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Jeremiah Squatpump wrote:This is what I’m getting at as you change the subject, or turn on me and try to make it personal.
B0ycey wrote:The problem is you are telling us what you 'think' we believe rather than listening to us when we explain our position. Nobody has said the the EU is going to be a Socialist utopia. The very existence of the single market makes that argument moot on that regard. And any agendas of the EU need concensus anyway. So for any Socialistic policies to occur this would require an acceptance of some Conservative governments from Hungary and Poland which will never happen. But at the same time despite stalemate you don't see any EU leaders expressing leaving the EU regardless of political affiliation do you. Perhaps that is because despite the disagreements there might be a major factor that all leaders agree to. And that is collectivism generates wealth, security and a leading voice.
As for climate change and Covid19, why do you dispute the science? They don't have a political narrative, they look at information to understand patterns. You can argue the usefulness of models and that they are pessimistic towards the worse case scenario. But I certainly can tell that weather events are more extreme and winters are more milder now than yesteryear so that is experience rather than listening to the accepted narrative to understand what is happening FYI. And Covid19 is not a hoax. And masks most definitely do work as it stops the spread of aerosols. The real debate is whether our actions are worth the costs? That is to say is the cure worse than the vaccine? And in my opinion, by analysising stats rather than the accepted narrative and seeing how the focus is today on cases when before it was deaths, I don't think the cure is better at all. In March the debate was Covid vs the Economy. And today it is Covid vs everything in society. We are basically destroying everything to keep hospitals from filling up when to do that all you needed to do was build up capacity and a recruitment drive. Most of the care for Covid victims could be taught very quickly and the more skilled tasks could be done by spreading nurses and doctors from non essential services. I really do hate the idea that we built the Nightingale hospitals in record time and never used them at all.
B0ycey wrote:I'm afraid national security should be everyone's concern. And defence doesn't need to imply attack. In fact unburden our dependence of the US and Europe would be very peaceful indeed. We also wouldn't need NATO. Plus Russia doesn't need to be threat to Europe but for some reason it still is. Not because Russia has done anything to us. But because America wants to militarise former Soviet states. Ukraine wasn't an aggression. It was to protect Crimea from US hands. Anyone with any common sense could see that.
As for geopolitics, what I mean is trade and relationships. Not war and control of oil. One thing Europe can learn from China is how to form trade relationships. But again, this relies on Europe being autonomous not a proxy.
B0ycey wrote:@Jeremiah Squatpump
It’s is very difficult to respond to someone who basically says source material of data is someone else's belief. You have explained your opinion on what the EU is to you and I have explained why that cannot be the case. When you have a single state that can end legislation like what is happening with the Covid bailout support package, it means that nobody or no nation is able to social engineer anything. It is a union of equals and its format and destiny will depend on what everyone agrees with, not what they don't. But even if you were right and the EU wants to become the next "Soviet Union", it doesn't matter for you now. We are out and that is it. What the EU does or doesn't do is not your concern it is the EUs.
Nonetheless I agree with your notion that the Covid responses are driven by panic rather than stats. I have said the same thing on here myself before now although mask wearing doesn't prevent someone catching the virus, it restricts aerosol particals hense the need for us all to wear them or not at all.
And again, global warming. If there is a rapid trend that before took many thousands of years or a solar event or tilting of the global or a volcano explosion to occur and this trend can be explained with levels of CO2 and the pattern of industrialization, is ignorance really worth the damage we are doing for your children and you childrens children future? The evidence is there. The data is there. It isn't like this is a hunch. But it is whether you accept the data or whether you believe deep state put it there to make us all progressives and wear tampons around our necks.
Most of the care for Covid victims could be taught very quickly and the more skilled tasks could be done by spreading nurses and doctors from non essential services. I really do hate the idea that we built the Nightingale hospitals in record time and never used them at all.
Jeremiah Squatpump wrote:We are not out yet
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