Edward Snowden gets permanent residency in Russia - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15130804
@Politics_Observer Republicans have lied about Snowden. Nunes published a report that is a lie.
https://morningconsult.com/2016/12/22/d ... americans/

Snowden asked that writers like Greenwald only reveal intel that won't endanger lives.

Snowden’s defenders maintain that the U.S. government has for years exaggerated the damage his disclosures caused. Glenn Greenwald, an Intercept co-founder and former journalist at The Guardian, said there are “thousands upon thousands of documents” that journalists have chosen not to publish because they would harm peoples’ reputation or privacy rights or because it would expose “legitimate surveillance programs.”

“It’s been almost five years since newspapers around the world began reporting on the Snowden archive and the NSA has offered all kinds of shrill and reckless rhetoric about the ‘damage’ it has caused, but never any evidence of a single case of a life being endangered let alone harmed,” Greenwald said.




https://apnews.com/article/797f390ee28b ... 3cfedf0593

Also, I was Pre-Law. One thing I remember is that justice is not always served. I doubt Snowden would ever get a fair trial in the US unless the judge was liberal. Many conservative judges would want to see him rot in prison for "treason" and ultra conservatives might even want the death penalty.
#15130806
@Godstud

Godstud wrote:I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT BERGDAHL! It's a distraction!!! Snowden was not exposing soldiers to danger!

Also, if you're in a war, expect casualties. This is as bad as any other friendly fire incident... and those are usually quietly covered up.


I KNOW THAT MAN! But I told you as far as I am concerned they are all the same to me. I expect casualties in a war, I just don't expect my fellow Americans like Manning or a Snowden to put my life in danger un-necessarily. Would you be OK with one of your fellow Canadians putting your life in danger? Well fuck no, of course not. Manning and Snowden were American citizens who owed loyalty to the U.S. And because they owed loyalty to the U.S. and violated the trust that was given to them by endangering the lives of their fellow Americans (which YES they fucking did endanger the lives of their fellow Americans so stop they didn't because that's a bullshit lie) that makes them traitors. Snowden didn't have to flee or give that information to the Russians anymore than Manning needed to give it to Wikileaks. I guarantee you Putin just despises Snowden. Putin sees Snowden for who he really is: a traitor.
#15130807
@MistyTiger

It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative Misty. It has everything to do with national security and ensuring the safety of our troops, informants and our citizens. You don't get that. We don't agree.
#15130808
@Politics_Observer Answer my question. Why are you defending the NSA's illegal and unconstitutional actions? You are, by default, doing so if you are only calling Snowden the traitor.

NSA are the real traitors to the USA.


Snowden has gotten no one killed or harmed.
#15130809
@MistyTiger

And here is another article Misty. A more recent article from a reliable objective source:

The U.S. House intelligence committee on Thursday unanimously approved a blistering report on the activities of Edward Snowden, saying his disclosures of top-secret documents and programs did "tremendous damage" to national security.

"The public narrative popularized by Snowden and his allies is rife with falsehoods, exaggerations, and crucial omissions," said the report by staff members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

The report comes amid a renewed push by Snowden's supporters, who urged President Obama this week to pardon him before the president leaves office.


And the U.S. House Intelligence committee is correct.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ho ... en-n649146
#15130811
^ That committee crying about bad PR doesn't prove what you're claiming.

Politics_Observer wrote:I expect casualties in a war, I just don't expect my fellow Americans like Manning or a Snowden to put my life in danger un-necessarily.


They didn't. They revealed you were being spied on and your government was collecting your data and keeping it forever, and some stuff about mass murder, rape, torture etc.

And because they owed loyalty to the U.S. and violated the trust that was given to them by endangering the lives of their fellow Americans


The only people endangering your fellow Americans lives is the American government and themselves.

Snowden didn't have to flee or give that information to the Russians anymore than Manning needed to give it to Wikileaks.


They wouldn't have given that information to media if their superiors listened to them about the crimes they'd uncovered. You are not being respectful to the patriots in this story, ma' fellow American.
#15130847
@MistyTiger

MistyTiger wrote:Also, I was Pre-Law. One thing I remember is that justice is not always served.


Yes, you are absolutely correct. Justice for Snowden hasn't been served while he hides in Russia like the coward he is. At least, not yet. He can come home and I have no doubt he will get a fair trial and be given his just punishment.

MistyTiger wrote:I doubt Snowden would ever get a fair trial in the US unless the judge was liberal.


I have no doubt that Snowden will get a fair trial when or if he returns home. I actually think democrats are less likely to give Snowden a pardon than conservative republicans. Obama certainly wasn't going to include Snowden in his list of pardons before he left office. I seriously doubt most conservatives would do the same either (unless he is Trump who would do it for his own political purposes).
#15130850
@Politics_Observer That you continually ignore my questions about the NSA, and their actions, is telling. You find it acceptable for an intelligence organization to fuck over Americans, but not vice versa. :knife:
#15130851
The intelligence organization hasn't fucked over Americans dude. They are doing their jobs to protect our national security and the lives of our fellow Americans. It's not my problem you can't understand that.

