Racism definition & use - Page 17 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15152709
Ganeshas Rat wrote:You can get rid of prostitution by making it socially unacceptable, in any way, shape, or form. Only whores say otherwise.
You can get rid of drugs by making it socially unacceptable, in any way, shape, or form. Only cartels say otherwise.
You can get rid of water wetness by making it socially unacceptable, in any way, shape, or form. Only algae say otherwise.

The problem with people like God and other lefty anti-racists is that they compare all current undesirable situations with an Utopia that can never be a reality.
#15152723
الحاجّ مالك الشباز wrote:[L]istening to leaders like Nasser, Ben Bella, and Nkrumah awakened me to the dangers of racism. I realized racism isn’t just a black and white problem. It’s brought bloodbaths to about every nation on earth at one time or another.

Brother, remember the time that white college girl came into the restaurant — the one who wanted to help the [Black] Muslims and the whites get together — and I told her there wasn’t a ghost of a chance and she went away crying? Well, I’ve lived to regret that incident. In many parts of the African continent I saw white students helping black people. Something like this kills a lot of argument. I did many things as a [Black] Muslim that I’m sorry for now. I was a zombie then — like all [Black] Muslims — I was hypnotized, pointed in a certain direction and told to march. Well, I guess a man’s entitled to make a fool of himself if he’s ready to pay the cost. It cost me 12 years.
That was a bad scene, brother. The sickness and madness of those days — I’m glad to be free of them.
#15152724
Pants-of-dog wrote:How?

Also, provide an example.

Sarah Jeong a New York Times reported tweeted very racist stuff:

Jeong’s Twitter feed was filled with a host of messages that could be construed as racist and offensive.

She compared “dumbass f-----g white people” to dogs, said that “old white men” were “lemmings,” opined that white people would “go extinct soon,” and used the hashtag #CancelWhitePeople.

“Are white people genetically predisposed to burn faster in the sun, thus logically being only fit to live underground like groveling goblins,” she wrote in 2014 before adding a paragraph claiming that “whiteness” resulted in being “awful.”


It seems she deleted her tweets, but you can google her name and get more info. In any event the New York Times hired her a s a reporter and did not think it was a big deal.

Harvard university rejects Asian applicants with better academic success than other groups. The reason given by Harvard to deny admission is that they do not have the same personality as other ethnic groups.

The reason that it is harder for Asian Americans to get into Harvard is that their “personal ratings” (a subjective evaluation of personal qualities) are, on average, significantly lower than for white applicants. The federal judge, Allison D. Burroughs, wrote: “the Court therefore concludes that the data demonstrates a statistically significant and negative relationship between Asian American identity and the personal rating assigned by Harvard admissions officers


https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstm ... 1088d163c1

This one is going to the supreme court.

Evergreen College has events where whites are not allowed. They also had a day where no whites were allowed on campus.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... te-people/
https://nypost.com/2017/05/31/college-m ... on-campus/
#15152726
Julian658 wrote:Sarah Jeong a New York Times reported tweeted very racist stuff:

Jeong’s Twitter feed was filled with a host of messages that could be construed as racist and offensive.

She compared “dumbass f-----g white people” to dogs, said that “old white men” were “lemmings,” opined that white people would “go extinct soon,” and used the hashtag #CancelWhitePeople.

“Are white people genetically predisposed to burn faster in the sun, thus logically being only fit to live underground like groveling goblins,” she wrote in 2014 before adding a paragraph claiming that “whiteness” resulted in being “awful.”


It seems she deleted her tweets, but you can google her name and get more info. In any event the New York Times hired her a s a reporter and did not think it was a big deal.


Is this racism?

Is this your example of racism against white people?

Harvard university rejects Asian applicants with better academic success than other groups. The reason given by Harvard to deny admission is that they do not have the same personality as other ethnic groups.

The reason that it is harder for Asian Americans to get into Harvard is that their “personal ratings” (a subjective evaluation of personal qualities) are, on average, significantly lower than for white applicants. The federal judge, Allison D. Burroughs, wrote: “the Court therefore concludes that the data demonstrates a statistically significant and negative relationship between Asian American identity and the personal rating assigned by Harvard admissions officers


https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstm ... 1088d163c1

This one is going to the supreme court.


Racism against Asians is not racism against whites. I am going to ignore this.

Evergreen College has events where whites are not allowed. They also had a day where no whites were allowed on campus.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... te-people/
https://nypost.com/2017/05/31/college-m ... on-campus/


How is this racism?
#15152728
Pants-of-dog wrote:Is this racism?

