[noemon]

In Crimea, Russian state proved its resistance. Russian state just made its mind. They got what they wanted. It was a milestone. Crimea was Russia's red line. You are trying to do the same in your struggling with Turkey. That is how state should behave.

Syria has become a Russian state. Putin reached out Arab nations. They made lots of agreements on economic relations. It helped Russia to diversity its clients.

Crimea and Syria are both success stories for Russia. After all, Russia has a close friend in NATO now. Erdoğan and Putin trust each other more than they trust to other leaders. Russian companies do business in Turkey. They build nuclear plants in Turkey. Turkish and Mideast markets are Russia's way to economic independence.

Neither Turkey nor Russia trust each other; in both Syria and Libya you are enemies killing each other and reducing both of these countries to ashes.

Your hubris and arrogance has replaced US hubris and arrogance.

Both of you are trying to sabotage European efforts to become independent(largely in energy) and that is the extent of your cooperation but both of you are failing and have been trapped in foreign adventures that drain your resources and destroy your standard of living.

As for "Turkey acting like Russia in the Crimea", tell me Istanbuller why is the Greek territory between Athens and Chios yours to claim?
Under what kind of logic?

[Istanbuller]

They trust each other more than they trust America and the rest. Turkey and Russia played each other to oust the US from these countries you mentioned. Russia played a crucial role in helping Turkey to get the US out of its Syrian border.

Russia knows who to trust perferctly. New US administrations's actions will just lead to more cooperation between Russia and Turkey.

[Igor Antunov]

Putin's done. He broke the camel's back.

They might even storm the russian capitol and take selfies.

The level of detachment is delicious.

[noemon]

They trust each other more than they trust America and the rest. Turkey and Russia played each other to oust the US from these countries you mentioned. Russia played a crucial role in helping Turkey to get the US out of its Syrian border.

Russia knows who to trust perferctly. New US administrations's actions will just lead to more cooperation between Russia and Turkey.

The US left on its own, Turkey was begging it not to leave and when they did leave Turkey was begging Europe to come help her in Syria, when Europe refused, Erdogan had a fit of rage and was pushing migrants at the border unsuccessfully.

Friday was much the same, as Turkey demanded help from NATO after a deadly clash in Syria. But this time, Mr. Erdogan not only threatened to let refugees enter Greece. Local officials bought several thousands of them tickets, helped them onto shiny Mercedes-Benz buses and drove them to the border.

Ever since then, Erdogan has been threatening Greece & Europe to get them to help him in Syria against Russia & Assad.

Putin is done, while Erdogan is literally making Muslim human sacrifices to China by handing over Muslim Uighurs just to get some vaccines and perhaps a whisper of support(which has yet to come).

The house of cards is crumbling down.

And why would it not crumble down? You have 2 small-to-medium developing economies with brutal dictators in charge, playing Colonial Empires while their people suffer.

You 're both playing with toys because the west has decided those games are not worth the trouble anymore.
You both have simply filled a vacuous vacuum that more advanced nations have abandoned.

And now you 're reaping the fruits of your aggressive colonialism.

The west does not need to do anything because you are both destroying your own selves by playing colonialism one century too late, instead of fixing your countries, democracies and economies.

[Ganeshas Rat]

Neither Turkey nor Russia trust each other; in both Syria and Libya you are enemies killing each other and reducing both of these countries to ashes.

Yep, both Syria and Libya are Russian responsibility. Not like there were someone else who tried to bring radical islamists to power.

[noemon]

Yep, both Syria and Libya are Russian responsibility. Not like there were someone else who tried to bring radical islamists to power.

Turkey brought radical Islamists to both countries.

[Ganeshas Rat]

Turkey brought radical Islamists to both countries.

You still blame Russia for reducing it to ashes. Probably the best way of opposing evil is to put arms off and let them do everything they want.

[noemon]

In both Syria and Libya, it's Russia vs Turkey with the rest of the world spectating while these countries are reduced to ashes and while you both pretend to be allies.

Isn't that the plain fact of the matter?

One can even add Armenia into the mix.

[Ganeshas Rat]

One can even add Armenia into the mix.