Ohh and @MistyTiger as you mentioned before in a prior post. We all have rules we have to follow and rules exist for a reason. There were good reasons for rules to exist in the case of Snowden and he chose to break those rules and endanger the lives of U.S. troops as two of my articles above each from a different reliable source indicate. Now, you and Godstud can believe what you want to believe, but you can't choose your own facts and the logical conclusions from the intelligence services or the reports provided to the House of Representatives on the damage Snowden caused. These are very good professionals who do their jobs very well.
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 28 Oct 2020 04:32, edited 1 time in total.
#15130853
@Godstud

I know you are a Canadian. You are not one of us when it comes to my country. So, we can't expect you to fully understand the situation given you are Canadian and don't owe any loyalty to the U.S. However, Snowden did and he was trusted with a very high level security clearance with that. And that is very serious business when you are an American citizen. i am sure, the Canadian government is no different in this regard either when it comes to their own citizens and trusting some of their citizens with high level security clearances. I have no doubt if Canada had a Snowden and revealed very sensitive information that endangered the lives of Canadian troops, a Canadian court would have no sympathy for him.
#15130855
If my government had an agency that was abusing our Bill of Rights, and doing illegal surveillance, I'd want to know about it and put an end to it. I can't see why you don't.

It wouldn't make it to court in the USA, and you know it. They could use Homeland security and ship Snowden off to Guantanamo Bay, and you fucking know it!!! They'd just claim "Terrorism" and use that caveat to punish and silence him.

Snowden put no American troops in danger. You have no argument in this regard. We are not talking about Manning or Bergahl.
#15130866
Politics_Observer wrote:I'll fight both you and Misty on this till the day I die. I'll never surrender to your or Misty on this one. Nope never. I'll die first.


You have been manipulated by government propaganda @Politics_Observer. That is to say your insistence to maintain your belief is based on a lie.

Snowden gave the information to a fellow American. That is to say it wasn't for the interest of a foreign agency. The subject he gave was for the interest of a domestic affair. That is to say it had nothing to do with military movement. So you have spent three pages arguing on a position that is wrong. There is no evidence he has given Putin intel. He might not have had any to give him as he was basically marooned in Russia rather than choosing to be there. Or perhaps on the off chance Russia might not of even asked for it. So saying he is giving Russia sensitive information is an assumption at best.

So now we have reached the crux of this, have you read 1984? Or are you at least aware of it? There is a reason people are sensitive of their personal data. And personal data isn't beneficial and can be potential harmful under government surveillance. Snowden had sensitive information that was harming your fellow Americans. So who is he going to talk to about this? His superiors that are aware of the program? Or a journalist who can enlighten this to the public? The answer is simple. There is no legal channel to expose government illegal activity. Can you not understand that? And unless you are naive to believe Epstein killed himself, your government has the means to kill anyone who has sensitive information. So please stop being obtuse. You are better than that.
#15130867
@B0ycey

You have been manipulated by government propaganda @Politics_Observer. That is to say your insistence to maintain your belief is based on a lie.

Snowden gave the information to a fellow American. That is to say it wasn't for the interest of a foreign agency. The subject he gave was for the interest of a domestic affair. That is to say it had nothing to do with military movement. So you have spent three pages arguing on a position that is wrong. There is no evidence he has given Putin intel. He might not have had any to give him as he was basically marooned in Russia rather than choosing to be there. Or perhaps on the off chance Russia might not of even asked for it. So saying he is giving Russia sensitive information is an assumption at best.

So now we have reached the crux of this, have you read 1984? Or are you at least aware of it? There is a reason people are sensitive of their personal data. And personal data isn't beneficial and can be potential harmful under government surveillance. Snowden had sensitive information that was harming your fellow Americans. So who is he going to talk to about this? His superiors that are aware of the program? Or a journalist who can enlighten this to the public? The answer is simple. There is no legal channel to expose government illegal activity. Can you not understand that? And unless you are naive to believe Epstein killed himself, your government has the means to kill anyone who has sensitive information. So please stop being obtuse. You are better than that.


