Conflict in the USA? - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By ckaihatsu
#15127003
Protesters [in Wauwatosa], including the family of Cole, have been quickly set upon and arrested by police for “violating curfew” during the protests. However, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that five vehicles full of heavily armed white men were allowed to “patrol” residential neighborhoods past 11:20 p.m., over four hours after curfew.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/1 ... v-o12.html
#15128429
I think I'll just put in one final word about this before the election. America might get out of significant unrest this time. I think the election will be very close, because, like in 2016, liberals are getting all bullish about their chances of winning, and some probably won't vote again because of this. Conversely, Trumpians are hanging on for dear life, and will, almost every one of them, get out to vote this time.

My prediction has been that if this happens, and the election result is close, the Republicans are most likely to call a Biden win illegitimate and start some kind of uproar. However, if, as polls suggest, Biden wins by a large margin, I imagine Republicans won't be stupid enough to maintain an "it was rigged" story for long. If this happens, congratulations Americans, you have avoided conflict this time. With that said, I think people should really go back and look at the breakup of Yugoslavia if they think Balkanisation can't happen in the United States. If the process starts, it will be irreversible. That is all.
#15128443
@Local Localist

Local Localist wrote:I think I'll just put in one final word about this before the election. America might get out of significant unrest this time. I think the election will be very close, because, like in 2016, liberals are getting all bullish about their chances of winning, and some probably won't vote again because of this. Conversely, Trumpians are hanging on for dear life, and will, almost every one of them, get out to vote this time.

My prediction has been that if this happens, and the election result is close, the Republicans are most likely to call a Biden win illegitimate and start some kind of uproar. However, if, as polls suggest, Biden wins by a large margin, I imagine Republicans won't be stupid enough to maintain an "it was rigged" story for long. If this happens, congratulations Americans, you have avoided conflict this time. With that said, I think people should really go back and look at the breakup of Yugoslavia if they think Balkanisation can't happen in the United States. If the process starts, it will be irreversible. That is all.


I think you are absolutely correct. I served as a NATO SFOR peacekeeper in Bosnia. Been to Potocari, Srebrencia, Zvornik, Kula Grad, Zvencia, Tuzla, Osmaci, Butmir, Sarajevo, Mostar and Brutnac. A few other places in Bosnia as well. Seen the old yellow Holiday Inn in Sarajevo and been through Sniper Alley. Those are some of the places I have been to in Bosnia while serving with SFOR. Kula Grad overlooked Zvornik up top a mountain and at the time every single home in Kula Grad was blown to smithereens. Zvornik was by the Drina River and had a hotel that sat by the Drina River that was used as a rape camp during the war in Bosnia by the Serbs. Rape was a weapon of war that was used in Bosnia before the NATO intervention.

However, one of the things I learned in the former Yugoslavia was that this sort of thing can happen ANYWHERE. It can happen in the U.S. See, what happened in the Balkans is not unique to the Balkans. It wasn't some sort of Balkan freak show unique only to the Balkans. It was something that can happen anywhere. Every country has seams that can be pulled on to tear it apart. All it takes is a cunning, smart manipulator like a Slobodan Milosevic or a Donald Trump to grab those seams and start tearing it apart. What I saw in Donald Trump BEFORE he was elected in 2016 was another Slobodan Milosevic.

I remember when I was patrolling Mostar with my unit. We were ordered down to Mostar from our more northern location in Bosnia to assist the French Marines. French Marines were very tough, well trained and good soldiers. I have the highest respect for them. Good soldiers and good people. Anyway, in Mostar, they had a bridge at the time and at that time I was there it was blown apart. If I remember the name correctly it was called the Stari Moast bridge (Not sure if I spelled it correctly). I read somewhere that many years later it has since been rebuilt.

That being said, it beginning to look like we dodged a conflict here in the U.S. But Donald Trump, if the circumstances are right, would certainly push the U.S. into conflict if it would keep him in power. Much like Slobodan Milosevic did to the Balkans. It's beginning to look like we got very lucky this time. But the election isn't over yet. I don't have a crystal ball to predict the future. You never know what can happen in the future. But this time, so far (and that could quickly change), it looks like we "dodged a bullet" so to speak here in the U.S. and it looks like we will avoid conflict thank god.

People here in the U.S. have no concept of what happened in the Balkans because they never seen the aftermath of such conflict. I mean, what happened in the Balkans was massive. Much of what I saw over there at that time was a scene out of destroyed European cities from movies like "Saving Private Ryan" or "Band of Brothers." And mass graves from massacres that took place during the war were EVERYWHERE at the time I was there. But that can happen here (the U.S.). It can happen anywhere in the world.
#15128450
@Local Localist

Here is an article on the French Marines where they conducted a bayonet charge against Serb forces that took some of their fellow French Marines hostage during the Bosnian war when the French Marines were serving as UN peacekeepers rather than NATO peacekeepers. Very good soldiers. We road marched all up and down the mountains of Bosnia around and close by Mostar with the French Marines at the time I was there. People here in the U.S. like to talk smack about the French here in the U.S. but you will NEVER hear me talk smack about the French. I have nothing but the highest respect for the French and their military:

Blake Stilwell of We Are The Mighty wrote:French Marines were manning observation posts on either side of the Vrbanja Bridge. They were UN peacekeepers, the first to arrive in the decimated city of Sarajevo during the Bosnian War in May 1995. But their day was to begin in humiliation and end in bloodshed as their mission to hold the observation posts quickly escalated into the first UN combat mission of the war.

When they first began their occupation of the bridge, one side was overtaken by Bosnian Serb commandos. Dressed in French uniforms and donning French weapons, the commandos took one side of the bridge without firing a shot. They even pulled up to the post in a stolen French armored personnel carrier. For many of the Serbs, it was the last thing they would ever do.

