[Pants-of-dog]

If someone like Ben Shapiro says trans people have a mental illness then trans people and their leftwing allies feel threatened, so they protest Shapiro and people try to stop him from speaking on campuses, which makes the right feel threatened because they're shutting down free speech, and the cycle just continues. It's the same with the whole controversy with The Odyssey book.

So bigots feel victimised when their bigotry is criticised. Okay.

And this victim narrative fuels their identity politics.

But the criticisms of bigotry are not a threat to society, while the bigotry does create problems.

And that is the point that I am making: identity politics by white people and bigots is the actual threat.

Politics is what happens when people's rights and/or interests come into conflict with each other. It's a zero sum game. Everyone wants to control the narrative. Everyone feels threatened by the other side for one reason or another.

Politics is not a zero sum game. Reducing bigotry helps everyone, and the only loss is the unfair advantages of the oppressor group. And it is illogical.to assume that this one loss balances out all the gains.

@Julian658

Your assertion about France is wrong.

Either support your claim with evidence or stop spreading misinformation.

[Julian658]

Your assertion about France is wrong.

Either support your claim with evidence or stop spreading misinformation.

Unlike many other West European countries, and very much unlike English-speaking immigrant societies such as the United States, Canada or Australia, France has intentionally avoided implementing “race-conscious” policies. There are no public policies in France that target benefits or confer recognition on groups defined as races. For many Frenchmen, the very term race sends a shiver running down their spines, since it tends to recall the atrocities of Nazi Germany.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/race ... in-france/

BTW, Germany is the same way. The avoid classifying people according to race because that is what the NAZIS used to do.

[Pants-of-dog]

Oh I see.

You confused government policy with social practice.

They are not the same thing.

But yes, one of the ways that the French government perpetuates racism and avoids dealing with systemic racism is by ignoring it altogether. This has not worked out for France.

[Julian658]

Oh I see.

You confused government policy with social practice.

They are not the same thing.

But yes, one of the ways that the French government perpetuates racism and avoids dealing with systemic racism is by ignoring it altogether. This has not worked out for France.

POD

The French and the Germans know the consequences of categorizing and classifying people according to racial group. It is considered evil due to the NAZI experience. How about Cuba? Over there everybody is Cuban. It is called cubanidad. They do not classify people by race.

[Pants-of-dog]

POD

The French and the Germans know the consequences of categorizing and classifying people according to racial group. It is considered evil due to the NAZI experience. How about Cuba? Over there everybody is Cuban. It is called cubanidad. They do not classify people by race.

The French are racist too. The fact that they refuse to keep track of this does not change that fact. Do you understand that? Dis you learn something?

And since you have never been to Cuba, I am going to ignore that.

[Drlee]

@Julian658

You really need to bone up on your French government policies.

Did you know that France has robust affirmative action policies and target people from different areas? And though they do not specifically require skin color they are very much targeted that way. It is little more than a quibble.

But you must also know that there is considerable debate about the French system of affirmative action revolving around the program to help the best students and let the others fail. And this debate is occurring along racial and ethnic lines.

You must also realize that affirmative action targets systemic barriers to achievement and not individual ones.

[Julian658]

@Julian658

You really need to bone up on your French government policies.

Did you know that France has robust affirmative action policies and target people from different areas? And though they do not specifically require skin color they are very much targeted that way. It is little more than a quibble.

That is what I have been telling POD. It is possible to help disenfranchised people without resorting to the evils of ID politics. I am glad you learned something today Doc. Yes, France is more liberal than America. When my daughter lived there she could purchase cheap national health insurance as a foreigner for little more than a 100 Euros a month.

But you must also know that there is considerable debate about the French system of affirmative action revolving around the program to help the best students and let the others fail. And this debate is occurring along racial and ethnic lines.

Yes, there are immigrants like POD that want racial group identity and classification of people by skin color. That would be awful. It would create the same problems of tribalism we see here in the USA.

