Biden changes Trump law for transgender toilets & sport - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15152338
Igor Antunov wrote:I think the biggest news here is that in the US at least Women's sports are dead, kind of funny.

I'm always amazed by how some people can distill American controversies to their bare essence. Basically, there will be men's basketball and transgender basketball. Women will be relegated to the sidelines, even those with some athletic properties--but whatever, they're probably lesbians anyway. Title IX has been rendered unfit for its intended purpose, and there isn't much reason to believe in the Supreme Court, or any other federal institution for that matter.

Igor Antunov wrote:Donald Trump just eliminated that junk thing. But Biden got it back. It makes me suspicious that he might be also thinking that people are too dumb.

Let's be honest. Politicians are deeply cynical people. They can never pass a trans-gender sports act. So they just made one by gutting women's sports. Women cannot compete against men in sports on average, because men have greater muscle mass and superior aerobic durability. Men becoming women are no threat to men in sports. Women competing against men in sports can rarely hope to beat transgender men. So what we have with that horrible traitorous scumbag Neil Gorsuch and the liberals on the bench is that there will be no sports exclusively for women, and we will be subject to Men's Basketball, and Men with gender dysphoria basketball. Fuck SCOTUS. Fuck the whole thing. Fuck 'em all. Still, they don't understand why the crowds on 1/6/2021 were shouting USA! USA! against them. They think they are the USA. They represent the USA. Yet, they hate the average American.
#15152340
I've used the women's toilet when changing my daughter's nappy or when she needed to pee at the playground. Would this be considered a crime in US? Which crime is worse; me accompanying my daughter in the ladies' or her accompanying me in the men's?
#15152341
@Igor Antunov This happened 2 years ago, and is the exception to the rule.

Injuries occur in MMA all the time, or are you going to deny that injuries occur in a combat sport?

Case in point:
Female MMA fighter dies from injury sustained during bout
She sustained a critical brain injury during a bout in the U.K.
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/female-mm ... d=67125913

So, this isn't so bizarre as you'd like to think it is, and I've proven that your argument is exceptionally weak, and simply based on bigotry, and fear-mongering by trans-phobics such as yourself.

AFAIK wrote:I've used the women's toilet when changing my daughter's nappy or when she needed to pee at the playground. Would this be considered a crime in US? Which crime is worse; me accompanying my daughter in the ladies' or her accompanying me in the men's?
It's not a problem in the real world. In the fantasy puritanical world of @Igor Antunov and @blackjack21, it's a crime!!! :knife:
#15152348
lool
Image

AFAIK wrote:I've used the women's toilet when changing my daughter's nappy or when she needed to pee at the playground. Would this be considered a crime in US? Which crime is worse; me accompanying my daughter in the ladies' or her accompanying me in the men's?


You pretending to be a woman and punching somebody else's daughter in the face repeatedly until her skull cracks. 'Tis the bigger crime.
#15152370
It's based on biology. Come back to me in a few years when every top spot in women's sports is taken up by men with makeup. HEy I don't mind if you don't mind. Win win right. I might sign up for a few sports myself. I'd like a few medals. Not sure how I look in a leotard. PErhaps time to find out.
#15152380
@Igor Antunov It's not simply about biology, but you're simply too dense to understand that. Get an education and come back when you can form a cogent argument not based upon your feelings. :knife:
Last edited by Godstud on 24 Jan 2021 00:23, edited 1 time in total.
#15152391
Godstud wrote:@Igor Antunov It's not simply about biology, but you're simply too dense to understand that. Get an education and come back when can form a cogent argument not based upon your feelings. :knife:


At this point you sound like a dwarf trying to give me a positive pathway for anger management issues stemming from inadequacy. Are we really doing this?

You want me to get another science degree with a major in Biology? Or to fully appreciate your stance should I perhaps spend 3 years on gender studies to brush up on the right kinds of feelings I'm supposed to have on this issue?

No, even a lowly roided up gym rat that can barely read will laugh at you however you try to spin this, and he'd be right.
#15152407
FFS, I probably live in the country with the most transgender people not afraid to show who they are(Thailand) and there simply are no problems like you describe. The bathrooms have remained His and Hers but people go where they like.

