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By Sivad
#15130997
If Democrats win the Senate and the Presidency the liberal establishment will control "the commanding heights of nearly every American elite institution: Congress, the administrative state, Hollywood and the arts, the universities, nonprofits, Silicon Valley and nearly all of the media."
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By maz
#15131002
annatar1914 wrote:I suspect that Biden will concede the election to President Trump on November 3rd having lost both the electoral collage and popular votes, make a statement about working with the President to promote national unity, and get the medical help he needs in his retirement. Then the idiots will begin rioting.

But not like 2016 after that election.


I think that we are going to have a repeat of 2001. I was listening to my local public news station/NPR affiliate, and they were having a quick panel discussion between a conservative and liberal commentators.

The liberal claimed that basically Trump was going to steal the election, while the conservative expected weeks for the election to be called followed by mass rioting.

If you access Twitter while logging in, you will often see a notice waning of the possibility of misinformation being spread on election night. Why does Twitter have this notice up? We didn't need this kind of disclaimer in 2016, and I am pretty sure it wasn't there in 2012 either.

I seem to recall reading about several battleground states, particularly the ones that have governors with severe TDS, already saying that they are going to call their election results when they get around to it.

Whitmer says Michigan won't rush to get results on Election Day, calls it an ‘artificial deadline’

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer on Sunday said her state will not rush to ensure all the results of the 2020 presidential race are counted on Election Day, Nov. 3 -- a date she appeared to imply was artificially set.

The Democratic governor made the comments during an appearance on CBS’ “Face the Nation,” while discussing the election’s expected surge in mail-in votes amid the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.

Asked by host Margaret Brennan how long it will take Michigan to declare the winner of the race, Whitmer would not give a definitive timeline.

“Michigan will be able to announce results, but we are not going to have artificial deadlines set by, you know, people with political agendas,” Whitmer said. “It will be soon after polls close. I’m not going to put a number on it, but we’re going to get it right.”
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By annatar1914
#15131008
maz wrote:I think that we are going to have a repeat of 2001. I was listening to my local public news station/NPR affiliate, and they were having a quick panel discussion between a conservative and liberal commentators.

The liberal claimed that basically Trump was going to steal the election, while the conservative expected weeks for the election to be called followed by mass rioting.

If you access Twitter while logging in, you will often see a notice waning of the possibility of misinformation being spread on election night. Why does Twitter have this notice up? We didn't need this kind of disclaimer in 2016, and I am pretty sure it wasn't there in 2012 either.

I seem to recall reading about several battleground states, particularly the ones that have governors with severe TDS, already saying that they are going to call their election results when they get around to it.

Whitmer says Michigan won't rush to get results on Election Day, calls it an ‘artificial deadline’


The ultimate absolute deadline in December 14th, as per the Supreme Court decision in Gore v. Bush, otherwise it is considered a violation of the 14th Amendment in which the people have the right to know the results of elections they vote in, in a timely matter.

As I said, I suspect that Biden and Harris will throw in the towel long before then.
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By Oxymoron
#15131015
Sivad wrote:If Democrats win the Senate and the Presidency the liberal establishment will control "the commanding heights of nearly every American elite institution: Congress, the administrative state, Hollywood and the arts, the universities, nonprofits, Silicon Valley and nearly all of the media."


A Big if, but you know what they would not hold? Armed citizens, the Police and the military....
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By JohnRawls
#15131024
pugsville wrote:Where is teh eveidence to support this claim?


There is none. He is just being desperate because if Biden gets elected then he will be really tough on Russia and Turkey for being rogue states. Them and China of course.

This might sound like a small thing or irrelevent in your mind but for Russia and Turkey it is era defining moments. Why do you think the Turkish Lira and Russian ruble are decreasing in value so close to 3rd of November?
By Sivad
#15131028
Oxymoron wrote:A Big if, but you know what they would not hold? Armed citizens, the Police and the military....


it's still scary, those shitbags are overtly hostile to human freedom.
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By JohnRawls
#15131031
Sivad wrote:it's still scary, those shitbags are overtly hostile to human freedom.


Liberals are the foundation of your freedom along with liberalism. The twisted American connotation is just wrong.
By Sivad
#15131034
JohnRawls wrote:Liberals are the foundation of your freedom along with liberalism. The twisted American connotation is just wrong.


Yeah, whatever.



I have absolutely zero doubt that given the opportunity, the liberal establishment would repeal the constitution and turn this country into a fucked up carbon copy of China. It's the ultimate goal of the transpartisan liberal elitists, it's exactly where they want to take us and anyone who doesn't get that by now isn't an actual real cogitating person, they're automated persotronics programed to simulate persons.
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By JohnRawls
#15131038
Sivad wrote:Yeah, whatever.



