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User avatar
By SpecialOlympian
#15152989
So which is it, Doug? Traitor or bitch? Why did the hero president decide to give up in the face of the most obvious fraud ever? Why did he stop fighting for you?
User avatar
By Drlee
#15152990
Ah, so Al Gore and the rest of the Democrats involved in the decision to ask for recounts in only two Florida counties in 2000 are fascists, then.


No comparison. I don't expect you to know that though.

But Al Gore is not the subject at hand. The Republican challenges are. Do you have anything new to refute the fact that after examining this election like never before, evidence concludes that 2020 is the most honest and tested election in our history?
User avatar
By blackjack21
#15152997
Beren wrote:They get attention because they seem to be the vanguard.

Okay. Whatever dude. You should come to America and fight your enemies, and whatever.

Doug64 wrote:And the Democrats go from one unconstitutional act to another--the latest being considering using the 14th Amendment to prevent Trump from running for office again.

I'm pretty sure the Bill of Attainder isn't going to work, except to exterminate the Republican party.
User avatar
By ingliz
#15153002
Doug64 wrote:the 14th Amendment

What is the problem?

Section 5 of the 14th Amendment stipulates that Congress has enforcement power “by appropriate legislation.”

If the bill passes by a simple majority (218 of 435), the bill moves to the Senate. In the Senate, the bill is assigned to another committee and, if released, debated and voted on. Again, a simple majority (51 of 100) passes the bill.

The Democrats control both Houses.


:)
Last edited by ingliz on 26 Jan 2021 09:03, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By colliric
#15153003
SpecialOlympian wrote:So which is it, Doug? Traitor or bitch? Why did the hero president decide to give up in the face of the most obvious fraud ever? Why did he stop fighting for you?


Stop being a sore winner man.

You won, get over it.

In 4 years time we play this game again.
User avatar
By SpecialOlympian
#15153006
colliric wrote:Stop being a sore winner man.

You won, get over it.

In 4 years time we play this game again.


Make me.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15153008
colliric wrote:Stop being a sore winner man.

You won, get over it.

In 4 years time we play this game again.


To be honest, I see literally nothing wrong with what SO is doing because this is exactly what was done to him for 4 years. His just reverse jewjutsuing cravmegagaying his ideological opponents.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15153009
colliric wrote:Stop being a sore winner man.

You won, get over it.

In 4 years time we play this game again.


What is going to happen in 4 years? You do realize that now that democrats have this country-wide method of stealing elections secretely, that cannot be detected or challenged in courts Republicans will never again win any election right? No midterms, nothing! It is over. Last chance was the coup de'etat and the dear leader failed to lead, culminated in a flaccid show of impotence. It is over, socialism will take over the united states!
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15153010
XogGyux wrote:What is going to happen in 4 years? You do realize that now that democrats have this country-wide method of stealing elections secretely, that cannot be detected or challenged in courts Republicans will never again win any election right? No midterms, nothing! It is over. Last chance was the coup de'etat and the dear leader failed to lead, culminated in a flaccid show of impotence. It is over, socialism will take over the united states!


LOL, yes obviously it is fraud and not something else that prevents Republicans from winning the election. :lol:
User avatar
By Godstud
#15153019
@XogGyux The Democrats perpetrated the perfect crime when they "stole the election". No evidence. :lol: I am sure they can do it again, if such is the case.
#15153043
Doug64 wrote:Image


Yes, well we saw that the media is more discerning about riots than many conservatives seem to be.

And the Democrats go from one unconstitutional act to another--the latest being considering using the 14th Amendment to prevent Trump from running for office again.


There is nothing unconstitutional about considering the possibility. In fact, the text of the amendment seems to say that the government is obligated to stop Trump from running again if he is found guilty of insurrection.

I picked it because it is one of the few cases actually decided on the merits rather than dismissed on arguably (sometimes obviously) correct procedural grounds, and the other major one decided on the merits I know of--the Pennsylvania court's ruling that the state's law doesn't require signature verification for absentee ballots--was clearly, risibly, grasping at whatever straws they could find to invent a justification for their desired ruling.


You mean, the decision that you discussed in this very thread, and where you and I both read the actual law being discussed, and we agreed that the laws written by the Pennsylvania legislature do not require signatures for verification.

In the US, it is the state legislatures that decide how each state conducts federal elections, so your support of judicial activism in this case would be unconstitutional.

You think the one might help explain the other? ;)


Trump loves undocumented immigrants. He hires them all the time, pays them nothing, probably raped a few, and can always use them as a red herring for his base.

Considering that the old "wall" could only stop vehicles and the new wall is designed to stop people, it's not hard to argue that it is just that--new wall.


The new wall does not actually stop people, so....

Only by those desperately pretending that they represent Conservatives so they can avoid engaging real Conservatives on the issues.

Not by those willing to be honest at least, with themselves as much as others. Considering all those on the Left eager to label everyone that voted for Trump as racist White Nationalists (even all the minority Trump voters), there's a lot of them that aren't so willing.


Strawman and victim narrative.