You must also realize that affirmative action targets systemic barriers to achievement and not individual ones.

How do they do AA in France? Who qualifies? Why do they qualify?

[Julian658]

The French are racist too.

I have said at nauseam that there is racism in France. I said that they do not have racial classification of people.
POD: Racism is universal and also practiced by you. Everyone discriminates at some point. You are not perferct and hence you are racist.

And since you have never been to Cuba, I am going to ignore that.

Cuban identity refers to the unique conditions of being considered Cuban. Despite the definition of being Cuban often being tied directly to Cuban nationality, many still consider themselves Cuban despite their loss of official Cuban nationality by birth or having never been born in Cuba at all. Being Cuban has been considered a mere national origin to a broader ethnicity. There are three main concepts that have been used to describe what is Cuban. Cubanidad is the whole general condition of being Cuban, Cubaneo is the condition of being Cuban based on the practice of customs and other cultural expressions considered to be Cuban, and Cubanía is the condition of being Cuban based solely of off the personal want to be considered Cuban.

wiki

You may want to read what it means to be black in Cuba by Professor Gates form Harvard.
https://ctlatinonews.com/henry-louis-ga ... k-in-cuba/

[Pants-of-dog]

@Julian658

Here is something you do not know: the French do not talk about race and racism. This creates a lack of debate. The fact is that the government refuses to keep track of this or let people keep track of it. Some people would call this “censorship” in most other countries.

Here in other countries, we openly talk about race. This can make you feel uncomfortable. It is all right. Sometimes, talking about hard things can be uncomfortable.

I am glad I could teach you this. Let me know if you have any questions, and I can point you in the proper direction to do some research of your own!

I will try to find some English sources for you that explain the Cuban revolution.

[Julian658]

@Julian658

Here is something you do not know: the French do not talk about race and racism. This creates a lack of debate. The fact is that the government refuses to keep track of this or let people keep track of it. Some people would call this “censorship” in most other countries.

Here in other countries, we openly talk about race. This can make you feel uncomfortable. It is all right. Sometimes, talking about hard things can be uncomfortable.

I am glad I could teach you this. Let me know if you have any questions, and I can point you in the proper direction to do some research of your own!

I will try to find some English sources for you that explain the Cuban revolution.

As the Doc said: France is a much more liberal nation than America and can help people without using NAZI classifications of race. There is no need to talk about race since there is only one human race. MLK dreamed about the day when people were not classified by skin color.

You are all wet about Cuba. If Cubans fart you think they have discovered the cure for cancer, Covid, and ALS. Now you are telling me you do not believe in cubanidad. You have massive cognitive dissonance POD. This is because you are tribal POD. You have this "us versus them" mindset that is quite dangerous.

I do not need English source about Cuba as Spanish is my first language POD.

Compañero POD: Aconsejo que visites el psicólogo.

[Pants-of-dog]

As the Doc said: France is a much more liberal nation than America and can help people without using NAZI classifications of race. There is no need to talk about race since there is only one human race. MLK dreamed about the day when people were not classified by skin color.

Okay! Feel free to tell people of colour they should not talk about racism. Telling other people to keep quiet is your idea of a good way of debating race, apparently.

I also think that the debate about race would be a lot easier if BIPOC people could not talk about it.

You are all wet about Cuba. If Cubans fart you think they have discovered the cure for cancer, Covid, and ALS. Now you are telling me you do not believe in cubanidad. You have massive cognitive dissonance POD. This is because you are tribal POD. You have this "us versus them" mindset that is quite dangerous.

I do not need English source about Cuba as Spanish is my first language POD.

Compañero POD: Aconsejo que visites el psicólogo.

You keep insulting me. That is not an argument.

I get that this conversation makes you uncomfortable. That is okay.

You also seem to have made a lot of errors in my position on Cuba. That is also okay. Your misunderstanding is not relevant to a discussion on racism.