I have absolutely zero doubt that given the opportunity, the liberal establishment would repeal the constitution and turn this country into a fucked up carbon copy of China. It's the ultimate goal of the transpartisan liberal elitists, it's exactly where they want to take us and anyone who doesn't get that by now isn't an actual real cogitating person, they're automated persotronics programed to simulate persons.


Not really. Most of the international elite believe in a democratic liberal rules based global order. The problem with their view is that this globalist democratic rules based global order is inherently technocratic and benefits the highly skilled, educated and mobile people the most. It overlooks the problems of people who are not highly skilled, highly educated or mobile. (Let us exclude companies or super rich out of the argument for now. You are not really interested in them as i understand)

The problem with this is that it creates a system of have it alls and have nots once again just between regular people. On top of ignoring problems of the have nots and putting the expertise and problem solving of have it alls in to power. While there is a heavily meritocratic argument for this, it doesn't mean that the system itself is stable. The stability of many systems is dependant on its ability to self-correct and the current democratic globalist liberal system in your understanding was not interested in self-correcting in this regard. Or self-correction was too slow.

Long story short, the system itself was too effective at what it wanted to do while not being able to self-correct for its mistakes. So although the "Technocrat" is very good and expert at what he does, he simply does not solve the right problems in many cases and doesn't see the problems of the people who are not the have it alls.

The reason Trump got elected is because people got tired of this. For better or worse, Trump showed that the have it nots matter and need to be heard. The question is if the "Technocrats" have learned their lesson or not. Ultimately, Trump is not the solution because he can't deliver the execution that previous "Technocrats" could. President who can't deliver on his promises is a useless president. Technocrats who deliver on wrong promises are also kinda useless.

This is also not some kind of theoretical concept. For example, in Europe, the politicians are often like "Tell us what you want and we will deliver". I heard it quite a lot especially from the German political side. Just shows that although "Technocrats" are pretty confident in their ability to do something are ultimately clueless at what exactly do they need to do to make people happy.
By Sivad
#15131041
JohnRawls wrote:Most of the international elite believe in a democratic liberal rules based global order.


lol. Those fuckers don't believe in anything but power. They don't give a fuck about liberal democracy, the only thing they're interested in is dominating people.
By Istanbuller
#15131044
pugsville wrote:Where is teh eveidence to support this claim?

My job is about being suspicious of everything.

Vote by mail is one of the most interesting topics I have ever heard. I also read some news about small scale vote by mail frauds. But these were in previous US elections. This time it is different. Millions vote by mail.

In democratic countries, secret ballot is the most appropriate way of voting. Other options are not democratic and safe.

Why were Denocratics insist on this way of voting? Why do they refuse delaying the election to a safer date?

JohnRawls wrote:There is none. He is just being desperate because if Biden gets elected then he will be really tough on Russia and Turkey for being rogue states. Them and China of course.

This might sound like a small thing or irrelevent in your mind but for Russia and Turkey it is era defining moments. Why do you think the Turkish Lira and Russian ruble are decreasing in value so close to 3rd of November?

Why would we worry? We already know Biden. Erdoğan knows how to counter Democrats from Obama era experiences.

JohnRawls wrote:Liberals are the foundation of your freedom along with liberalism. The twisted American connotation is just wrong.

You don't know anything about ideologies and American politics. I am sure of it now.

Libertarianism is the foundation of American state. In Europe, we call it classical liberalism, which I see myself as part of it. Once upon a time, former US President Ronald Reagan told that "believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism". With Trump elected, they started to embrace mixed views. But I think religion still keep them altogether.

In America, liberalism term is associated with completely different political positions. They are Keynesian and authoritarian. These days young wing is AOC types.
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By JohnRawls
#15131045
Sivad wrote:lol. Those fuckers don't believe in anything but power. They don't give a fuck about liberal democracy, the only thing they're interested in is dominating people.


I mean from the side of the have nots that is how it looks like indeed. As I said, "Technocratic" elite is literally blind to the problems of the have nots. This is not because they are power hungry but because they do not understand them in a lot of cases or consider them non-problems that can be solved by effort of a person.