No one is claiming that all Trump supporters are white nationalists.

It would be more correct to say that all white nationalists voted for Trump, that Trump used racism to energise parts of his base, and anyone who voted for Trump supported someone who is openly racist.
User avatar
By Beren
#15153059
blackjack21 wrote:You should come to America and fight your enemies

Thanks for the invitation, but America's actually everywhere.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15153075
The only thing that could end Trumpism is economic progress for all Americans. Including the looney fringe Trumpsters. Issue is, the sorts of thing Trumpists are calling for isn't going to bring that about. Cozy nice paying working class jobs aren't coming back from China, in fact, those jobs never went to China, they simply disappeared. Democrats don't look too interested in dealing with this in a meaningful way either. They are more concerned with creating the facade of a multicultural nation, hence the obsession with identify politics. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against diversity, but the assumption this is all that's needed to make America prosperous feels like it's missing something... probably money.

Thus, America will go down the tubes. In the meantime, it's also very much possible for a Trump 2.0 to appear, become successful, and turn the US into a developing country that is riff with cronyism (finish the job that Trump started). The US will look more like Russia.

In short, Trumpsters don't know what they want and are unwittingly trying to push the country towards a crony capitalist nations. Too many non-Trumpsters want the status quo which simply isn't going to work for the longer term. This will grow the Trumpster types and accelerate the decline further.


USA! USA! USA!
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15153084
A hundred years from now, the Americans will be trying to cross the desert into Mexico to escape a life of grinding poverty, and the Mexicans will be voting for an orange-faced caudillo to build a wall to stop them. "!And the Gringos will pay for it!" :excited:
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15153098
@Doug64 wrote:

You think the one might help explain the other? ;)


I think the solution Doug--is to have Mexicans and Central American people get some real wages for once, and for the low and bad wages not to continue with pittances of $1 or $2 dollars an hour and enormous income inequalities happening for centuries that never move the societies forward. Along with giving the kids decent educations, clean drinking water and safe neighborhoods and for the community to be able to have schools, and hospitals, playgrounds and recreation centers and for them to have solar powered energy and so on. That way? They are not motivated to move to the USA and become burdens to the countries that are neighbors to the USA. Who also have enormous wealth inequality and such incredibly uninformed people, who think throwing out people (you are one of the racist ones too don't deny the obvious Doug), who mainly work jobs the American underclass refuses to do anymore because it doesn't pay enough and it is dangerous or unsafe. I think that is the solution. Not thinking kicking people out of the USA because a bunch of dumb racists feel like a dog marking their territories when the majority of the Mexicans and the Central Americans are of Indigenous origins and have deeper roots in the Americas than the European origin ones who think they own the entire world and interfered with the School of the Americas torture schools and created chaos and mayhem and now don't want to deal with the turmoil and poverty caused by violence and political fights for decades in Central America.

The USA sucks when it comes to being responsible. If you want to avoid dealing with caravans and poverty wages that motivate mass exodus type of situations in Honduras, El Salvador, etc. you need to make life better for those nations. Period. I am not responsible is the lame excuses the USA comes up with when it comes to Latin American poverty and low wages. But United Fruit makes a killing, Banks make a killing, Wall Street commodities brokers make a killing, jewelers make a killing from it all....and they want zero responsibility.

Stop scapegoating the people who are dealing with the fallout of all that stupid, nasty and horrible trickle down to nothing neoliberalism we all have been living under for decades now...and which has only resulted in bad results.

It is easier to blame some bad 'hombres' and fall into dumb ass stereotypes than face up to failed government and corporate policies all this time. But that is what racists do....looking for vulnerable people to blame.

I find it all pathetic and inexcusable.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15153100
ingliz wrote:What is the problem?

Section 5 of the 14th Amendment stipulates that Congress has enforcement power “by appropriate legislation.”

If the bill passes by a simple majority (218 of 435), the bill moves to the Senate. In the Senate, the bill is assigned to another committee and, if released, debated and voted on. Again, a simple majority (51 of 100) passes the bill.

The Democrats control both Houses.


:)


The Democrats control the senate mainly due to Stacy Abrahms getting a bunch of Georgia non voting Black women and youth involved in Georgia state politics. It took her years.

I think the Republicans are hoping that somehow they can retain power by denying votes. It is not working. The thing they need to do is grow their party appealing to dumb ass Latinos and Black people who love capitalism and crap that doesn't work for them and dupe them all into believing that a bunch of capitalist racists somehow are willing to give up their power in a fascist nation with people manipulated by the twin lying establishment parties. IF they don't? They won't grow the Republican party.

For me the Right is not into sharing power with minorities. Most of the Trump rallies got some token Latinos and token Blacks but they shine for their almost snow white compositions.

Grow out of the dumbness of capitalism. I don't care about identity politics. If you study world international politics there are Right wing freaks in all the human races on planet Earth. Same as in Latin America and Asia, etc. So one should concentrate on what is addressing the human needs of most nations. Not on what race the target group is. But no, the USA is obsessed with color coded shit that is all code for having a bunch of sellouts not do anything to cope with low flat wages, no real opportunities and the burdens of debt.