Did you think that Cubans are not racist? Why? Do you need me to explain to you how racism works? Cuba had a socialist revolution. That is about economics and giving power to the workers. It is not about race or racism. Now that you know this, does that help you understand?

[Unthinking Majority]

Shapiro has no issues with Trans. However, he does not want Trans people to advertise that a boy can be a girl or a girl a boy because of a social construct. He wants them to acknowledge the role of biology and chromosomes..

[Unthinking Majority]

So bigots feel victimised when their bigotry is criticised. Okay.

And this victim narrative fuels their identity politics.

But the criticisms of bigotry are not a threat to society, while the bigotry does create problems.

And that is the point that I am making: identity politics by white people and bigots is the actual threat.

It's amazing how badly you misinterpreted my post.

You're clearly not interested in any kind of dialogue. You're just interested in pushing your narrative and your interests, which btw is exactly what white nationalists do. As I said, zero-sum game, and you're all in.

[Julian658]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bB0Tpotg_I

[Pants-of-dog]

@Unthinking Majority

Feel free to believe whatever you want about me.

I claimed that the only real threat to society right now from identity politics is the racism of the right. The fact that the right feel threatened does not change the facts.

Even if we decide that deplatforming bigots by protesting their talks is just as morally evil as racism itself (which is a difficult argument to make), the number of bigots who have had significant problems with their career because if this is tiny in comparison to the number of people who have had significant problems with their career due to simple racism.

[Julian658]

@Unthinking Majority

Feel free to believe whatever you want about me.

I claimed that the only real threat to society right now from identity politics is the racism of the right. The fact that the right feel threatened does not change the facts.

Even if we decide that deplatforming bigots by protesting their talks is just as morally evil as racism itself (which is a difficult argument to make), the number of bigots who have had significant problems with their career because if this is tiny in comparison to the number of people who have had significant problems with their career due to simple racism.

ID politics on the left is bad. ID politics on the right also bad. Use common sense POD.
Fighting racism with racism does not work. Two wrongs do not make a right.

BTW, your love for race ID politics was the order of the day in apartheid South Africa. You are playing with fire.

The South African Identity Number of the 1970s and 80s enshrined the Apartheid era ideal of racial registration. It was brought in to effect by the 1950 Population Registration Act which identified four different racial groups: White, Coloured, Bantu (Black) and others. Over the next two decades, the racial classification of both the Coloured and 'other' groups were extended until by the early 80s there was a total of nine different racial groups being identified.
https://www.thoughtco.com/south-african ... rs-4070233

They had up to nine ID racial groups in South Africa.

The left wing Americans came up with this in the USA:


Yes! Believe it or not! America has more racial classifications than the Old South Africa and NAZI Germany.

[Godstud]

Identity politics is being pushed more by the right-wing than by anyone else. They scream it loudly even when it's not present.

[Julian658]

Identity politics is being pushed more by the right-wing than by anyone else. They scream it loudly even when it's not present.

You are correct. And they feel justified because the left also uses identity politics. A very bad idea!

[Godstud]

Just because they scream about it, doesn't mean that the "Left" is using it. Even when nothing is wrong the right is squealing about the left using IP, and it's false in most cases. You tend to use it an awful lot, even when it's not an issue.

The right-wing is ENTITLED. That's the biggest problem. They do, however, enjoy playing the victim, despite this entitlement and while enjoying the benefits of it. Heaven forbid that minorities might be able to enjoy the same benefits!

[Julian658]

Just because they scream about it, doesn't mean that the "Left" is using it. Even when nothing is wrong the right is squealing about the left using IP, and it's false in most cases. You tend to use it an awful lot, even when it's not an issue.

The right-wing is ENTITLED. That's the biggest problem. They do, however, enjoy playing the victim, despite this entitlement and while enjoying the benefits of it. Heaven forbid that minorities might be able to enjoy the same benefits!

I am from Latin America and I have difficulty seeing this. I will acknowledge that there is an advantage in being white because of looks. Otherwise, what are the advantages white people have? Other than the phenotype?