For example: Let us say you create this application to track and trace the coronavirus close contacts. Let us say it works perfectly well and it doesn't really cost that much money in the greater scheme of things compared to the alternatives. But you don't explain to people properly that it is fully anonymous and will be of great help to everyone personally and to the economy for example long term. So people do not use this application on the phone because people do not trust it to be anonymous or because not all people have phones or know to use them in the first place. This is an example of how a very good solution to an important problem becomes useless.
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By JohnRawls
#15131047
Istanbuller wrote:My job is about being suspicious of everything.

Vote by mail is one of the most interesting topics I have ever heard. I also read some news about small scale vote by mail frauds. But these were in previous US elections. This time it is different. Millions vote by mail.

In democratic countries, secret ballot is the most appropriate way of voting. Other options are not democratic and safe.

Why were Denocratics insist on this way of voting? Why do they refuse delaying the election to a safer date?


Why would we worry? We already know Biden. Erdoğan knows how to counter Democrats from Obama era experiences.


You don't know anything about ideologies and American politics. I am sure of it now.

Libertarianism is the foundation of American state. In Europe, we call it classical liberalism, which I see myself as part of it. Once upon a time, former US President Ronald Reagan told that "believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism". With Trump elected, they started to embrace mixed views. But I think religion still keep them altogether.

In America, liberalism term is associated with completely different political positions. They are Keynesian and authoritarian. These days young wing is AOC types.


Here you go, educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_liberal_theorists
By Istanbuller
#15131048
JohnRawls wrote:Here you go, educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_liberal_theorists

I already know them. I studied many of their works when i was a university student.

The problem is that Americans, who call themselves liberals, do not believe these men. You just send me a link which contains a list of academicians and philosophers who contributed to liberalism. On the other hand, American liberals have nothing to do with them.
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By JohnRawls
#15131049
Istanbuller wrote:I already know them. I studied many of their works when i was a university student.

The problem is that Americans, who call themselves liberals, do not believe these men. You just send me a link which contains a list of academicians and philosophers who contributed to liberalism. On the other hand, American liberals have nothing to do with them.


The media connotation for the world "LIberalism" is wrong in the US. Liberals in the US though believe those men. You simply are unaware of more modern theory and philosophy. Having said that, average voter who follows some idea or ideology has absolutely no clue about philosophy or theory regarding his own views.

From the same place I gave you the link to:

Since then liberalism has broadened to include a wide range of approaches from Americans Ronald Dworkin, Richard Rorty, John Rawls and Francis Fukuyama as well as the Indian Amartya Sen and the Peruvian Hernando de Soto.
By Istanbuller
#15131051
JohnRawls wrote:The media connotation for the world "LIberalism" is wrong in the US. Liberals in the US though believe those men. You simply are unaware of more modern theory and philosophy. Having said that, average voter who follows some idea or ideology has absolutely no clue about philosophy or theory regarding his own views.

From the same place I gave you the link to:

Your ignorance. The world is not about simple everyday politics. You and @Atlantis think it is but it is really not that. :lol:

Would you dare to explain your understand of "liberal theory" in terms of economics and politics? I would like to hear. :lol:
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By JohnRawls
#15131054
Istanbuller wrote:Your ignorance. The world is not about simple everyday politics. You and @Atlantis think it is but it is really not that. :lol:

Would you dare to explain your understand of "liberal theory" in terms of economics and politics? I would like to hear. :lol:


Depends on what you want to know. Explaining liberal theory on economics or politics is a very vague question that will get a vague answer. Ask specifics! Social justice in Liberalism exists and can be explained by theories and philosophy of John Rawls for example. You will argue that this concept has nothing to do with liberal theory or liberalism.
By Istanbuller
#15131055
JohnRawls wrote:Depends on what you want to know. Explaining liberal theory on economics or politics is a very vague question that will get a vague answer. Ask specifics! Social justice in Liberalism exists and can be explained by theories and philosophy of John Rawls for example. You will argue that this concept has nothing to do with liberal theory or liberalism.

No. It was simple question. Anyone knows liberalism (the real one, not fake one Democrats think of) would answer this question with two words.

I find this in your bio:
Economic Stance Left leaning liberalism. Swedish/European model.

I can assure you liberalism is not this. :lol:

If you think that American state and constitution is based on this, you are more pathetic.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15131056
Istanbuller wrote:No. It was simple question. Anyone knows liberalism (the real one, not fake one Democrats think of) would answer this question with two words.

I find this in your bio:

I can assure you liberalism is not this. :lol:

If you think that American state and constitution is based on this, you are more pathetic.


There is no simple two word answer to liberalism Istanbuller. It is an evolving idea and ideology. If there was a clear two word answer then there would be only one liberal philosopher of some sort and the rest would be irrelevant. Which is clearly not the case.
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