No, I probably shouldn't. I looked around and don't see any ashes.

[noemon]

No, I probably shouldn't. I looked around and don't see any ashes.

The ashes of Artsakh:

[Ganeshas Rat]

The ashes of Artsakh

Artsakh is not in Armenia.

[noemon]

Artsakh is not in Armenia.

The Orthodox Armenians of Artsakh have been wiped out of existence by the Turkish Muslims under the auspices of the Russians.

Well done Russia and Putin.

Russia is also the primary reason Constantinople is Muslim today and the Christians totally wiped out when they were the majority of the City up until a mere 100 years ago.

Prince Phillip of Great Britain was alive when Constantinople was still Christian, and is still holding a grudge for when his family were kicked out of Greece for failing where the Republican government succeeded.
It is not even one single person's lifetime that this happened.

[Ganeshas Rat]

The Orthodox Armenians of Artsakh have been wiped out of existence by the Turkish Muslims under the auspices of the Russians.

As far as I know the most important Armenian shrines are guarded by the Russian army right now.

Russia is also the primary reason Constantinople is Muslim today.

Yep, after all Russia never was in war with Turkey.

[noemon]

As far as I know the most important Armenian shrines are guarded by the Russian army right now.
Yep, after all Russia never was in war with Turkey.

You ve' gone from this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War_(1768%E2%80%931774)

To having Muslims ethnic-cleanse the Orthodox under your watch, they did it in Turkey first and now they are doing it in the former Soviet Republics as well.

[annatar1914]

You ve' gone from this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War_(1768%E2%80%931774)

To having Muslims ethnic-cleanse the Orthodox under your watch, they did it in Turkey first and now they are doing it in the former Soviet Republics as well.

@noemon ;

It's as I have been saying, there is a spiritual decline, very clearly. But with much American and Western hostility in general to the very notion of Orthodoxy and being against a strong, independent and prosperous Russia, some see little choice but to balance that Western power against an alliance with China and Iran and other Anti-Western nations, including possibly Turkey.

Sure, it might be good to have it otherwise, but today with Russia in the minds of some there is a similar problem to that faced by St. Prince Alexander Nevsky in his time, whose realm was caught between the perils of the Teutonic Knights and the Swedes from the West and the threat of the Mongol Golden Horde from the East. Back then Russia could only deal with the weaker but more immediate threat to survival, and then later deal with the stronger but less existential threat.

[noemon]

@noemon ;

It's as I have been saying, there is a spiritual decline, very clearly. But with much American and Western hostility in general to the very notion of Orthodoxy and being against a strong, independent and prosperous Russia, some see little choice but to balance that Western power against an alliance with China and Iran and other Anti-Western nations, including possibly Turkey.

Sure, it might be good to have it otherwise, but today with Russia in the minds of some there is a similar problem to that faced by St. Prince Alexander Nevsky in his time, whose realm was caught between the perils of the Teutonic Knights and the Swedes from the West and the threat of the Mongol Golden Horde from the East. Back then Russia could only deal with the weaker but more immediate threat to survival, and then later deal with the stronger but less existential threat.

Americans/European/westerners have totally withdrawn from both theatres, and as such that excuse does not really fly anymore.

You 're sleeping in the bed Russia/Putin have made and that bed is full of beg bugs and dust mites.

Please, take the responsibility like men, you can't seriously be going 'poor-victim-Russia-bad-west-conspiracy' at this stage.

You simply do not have good leadership and that is because you do not have a good system of governance.

It is only when you recognise the flaw than you can actually do something to fix it.

The west has washed her hands, left the scene and is now watching you drown in your own mistakes.

[Ganeshas Rat]

To having Muslims ethnic-cleanse the Orthodox under your watch, they did it in Turkey first and now they are doing it in the former Soviet Republics as well.

Well, it's kinda... Hm. Armenians aren't orthodox and I myself was shunned by some orthodox fanatics when trying to explain why I think miaphysitism seems to me like a more logical and more Christian system.