At gunpoint, the 10 French marines were disarmed and taken captive, and driven to another location. The other two were to be used on the bridge as human shields. The other side of the bridge didn't even know their comrades had been overrun and captured. When the other unit didn't check in with headquarters, their platoon commander came to check in on the Marines – he then sounded the alarm. When their fellow marines discovered their friends had been taken captive, they decided to move quickly on the Serb commandos.

"When the Serbs took our soldiers under their control by threat, by dirty tricks, they began to act as terrorists, you cannot support this," Said Col. Erik Sandahl, commander of the 4th French Battalion. "You must react. The moment comes when you have to stop it. Full stop. And we did."

When French President Jacques Chirac found out about the captured French marines, he went around the UN and ordered his troops to retake the bridge and find the missing men. The French sent 30 more Marines, 13 APCs, and 70 French Army soldiers to the bridge. But they couldn't just blow up the observation post or do a regular infantry assault on the position. There were still hostages inside. They were going to have to do it the old fashioned way.

The French marines mounted their first bayonet charge since the Korean War.

After the bayonet charge, a 32-minute firefight ensued that saw one of the French hostages shot by a Bosnian sniper, the other hostage escaped, three Frenchmen killed in action and another ten wounded, along with four Serbs killed, three wounded and another four taken prisoner. The 10 French hostages were later released. The Serbs soldiers captured were treated as prisoners of war and held by the UN peacekeeping force.

It was the last time the French Army ever launched a bayonet charge, but for the rest of the time the French were participating as UN Peacekeepers in Bosnia, the Serbian forces kept a clear, noticeable distance from them.


https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/ ... belltitem3
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By ckaihatsu
#15128865

This is the mechanism for suppressing social opposition: Jacobin and the DSA capitulate to Sanders, who capitulates to Biden, who yields to Trump. Without this dynamic, Trump’s position would be untenable.

The growth of a fascist movement in the United States is a reality. This is Trump’s political strategy on November 3 and beyond. And even if he were to lose the election, Trump would still have the long months between November 3 and January 20, 2021 to pardon his far-right supporters and escalate his fascist strategy.



https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/1 ... s-o20.html
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By ckaihatsu
#15129765

In a major speech delivered yesterday on behalf of Biden in Philadelphia, former president Barack Obama made no reference to the plot to kill two sitting governors from his own party. Though the press has universally declared that the speech was “scathing,” Obama did not make a single reference to Whitmer, Northam, Michigan, Virginia, Proud Boys, militia, the far-right, dictatorship or Trump’s statement that fascists should “stand by” for election day.

The Democratic Party has all but dropped the matter for fear that alerting the public about the threat of dictatorship will radicalize the population and engender social opposition to the entire political establishment.



https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/1 ... t-o23.html
By Rich
#15132734
Unthinking Majority wrote:If Trump refused to obey the law and leave power if he loses,

And who decides what the law is? Liberals are gas lighting us. If the Supreme Court rules that Trump has lost, and Trump refused to accept the judgement of the supreme court, the army would not side with him.
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By Godstud
#15132735
@Rich You have no fucking clue what gaslighting OR Liberal means. :knife:
By Rich
#15132756
For months the lame stream media has been gaslighting us about Trump not accepting the election result. I extremely doubt that Trump would not accept the ruling of the supreme court, but even if he did, even if he were that stupid, there's nothing to worry about. The army, the the Republican Senate leadership, the Republican House leadership would all side with the Supreme Court not Trump.

Even if it went 5-4 against Trump the 4 Conservative decenters would side with the Supreme Court majority not with Trump.
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By ckaihatsu
#15133217

ben franklin [pre death] • 2 hours ago • edited

We should be so lucky that the only effect is that Donald Trump simply plays a role as an opposition Republican in the case of a Biden victory. More likely is the ramping up and excitation of thousands or even tens of thousands of militia members including many police belonging to fascist groups during the period of legal challenge. If that legal challenge is defeated you can be sure these groups will blame it all on the deep state. Guerrilla actions, terrorism, and insurrection is extremely likely.

People who think this is some sort of ridiculous crack pot theory don't understand the thinking of these militia. They truly believe they are the modern day versions of the American Revolutionary soldiers defending the United States (as they see it) against a deep state hell bent on creating a Stalinist nightmare. They really believe this. And so they see nothing wrong with insurrectionary violence... in fact they truly believe it to be the highest moral action. So don't think my analysis is just some bleak sky-is-falling nonsense. It's a real prediction garnered from analysis of the current state of affairs and my understanding of the mindset of these Breitbart / Alex Jones charged militias.


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By Senter
#15133230
wat0n wrote:The 20th Amendment would (in the unlikely worst case scenario) show a way out of something like that. Most likely, votes would be recounted and the SCOTUS would decide.

Article !, Section 3 failed. Why should the 20th Amendment work?
By Senter
#15133232
Goranhammer 2.0 wrote:Biden winning is the ONLY possibility of peace in the streets. Even then, who knows.

We know who the untermensch in America are, and who they support.

What are your thoughts about the consequences of some large, national "militia" of, say, 100,000 members going around sniping and arresting and "trying" politicians, or of a general armed uprising aimed at seizing power? Who would do what?
#15133235
Senter wrote:What are your thoughts about the consequences of some large, national "militia" of, say, 100,000 members going around sniping and arresting and "trying" politicians, or of a general armed uprising aimed at seizing power? Who would do what?


Nobody. And I wouldn't condone it - just like I didn't condone the dozen or so (far from 100k) nutjobs in Michigan that plotted to kidnap the governor.

And in case you were trying to slap an ideology on them, they're also on the record as being critical of Trump.

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