Is this your example of racism against white people?

She is a a New York Times journalist. She also said "white" people should not breed. Let's try this POD. CHange the word "white" for your favorite term BIPOC. Would that be racism?

Racism against Asians is not racism against whites. I am going to ignore this.


Don't be childish POD.

How is this racism?


The campus has events where whites are not allowed. Why do you think that is not racism? Imagine the campus having events where BIPOC are not allowed to enter. Would that be racism.

Are you trying to implying colored people cannot be racist to whites? :knife: :knife: :knife: :knife:
#15152729
Julian658 wrote:She is a a New York Times journalist. She also said "white" people should not breed. Let's try this POD. CHange the word "white" for your favorite term BIPOC. Would that be racism?


Again, is this your example of racism against whites?

Yes or no?

Because if so, please note that no white people were hurt, lost jobs, or had anything bad happen to them outside of having to read rude comments online.

Don't be childish POD.


You certainly give yourself permission to be make rude comments online.

The campus has events where whites are not allowed. Why do you think that is not racism? Imagine the campus having events where BIPOC are not allowed to enter. Would that be racism.

Are you trying to implying colored people cannot be racist to whites? :knife: :knife: :knife: :knife:


No, the campus does not have events where whites are not allowed. That is a fabrication of right wing media.

Not a single white person was prevented from being on campus. No one was fired. No one was deprived housing or access to education.

Well. there were a few black students arrested by white cops, though the white kid in the same altercation was not arrested.

So even if we look at the absolute worst racism faced by white people these days, we see there were no tangible negative impacts for white people.

Do you see that? Do you understand why white people are not disadvantaged even when white people think there is animosity against white people?
#15152730
Pants-of-dog wrote:Because if so, please note that no white people were hurt, lost jobs, or had anything bad happen to them outside of having to read rude comments online.

So racism is defined by someone being hurt, losing job or having anything bad happening to them? I thought racism is more related to hate against some race.
#15152731
@Ganeshas Rat

Feel free to define racism however you want.

This does not change the facts:

Even if someone hated white people with all their heart and did everything possible to make life hard for them, it would still be very difficult or impossible to deprive white people of jobs, housing, educational opportunities, and other advantages.
#15152733
Pants-of-dog wrote:Feel free to define racism however you want.

I don't define English words, it's not my language, so I use dictionaries instead to check what each word means.

The Oxford Dictionary says:

Racism noun
1 the unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race; violent behaviour towards them
2 the belief that some races of people are better than others

Earlier in the thread I quoted one famous black activist who declares he was a black racist, regrets this and considers both black and white racism a problem.
#15152734
Pants-of-dog wrote:Again, is this your example of racism against whites?

Yes or no?

Because if so, please note that no white people were hurt, lost jobs, or had anything bad happen to them outside of having to read rude comments online.



You certainly give yourself permission to be make rude comments online.



No, the campus does not have events where whites are not allowed. That is a fabrication of right wing media.

Not a single white person was prevented from being on campus. No one was fired. No one was deprived housing or access to education.

Well. there were a few black students arrested by white cops, though the white kid in the same altercation was not arrested.

So even if we look at the absolute worst racism faced by white people these days, we see there were no tangible negative impacts for white people.

Do you see that? Do you understand why white people are not disadvantaged even when white people think there is animosity against white people?


Your definition of racism is based on the concept of power. You also assume that it is OK to say racially insensitive things to whites because they are the standard of reference. That negates the point that the whites that actually have power are a very tiny minority. The overwhelming majority of white people are average Joe Blows that have no power to deny employment to BIPOC. Take for example the deplorables that vote for Trump and live in the boonies in the USA. They have ZERO power to alter the lives of BIPOC.

A question for you: Are racial insults OK among people that have equal power.
#15152735
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Ganeshas Rat

Feel free to define racism however you want.

This does not change the facts:

Even if someone hated white people with all their heart and did everything possible to make life hard for them, it would still be very difficult or impossible to deprive white people of jobs, housing, educational opportunities, and other advantages.


POD: The overwhelming majority of white people do not have that kind of power. You are judging an entire group of people based on the actions of a few.
#15152736
@Ganeshas Rat

That definition is fine.

You seem to be using number two, while I am using number one.

Note that number two is just about feelings while number one is about how these polices and treatments affect people.

———————-

@Julian658

My feelings about bad words are irrelevant. If I cared about that, I would address the rudeness you constantly exhibit on these forums.

Nothing you said contradicts my point that no white people dealt with tangible negative impacts from the racism you cited.
#15152737
Pants-of-dog wrote:You seem to be using number two, while I am using number one.