People are there to pee or poop, and no one else cares. Women use men's washrooms when the women's ones are busy. No one bats an eye. Thais tend to be Conservative, btw.


In the early 70's I was sent to Germany. Flew into Frankfurt am Main Airport and snagged a train for Nuremberg. When I arrived in the train station in Nuremberg I went to the restroom. The first "wonder" was all of the guys peeing on the wall. No individual urinals. The second was the old lady who was the men's room attendant. Had a little tip plate by the door so we could leave a few pfennigs on the way out. I got a nice greeting from her on the way in, joined the guys at the wall of pee and a nice 'good day' from her on the way out. The restroom was spotless.

So in those days we wrote letters because it was the only way to communicate that did not cost the equivalent of a few dollars a minute. I could not wait to write to my friends about the "lady in the restroom". By the time I left Germany it had become old-hat. Didn't notice it at all but I came to expect really clean restrooms in public places. The same was true with topless sunbathers in the park; a thing I wish we had here in the states because we have boring parks as it is.

This is just another bullshit right wing "the sky is falling" meme. I shows the depth (or lack thereof) of the right wing agenda today. The right has a lot of real stuff to work on. Balanced budget. Privacy. Health care. You name it. But no. We conservatives have our oar stuck in the mud over whether the person below should use the men's room or the ladies room.

Image

I promise you. If "she" used the men's room there would be a much bigger stir than if she used the ladies room. Besides. Where are the women wailing and gnashing their teeth over this? Go to a busy city bar on Saturday night and you will see women will using the men's room in a flash. And it does not bother me at all.
#15152410
For the toilets, the legislation is correct for the reasons already stated by XogGuyx and Drlee.

For sport, the Federal government wants to wash its hands which again is probably the right way forward because as this plays out athletes and sport organisation will have to come up with their own rules if it reaches a point where transgender females are winning against biological women. Something which is totally out of order and cannot just be shouted away.

This will bring this matter to a head and force athletes & organisations to take their own measures without the federal government prescribing anything.
#15152447
Godstud wrote:It's not a problem in the real world. In the fantasy puritanical world of @Igor Antunov and @blackjack21, it's a crime!!! :knife:

A crime is a union of act and intent. If there's no diaper changing station in the men's room (a sexist oversight), then using the women's room isn't a big deal. If you're using the women's room to leer at them and behave in a disorderly manner, it's a crime.

The topic, however, is allowing men to compete in women's sports, because they purport to be transgender. That will leave with with Men's basketball and transgender basketball, etc. while calling it women's, because men generally have more muscle mass and aerobic endurance than women. So for all practical considerations, Title IX has been rendered unfit for its intended purpose.

Godstud wrote:@Igor Antunov Your whole argument is based on FEELINGS.

So are so-called "hate crimes," where the law seeks to divine the emotional component of a criminal's behavior. I think it's kind of interesting when someone like you thinks feelings are bad, but much of the modern zeitgeist is to amplify the importance of feelings.

Igor Antunov wrote:It's based on biology. Come back to me in a few years when every top spot in women's sports is taken up by men with makeup.

That may very well be what they want. Women's sports don't have nearly as many spectators as male sports. I'm not sure why they want to destroy women-only sports, but that's where we're going.

Igor Antunov wrote:I might sign up for a few sports myself. I'd like a few medals.

Where larger unfairness arises is when it comes time for college scholarships--this is where actual women, particularly from poorer backgrounds will face disadvantage.

Godstud wrote:Get an education and come back when can form a cogent argument not based upon your feelings.

This phenomenon really needs a name. I call it the Drlee Effect, but maybe it needs to be something like "Condescending Conundrum" or something.

Anyway, once this gets down to commerce and transgender men claiming minority status and getting scholarships and jobs that would otherwise go to women, it's going to be a persistent issue.
#15152457
This phenomenon really needs a name. I call it the Drlee Effect, but maybe it needs to be something like "Condescending Conundrum" or something.


I'm honored. Really.

Anyway, once this gets down to commerce and transgender men claiming minority status and getting scholarships and jobs that would otherwise go to women, it's going to be a persistent issue.


And when the zombie apocalypse comes I will get a sign and lead the protest. Until then I just keep an eye on my brain.

