Celebrations as Chile votes by huge majority to scrap Pinochet-era constitution - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15131007
Oxymoron wrote:Its an example of what happens when you let the street, and citizens write up laws.
What happens is they fail miserably kill each other, and then adults come back to bring order.


That's not how it's gonna go. The Chilean electoral system gives a large advantage to political parties, so chances are that the majority, vast majority in fact, will be affiliated to political parties (formally or informally). That means they will have lawyers involved.

The real fun will begin when they get to discuss rather unnoticed stuff like the election system or when they begin to discuss social and economic rights (I'm betting they will include all sorts of opposing rights here, forcing a balancing act similar to that in the current Constitution but with some additional duties for the State). But I don't see them reaching agreements about the election system and other key parts of any Constitution that regulate the interactions between Government institutions and how Government is to function in general.

The icing on the cake will be when all sorts of street groups will try to force a specific result on the Convention.
#15131012
wat0n wrote:That's not how it's gonna go. The Chilean electoral system gives a large advantage to political parties, so chances are that the majority, vast majority in fact, will be affiliated to political parties (formally or informally). That means they will have lawyers involved.

The real fun will begin when they get to discuss rather unnoticed stuff like the election system or when they begin to discuss social and economic rights (I'm betting they will include all sorts of opposing rights here, forcing a balancing act similar to that in the current Constitution but with some additional duties for the State). But I don't see them reaching agreements about the election system and other key parts of any Constitution that regulate the interactions between Government institutions and how Government is to function in general.

The icing on the cake will be when all sorts of street groups will try to force a specific result on the Convention.


When masses get involved they lower the political IQ of the country, meaning they do irrevocable damage to their own countries.
Such movements almost never succeed even in the short term.
#15131037
“I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.”

Then Secretary of State Henry Kissinger

@Oxymoron

It seems you are echoing the same logic as the supporters of dictatorship.
#15131247
Pants-of-dog wrote:“I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.”

Then Secretary of State Henry Kissinger

@Oxymoron

It seems you are echoing the same logic as the supporters of dictatorship.


Nothing wrong with dictatorship, it worked wonders for Rome when it required such leaders during the Republic.
People cannot be trusted with anything, having said that it is optimal for the government to be in touch with the peoples sentiments ala representative system, but having more then that is asking for trouble.
#15131263
Oxymoron wrote:Nothing wrong with dictatorship, it worked wonders for Rome when it required such leaders during the Republic.
People cannot be trusted with anything, having said that it is optimal for the government to be in touch with the peoples sentiments ala representative system, but having more then that is asking for trouble.


Your favourable opinion of murderous oppression is noted.

But it not an argument for anything.
#15131360
Pants-of-dog wrote:Your favourable opinion of murderous oppression is noted.

But it not an argument for anything.


Nice misrepresenting of what I said. My argument stands the test of time, direct control of governments by the pleb majorities never succeed in developing a stabile state or system. Actually it is the expansion of Pleb rights that ultimately doomed Rome and ended the Republic. Socialist like ideas of the Gracci and the Populares.
#15131374
Pants-of-dog wrote:This really took a long time.

After this, they should get rid of all laws written and enacted during the Pinochet era. Too many subsequent governments have used these laws to oppress dissent. Bachelet included.


*like*
#15131384
@Oxymoron

Your rudeness is also not an argument.

—————————-

The elections for the members of the constitutional convention will be much the same as normal elections, with two significant changes:

1. There will be an attempt at gender parity so that half this body is made of women.

2. There will be special rules in place to make it easier for independent candidates to run. This will hopefully dilute the influence of the Pinochetistas who gave themselves immunity and their minions.
#15131388
Pants-of-dog wrote:The elections for the members of the constitutional convention will be much the same as normal elections, with two significant changes:

1. There will be an attempt at gender parity so that half this body is made of women.

2. There will be special rules in place to make it easier for independent candidates to run. This will hopefully dilute the influence of the Pinochetistas who gave themselves immunity and their minions.


The special rules for independents aren't as significant as you think. And actually politicians even from the far-left are saying independents are not a panacea, that even Pinochet was an independent ( :lol: )
#15131399
Pinochet used anti-terrorist laws against the Mapuche in order to use state repression against legitimate dissent. Later regimes did the same using Pinochet’s laws.

While I doubt they will get everything south of the Biobío, as they should, they should at least get the government to recognise UNDRIP.
#15131423
skinster wrote:Yes, you only support the elites in Latin American countries as well as in the Middle East(Israel), rather than equality for all. I already know.


Not at all. Chilean and Latin American elites are fairly incompetent, while Israel is about a lot more than simply class conflict.

What I can see though is that you support assigning political power based on genetics. And based on your posting history, those ethnic groups you dislike are to get no political power whatsoever, assuming you don't want to simply murder them all.
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