Both are definitions. You just choose one to prove your position. Would you have another position you would choose another one?

What happens if to exclude one of two: I am a terrorist who prepares a terroristic act. I plan to wear a suicide vest and go to a place black persons crowd in, then activate it. It's not racism because while planning something like this is definitely hatred, it didn't hurt anybody yet. It also never will be racism because I'll die before it hurts anybody.

Though I tend to agree that racism against whites is impossible in the US. There is no whites. Whites are fiction. In the US I'd be discriminated as a Slav, someone else as a Pole or an Irish, there's plenty of organizations who target Jews...
#15152739
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Ganeshas Rat

That definition is fine.

You seem to be using number two, while I am using number one.

Note that number two is just about feelings while number one is about how these polices and treatments affect people.

———————-

@Julian658

My feelings about bad words are irrelevant. If I cared about that, I would address the rudeness you constantly exhibit on these forums.

Nothing you said contradicts my point that no white people dealt with tangible negative impacts from the racism you cited.


Is it OK to use the N word POD? The reaction is just about feelings. What do you think?

I get your viewpoint on the fact that white people are majority and hence there are more white people in position to hire others. In your mind that justifies reverse racism or AA. That is fine, however at a philosophical level two wrongs do not make a right.

You also ignore the human condition in favor of cheap sophistry and sociology points of view that are not based on science. You totally ignore the fact that we evolved in tribes.
#15152740
Ganeshas Rat wrote:Both are definitions. You just choose one to prove your position. Would you have another position you would choose another one?


Yes, both are definitions. And I have no problem conceding that the author of those tweets showed feelings against white people. And you are not refuting that white people did not suffer any tangible negative impacts from these tweets.

So let us look at your definition again:

    Racism noun
    1 the unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race; violent behaviour towards them
    2 the belief that some races of people are better than others

So this woman who write these tweets seems to hold “the belief that some races of people are better than others”, and so she is racist according to number two.

Her tweets did not create “unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race” or “violent behaviour towards them”. So, it is not racism according to number one.

What happens if to exclude one of two: I am a terrorist who prepares a terroristic act. I plan to wear a suicide vest and go to a place black persons crowd in, then activate it. It's not racism because while planning something like this is definitely hatred, it didn't hurt anybody yet. It also never will be racism because I'll die before it hurts anybody.


It would still be racism according to the definition you provided, and it would be consistent with both number one and number two.

Though I tend to agree that racism against whites is impossible in the US. There is no whites. Whites are fiction. In the US I'd be discriminated as a Slav, someone else as a Pole or an Irish, there's plenty of organizations who target Jews...


That is true. People who have white skin and deal with racism do so because they belong to a “foreign” or minority nationality and not because of the colour of their skin.

————————

Julian658 wrote:Is it OK to use the N word POD? The reaction is just about feelings. What do you think?


Your premise that it is just about feelings is incorrect.

Anyway, I will address this after you concede that neither of your examples show white people dealing with any tangible negative impacts.

I get your viewpoint on the fact that white people are majority and hence there are more white people in position to hire others. In your mind that justifies reverse racism or AA. That is fine, however at a philosophical level two wrongs do not make a right.


I never tried to justify AA, and I will never try to justify reverse racism. So this is a strawman.

But you seem to be saying that white people are protected from racist discrimination because of their majority position. I agree. Can you think of any other ways that white people are protected from racist discrimination?

You also ignore the human condition in favor of cheap sophistry and sociology points of view that are not based on science. You totally ignore the fact that we evolved in tribes.


Who wants to bet that julian is about to mention the amygdala?

Since you seem to think that racism is justified by neurochemistry, do you also think that men are justified in raping women because of the neurochemical changes that occur in a man’s brain when a pretty woman walks by?
#15152746
Sorry POD. I have to side with @Julian658 and GR on this one. The remarks by the NYT journalist were racist. Very much so. She should instantly be fired as would have any white journalist making such outrageous posts would have been.

We cannot battle racism by trying to excuse it in some and not in others.

And yes her remarks are harmful. I reject your requirements for something to be seen as racist. I would say that simply making racist remarks is harmful to those who listen to them and most particularly children. She adds to this possibility by adding the credibility of the NYT to her remarks.

@Pants-of-dog posted:

Racism noun
1 the unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race; violent behaviour towards them
2 the belief that some races of people are better than others


I would maintain that publically denigrating someone IS violence. The courts have agreed again and again.

