor of them and then we can have a real conversation.
#15129705
Sivad wrote:Why don't you give that some serious thought and try to work out the best argument possible for why mask mandates are a bad idea. You post a steel man argument aginst mask mandates and I'll post the strongest argument I can muster in favor of them and then we can have a real conversation.


They are bad if you do not want the government imposing restrictions on your day to day life. This could change the mostly individualistic culture we have, and turn us into rule follower collectivists drones.

GO!
Last edited by Rancid on 23 Oct 2020 20:39, edited 1 time in total.
#15129709
Rancid wrote:What is the worry with government mandated masks anyway? The government mandates so much shit all the time. No? What makes a (temporary) mask mandate especially insidious?


They're huge bitch babies and they want something to tantrum about.
#15129712
Rancid wrote:They are bad if you do not want the government imposing restrictions on your day to day life. This could change the mostly individualistic culture we have, and turn us into rule follower collectivists drones.

GO!


Yeah, that's about what I thought.
#15129718
Doug64 wrote:And once again, @Pants-of-dog takes the gold in the conclusions long jump.


I doubt it. Please explain how.

My claim is that masks provide a significant reduction in risk of passing the virus on, when worn by the infected person.

If this is a criticism of my depiction of your argument that only infected people (and those with whom the infected person has interacted) be required to wear masks, please note that I simply added the necessary logistics for your policy to be enacted.

If you can think of some way to ensure that only those two groups are required to wear masks and that does not require such overbearing intrusion into our lives by government, please let us know.

If you don’t know you don’t know, and if you have no reason to suspect you don’t mandate, at least if you’re the state. As I said, businesses are another matter.


If you are going to assume that everyone does not have the Trump virus unless tested, since that is the only way to know, then you are not requiring people who have it but have not been tested to spread the disease.

This also lets all pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic people off the hook as well.

So the only people who should be required to wear masks are those who have tested positive, but there is no way of knowing who has tested positive. So, even these people cannot be “known” to be carrying the virus can choose to not wear the mask.

This seems like a completely ineffective proposal.
#15129723
Rancid wrote:They are bad if you do not want the government imposing restrictions on your day to day life. This could change the mostly individualistic culture we have, and turn us into rule follower collectivists drones.

GO!

If anything, I suspect this has made wide swaths of the US more individualistic, not less, as people look at the damage we’ve inflicted on the economy—and them and their families personally, in many cases—for a disease that, for most of them and especially for their children, simply isn’t that big of a threat.
#15129725
Random American wrote:They think the left will use it to take their freedom or something. It's the belief that there is a conspiracy going on to exaggerate the virus' effects for that reason as well.


Liberals never let a thing like the constitution ge in their way.

Of course there is a conspiracy to exaggerate it. Perfect example, why is every single positive test treated like a death sentence and a breaking news story yet you hardly ever hear about recoveries. It is fear porn.
#15129726
Doug64 wrote:If anything, I suspect this has made wide swaths of the US more individualistic, not less, as people look at the damage we’ve inflicted on the economy—and them and their families personally, in many cases—for a disease that, for most of them and especially for their children, simply isn’t that big of a threat.


So no reason to worry about the mask mandate.

I am inclined to agree with you. I don't think this mask mandate is a danger to the current culture and may strengthen it, for better or worse.
#15129732
Finfinder wrote:Why is it that every team sport (from college to professional ) has been successful and no one to my knowledge in any league has contracted Corona Virus from playing a team sport. How is that possible when they don't wear masks?


huh? There have been reports of COVID infections in college football, NFL and NBA. You living under a rock?

NFL games have been postponed due to infections. They are talking about moving the super bowl to march due to all the postponements. This is REALLY easy to look up.

You really do lower the quality of discussion here.
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