But well, anyway, even though it had a catastrophic defeat there's no ethnic cleansing in Armenia right now (mostly because Armenians realized to leave the annexed territories soon; they know who Turks are), there's no moral responsibility of Russia to stop any ethnic cleansing in the former Soviet Republic (they are the former Soviet Republics; besides Russians are the object of ethnic cleansing in the former soviet republics), Russia kept all guarantees to Armenia (which were always about Armenia and not Artsakh; it's impossible they would be without Armenia recognizing Artsakh that they never did for several reasons) and the Armenians themselves blame their prime-minister, who they say actively sabotaged the Armenian army and rejected a lot of relatively moderate propositions before accepting the worst one. So it's just traditional Greek russophobia.

[noemon]

Well, it's kinda... Hm. Armenians aren't orthodox and I myself was shunned by some orthodox fanatics when trying to explain why I think miaphysitism seems to me like a more logical and more Christian system.

But well, anyway, even though it had a catastrophic defeat there's no ethnic cleansing in Armenia right now (mostly because Armenians realized to leave the annexed territories soon; they know who Turks are), there's no moral responsibility of Russia to stop any ethnic cleansing in the former Soviet Republic (they are the former Soviet Republics; besides Russians are the object of ethnic cleansing in the former soviet republics), Russia kept all guarantees to Armenia (which were always about Armenia and not Artsakh; it's impossible they would be without Armenia recognizing Artsakh that they never did for several reasons) and the Armenians themselves blame their prime-minister, who they say actively sabotaged the Armenian army and rejected a lot of relatively moderate propositions before accepting the worst one. So it's just traditional Greek russophobia.

Riiiiiightt......this is what is currently playing Colonial Empire 2.0, hoping to play ze Great Game, beating the west, standing as "Beacon of Orthodoxy", can't even defend a patch of land from Azerbaijan.

Orthodox Christian Armenians ethnic-cleansed from their own homes in the year 2020 under the auspices of Russia.

'Greek Russophobia' telling you things you don't like being said....

I'm just quoting this for future reference.

[annatar1914]

Americans/European/westerners have totally withdrawn from both theatres, and as such that excuse does not really fly anymore.

You 're sleeping in the bed Russia/Putin have made and that bed is full of beg bugs and dust mites.

Please, take the responsibility like men, you can't seriously be going 'poor-victim-Russia-bad-west-conspiracy' at this stage.

You simply do not have good leadership and that is because you do not have a good system of governance.

It is only when you recognise the flaw than you can actually do something to fix it.

The west has washed her hands, left the scene and is now watching you drown in your own mistakes.

@noemon ;

Seriously?

Where is the West ''withdrawing from both theaters''? You no doubt saw where American forces reinforced their troops already in Syria, right? And what of the continued insane bellicosity from the Ukraine, Poland, reports of Georgia being added soon to NATO, etc..?

Sure, I'd love to see an alliance of Orthodox Christian powers against Turkey/Asia, but the masters of the West in Rome and Berlin are quite against that of course.

[noemon]

@noemon ;

Seriously?

Where is the West ''withdrawing from both theaters''? You no doubt saw where American forces reinforced their troops already in Syria, right? And what of the continued insane bellicosity from the Ukraine, Poland, etc..?

Sure, I'd love to see an alliance of Orthodox Christian powers against Turkey/Asia, but the masters of the West in Rome and Berlin are quite against that of course.

Are you serious? Are you blaming the west for Turkish ethnic-cleansing in Armenia under your watch?

Are you blaming the west for Libya where the EU is imposing an arms embargo against Turkey, thus helping your side and openly so?

What about Ukraine? What? There are no western armies in Ukraine, noone is threatening you, you are threatening your Ukrainian Orthodox brothers and you have reached to a point where they hate your guts. If the Ukrainians(along with all the rest Eastern Europeans) prefer the west over you perhaps you should consider why that may be instead of assuming it is only because of "conspiracies against the beacon of Orthodoxy", who can't even hold its own candle.

Are you blaming the west for Syria from where she has withdrawn years now?

Are you totally incapable of accepting responsibility for your own actions?

Where is that 'Russian soul' you spoke of?

This is a total disappointment on so many levels. Disappointment is a form of caring.