But you posted "racism". Looking at "racist" we include:

a person who believes that some races are better than others, or who acts unfairly to someone because of his or her race
(Definition of racist from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary © Cambridge Unive


@Julian658 posted:

She compared “dumbass f-----g white people” to dogs, said that “old white men” were “lemmings,” opined that white people would “go extinct soon,” and used the hashtag #CancelWhitePeople.

“Are white people genetically predisposed to burn faster in the sun, thus logically being only fit to live underground like groveling goblins,” she wrote in 2014 before adding a paragraph claiming that “whiteness” resulted in being “awful.”


Clearly, unquestionably and despicably racist.

It does us no good to clamor about racism whenever we see it but then give a pass to someone who might be construed to be our ally. I would not want to be seen in the same room as the NYT journalist who posted such garbage. And if NYT did not do something about it I would cancel the subscription I have had for 20 years. It should be noted that Sarah Jeong has apologized for her tweets and deleted them. It would not serve you well to try to defend her.
#15152750
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, both are definitions. And I have no problem conceding that the author of those tweets showed feelings against white people. And you are not refuting that white people did not suffer any tangible negative impacts from these tweets.


Your view is on the assumption that white people are immune to derogatory insults. An assumption is not generally accepted in a formal debate. Furthermore, you assume some sort of immunity to racial slurs because of lighter skin color. That is racist!

Her tweets did not create “unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race” or “violent behaviour towards them”. So, it is not racism according to number one.

POD your very personal definition of racism is based on violent behavior or unfair treatment. Are you leaving racial groups out of the definition?


Anyway, I will address this after you concede that neither of your examples show white people dealing with any tangible negative impacts.


Once again you assume all white people are in a position of power. In addition you imply that white skin is a ticket to success black people do not have.
There are a lot of holes in your new definition of racism. However, you make good points sometimes racism means losing a job.

I never tried to justify AA, and I will never try to justify reverse racism. So this is a strawman.



I congratulate you POD. There si hope for you!

But you seem to be saying that white people are protected from racist discrimination because of their majority
position. I agree. Can you think of any other ways that white people are protected from racist discrimination?


Majority helps. But, as you know at the current rate people of European descent will soon be minority in North America. Do you think POC will oppressed Europeans when they are running things?
#15152752
@Drlee

As I previously mentioned, I have no trouble accepting that this reporter holds racist beliefs.

And then I made the second point that openly showing racist beliefs about white people is pretty much the entire extent of racism towards whites.

Meanwhile, BIPOC people have to deal with a lot more manifestations of racism than simply having people say things.

——————————

Julian658 wrote:Your view is on the assumption that white people are immune to derogatory insults. An assumption is not generally accepted in a formal debate. Furthermore, you assume some sort of immunity to racial slurs because of lighter skin color. That is racist!


No, I am not making any of these assumptions. I completely agree and accept that white people can have their feelings hurt.

And you still seem to have no problem with my claim that white people are not suffering in any way beyond having their feelings hurt.

POD your very personal definition of racism is based on violent behavior or unfair treatment. Are you leaving racial groups out of the definition?


You seem to be confused about my definition of racism. But do not worry about it. We are using the Oxford definition that @Ganeshas Rat provided.

Once again you assume all white people are in a position of power. In addition you imply that white skin is a ticket to success black people do not have.
There are a lot of holes in your new definition of racism. However, you make good points sometimes racism means losing a job.


No. It is a fact that no white people suffered any material problems in your two examples, and this is true even if most white people are not in a position of power. And it is true even if you incorrectly infer that I am saying all white people are successful, and my claim is true even if a majority of white people are not successful.

Majority helps. But, as you know at the current rate people of European descent will soon be minority in North America. Do you think POC will oppressed Europeans when they are running things?


I will discuss these points later.

Can you think of ways that white people are protected from racism that are not about being a demographic majority? Here is a hint: in South Africa under Apartheid, white people were the minority yet still were able to protect themselves from racist discrimination.

Can you guess how?
#15152766
Ganeshas Rat wrote:You can get rid of prostitution by making it socially unacceptable, in any way, shape, or form. Only whores say otherwise.
You can get rid of drugs by making it socially unacceptable, in any way, shape, or form. Only cartels say otherwise.
You can get rid of water wetness by making it socially unacceptable, in any way, shape, or form. Only algae say otherwise.
Childish reply and nothing less than false equivalencies because you cannot come up with a rational argument.

Racism is a behavior based on ignorance. Nothing else you mentioned is. Troll on...

@Julian658 I am not surprised you agreed with such a stupid post.
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