Ahh no! You ignored my two articles that I posted that state unequivocally he endangered the lives of U.S. troops. Here, let me provide a third authoritative source, just for you. I took a screen shot from my source that backs up my assertion that Snowden endangered U.S. troops, pay attention here @Godstud and @MistyTiger :

Image

https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/l ... sified.pdf

Basically, what it boils down to is that you don't want to hear the facts and the truth. You just want to believe what you want to believe rather than see the facts. And if you are not an American citizen, you might not care. That's your business. But I am an American citizen and one of those who do care.
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 28 Oct 2020 08:32, edited 1 time in total.
#15130868
Politics_Observer wrote:Ahh no! You ignored my two articles that I posted that state unequivocally he endangered the lives of U.S. troops. Here, let me provide a third authoritative source, just for you. I took a screen shot form my source that backs up my assertion that Snowden endangered U.S. troops


I haven't ignored anything. I just haven't referred to it because it isn't important unless you want to detract from the main issue here. I will now do so, so I can at least help you see sense. Snowden downloaded files onto an encrypted firestick. He didn't have time to sort out what was important and what wasn't. But he did have a conscious to tell the journalist to publish only the surveillance program. He gave his information to an American. He wasn't a spy or an informer. He was a whistleblower. So for any sensitive information on military movement (which didn't occur) to be leaked it could only have happened by the journalist and not Snowden in any case once the transfer happened.

Now we have established that, can you explain why you are defending a government program that is illegal please?
#15130869
@B0ycey

The main issue here is that Snowden endangered U.S. troops. Their lives mean something and are not expendable. Now, I know you or others here on this forum might not care because you are not American citizens or you just only give shit about what inconveniences you and to hell with everybody else even it costs somebody else their life. Plenty of fucking dirt bags like that out there who don't give a shit about anybody else but themselves nor do they value the lives of their fellow countrymen. And that's because they are fucking dirtbags. But that's not me. When it comes to my country's troops, I stand behind them and fight for them. Their lives mean something and they are valuable. I don't give a shit what anybody else thinks. I've already given all the proof you need. You just want to believe what you want to believe and don't want to listen to anybody else.
#15130871
Politics_Observer wrote:@B0ycey

The main issue here is that Snowden endangered U.S. troops. Their lives mean something and are not expendable. Now, I know you or others here on this forum might not care because you are not American citizens or you just only give shit about what inconveniences you and to hell with everybody else even it costs somebody else their life. Plenty of fucking dirt bags like that out there who don't give a shit about anybody else but themselves nor do they value the lives of their fellow countrymen. And that's because they are fucking dirtbags. But that's not me. When it comes to my country's troops, I stand behind them and fight for them. Their lives mean something and they are valuable. I don't give a shit what anybody else thinks.


I am glad you care about your fellow troops and of course I share your passion. But I am trying to tell you Snowden didn't put them in danger because he doesn't have the means to. He gave his firesticks to a journalist and told them to only publish about the surveillance program. Naturally the government will spin this to detract from the main issue. And you have bought it. And how do I know this? Because when everyone is trying to explain why he did this and why there are no legal channels to expose government illegal activity, you are more focused on what the government have said to cover their ass then the illegal activity itself.

But ignoring all that, do you agree on being spied on? And if someone had information on your rights being infringed or illegal government activity, how do you think that is possible to (i) expose the truth and (ii) who is best to do this for you? The government or an outsource?
#15130882
@B0ycey

B0ycey wrote:But I am trying to tell you Snowden didn't put them in danger because he doesn't have the means to.


See that's false. That's what you want to believe. But you're wrong. Dead wrong. I gave you three authoritative sources that demonstrate that Snowden DID endanger U.S. troops. That's an indisputable fact. Nobody who is being rational or logical will dispute that given my three sources. None of those sources I gave you are bullshit sources. Especially that last source from the U.S. House of Representatives. That isn't a "cover our government ass report" like you want to believe it is. The information in that report was true and accurate. It's also an authoritative source of information. You are choosing to ignore it because they don't fit your pre-concieved notions of what happened. Not everybody in the U.S. government is evil. Sensitive information in the wrong hands CAN endanger the lives of other people. I don't see how this is hard for you to understand.

Your assertion that Snowden didn't have the ability to harm anybody would be like saying somebody working for the Witness Protection Program and leaking information on those in the Witness Protection Program to the mafia couldn't hurt anybody. Everybody knows that bullshit and your assertion is no different. Snowden very well could and did endanger the lives of US troops by his information leakage. Here are a few myths that the report dispels such as the notion that Snowden couldn't report anything to anybody:

Image

That's coming from the same report I just listed above. That's not a bullshit propaganda source @B0ycey . That source of information is authoritative, accurate and factual. It's not propaganda.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/l ... sified.pdf

Snowden is a fraud. Much like Trump is. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump pardoned Snowden. Many republicans oppose that move. At least the republicans opposing a Snowden pardon still have a patriotic bone left in their body. I also think democrats wouldn't pardon Snowden either nor would a liberal judge grant leniency.

And think about this for a minute. Snowden is staying in Putin's Russia, Putin, the very man paying bribes to the Taliban to kill U.S. troops in Afghanistan.
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