How is that?
#15152564
Biological men in woman’s sports :eh:

Even if they take hormones they’ve still got years of bone and muscle development that a biological woman would just never have. It’s hard to believe this is even an issue and common sense hasn’t prevailed :hmm:
#15152568
@ness31 Common sense does prevail in the end, but at first, when these things are new, it takes some time to adjust.

There is science to suggest that men who take hormone treatments suffer a great loss of muscle mass, and so these advantages disappear rather quickly.... but not quickly enough.

They are dealing with it, however:

Current treatment period may be too short to remove competitive advantage of transgender athletes
7 December 2020

12 months is period proposed by World Athletics and International Olympics Committee

Transgender women elite athletes may need more than the recommended year of feminising hormone therapy to remove the competitive advantage conferred by testosterone, suggests research published online in the British Journal of Sports Medicine.

Twelve months of treatment to suppress testosterone is the period currently recommended by World Athletics (IAAF) and the International Olympics Committee to ensure a level playing field for all competing athletes.

But the study findings indicate that while hormone treatment was associated with changes in athletic performance, transgender women still retained a competitive advantage 2 years later.

The male hormone testosterone is known to boost muscle strength and endurance. But it's not clear what impact treatment to suppress its production has on the athletic performance of transgender women during transition.

This makes it difficult to develop guidelines for their inclusion in competitive sports, say the researchers. And the guidelines that have been written are based on limited evidence.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 195133.htm

Rule changes need to be made to reflect the science and knowledge that they have, and that goes beyond the feelings, trans-phobia, and fear-mongering done by people like Igor and Blackjack.
#15152569
From the executive order: “Children should be able to learn without worrying about whether they will be denied access to the restroom, the locker room, or school sports,”

What this means is that a trans female (born biologically male) whether child or adult can't legally be denied if they wish to compete against other females in sport, and also have a legal right to go inside a women's locker room and restroom.
#15152575
Drlee wrote:In the early 70's I was sent to Germany. Flew into Frankfurt am Main Airport and snagged a train for Nuremberg. When I arrived in the train station in Nuremberg I went to the restroom. The first "wonder" was all of the guys peeing on the wall. No individual urinals. The second was the old lady who was the men's room attendant. Had a little tip plate by the door so we could leave a few pfennigs on the way out. I got a nice greeting from her on the way in, joined the guys at the wall of pee and a nice 'good day' from her on the way out. The restroom was spotless.

So in those days we wrote letters because it was the only way to communicate that did not cost the equivalent of a few dollars a minute. I could not wait to write to my friends about the "lady in the restroom". By the time I left Germany it had become old-hat. Didn't notice it at all but I came to expect really clean restrooms in public places. The same was true with topless sunbathers in the park; a thing I wish we had here in the states because we have boring parks as it is.

This is just another bullshit right wing "the sky is falling" meme. I shows the depth (or lack thereof) of the right wing agenda today. The right has a lot of real stuff to work on. Balanced budget. Privacy. Health care. You name it. But no. We conservatives have our oar stuck in the mud over whether the person below should use the men's room or the ladies room.

Image

I promise you. If "she" used the men's room there would be a much bigger stir than if she used the ladies room. Besides. Where are the women wailing and gnashing their teeth over this? Go to a busy city bar on Saturday night and you will see women will using the men's room in a flash. And it does not bother me at all.



Is she trans?
#15152580



Just a reminder of what some transexuals actually look like.

Using "best case scenarios, young trans who took hormone treatment and puberty blockers very early so look highly feminine" is misleading.

ness31 wrote:Is she trans?


Yes, started Hormone treatment at a very young age before fully grown, and spent alot of money on surgery. ALOT OF MONEY.

Since she can pass as a woman, she could discretely use the bathroom without making the others feel unsafe. Unfortunately there's also the "it is Ma'am" example and where do Drag Queens and crossdressers fit in?

People who use trans like her as an example of why they "should be allowed in" deliberately ignore what the majority of poorer transexuals actually look like. That one is most likely extremely wealthy and begun transition in Puberty or teenage years before fully grown.
Last edited by colliric on 24 Jan 2021 03:17, edited 1 time in total.
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