Most crisis that is economic is about inflation, debts and printing more money. All of those things only create less power and consumer acquisition for the lower classes all over the world. Regardless of color or race or national origin. But no....the dummies keep emphasizing the wrong thing hoping to deflect attention from the ones creating all the problems in the first place.
User avatar
By Beren
#15153105
However, @blackjack21, would you tell me if what frustrates you actually? Is it that Biden didn't say what you said he'd said or is it that you got caught deliberately lying (by a non-American) or is it that you fell for that bullshit, shared it in good faith and got proven to be wrong (by a non-American)?
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15153119
blackjack21 wrote:This was mostly Obama and Hillary Clinton directed activity in Ukraine. Are you saying Obama is a right winger? Not that I'm trying to disagree, I just wonder where you stand on his foreign policy.

Look BJ, the USA is so far to the right that some moderate liberal or neoliberal pro capitalism president is RADICAL and a hidden Communist. The Right is unable to identify any real Left political people in the USA anymore. They are so far gone with right wing stupidity they fail to recognize a neoliberal in the flesh. Obama is a neoliberal. But people fail to see it that way. Worried about his birth certificate and lies that were about stoking fears of people who are not some European Anglo man with 200 million dollars in the bank running for some corporate agenda are not to be trusted....it is ridiculous dumbness in political science Relampaguito. Hillary is a classic neoliberal and her husband rode a wave of conservative crap from the 80s. There is nothing remotely socialist or communist about any of them. But somehow you got your DUMB ones like Sydney whatever bringing up Hugo Chavez and so on...dead bearded Cubans who they never were able to remove from power and it is haunting their dumb subconscious shit....it fails to identify where the corruption and lies and betrayal is coming from. The private corporations control both parties completely. They don't respond to average Yankee Doodle patriots and their perceptions of superiority anymore. The people making money dominate the world and don't give a shit about being strict far right patriots. Because? It doesn't benefit them at all to think that way in their pockets. That is capitalism BJ. It respects profits and expanding control and markets and margins....it relies on control, violence and domination by force of loans, debt and intimidation....it doesn't care about any notions of nation state limited stuff. Capitalism is a mass system. It should be regulated, and limited and eventually transformed into a democratic form of shared power for all workers. But currently it is not. Instead of coping with the culprit of all the issues, the fascists come in again and want to throw the blame on some people scrambling for survival. I am not surprised.



Qanon, KKK, white supremacist types are a small fringe. They only get attention, because the neoliberals/neoconservatives want to paint the entirety of the 74M who voted for Trump with that broad brush. The problem for them is that the Trump voters do not see the neoconservative/neoliberal types as having any moral authority whatsoever.

The Trump voters are incredibly short sighted. Trump is not a working class man's hero or working class woman's hero either. The neoconservatives/neoliberals don't have moral authority but they are the direct result of CAPITALIST values. Accept that the capitalist shit values are the cause of the lack of morality BJ. That is where you and I will always part ways always. For me? The core of capitalism is about property becoming a bone of contention and not having all the wealth divided into the largest working group of human beings. But since you believe in class systems and you refuse flatly to accept that variation is the core of life? You fail to see that hiarchies are artificial constructs created to serve socioeconomic systems. The system becomes dysfunctional you have to scrap that model and get another functional model in its place. Slavery worked as an economic system for centuries. Till it was no longer viable. Capitalism will reach its expiration date and the new organization of human labor is going to have to be far more efficient and even handed to make things work. It is obvious to me. That is human history. Every living thing varies BJ. Bananas, leaves, nuts, fruit, vegetables and animals. Why? Mono agriculture can be vulnerable to a plague. Like the potato famine. The solution within a natural framework is having a large variation of DNA of that living organism. Humans are similar. Look at the evidence for why people vary? Why dark skin in Africa? Why brown skin in the Mayan world? Why light skin in Norway? It has a lot to do with a changing landscape or geography..it is about that and not about some rich group of elite group being incredibly superior BJ. Have you seen an episode of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills? None of those women are genius women with superior brains. They all have money. It doesn't make them the creme of the crop of intelligence. It has to do with who has access to the profit system, banks, investments and knows how to make things happen for themselves via either inheritance and or working formulas that favor certain connected groups. It has little to do with true genius. The man with incredible intelligence and many others like him are often not wealthy. Get a clue about the falseness of hiarchies...but NO. You don't Relampaguito.


That's why I didn't want Biden in. You were afraid of Trump starting a war. Biden is reviewing US withdrawal of US troops from the Middle East. That signals he may be interested in reversing Trump's policies.

The Defense Industry has its claws in both parties BJ. Trump is a narcissistic sociopath and a conman. He is not a hero. For you he is what? He is an asshole.If you want to follow that asshole no one will stop you BJ. I find anyone who is that fucking cynical as you display in this forum should rethink the reason why one is involved in political debates. For what? To destroy human societies just to be a nationalist and not understand the reasons why these neoliberals/neoconservatives were able to seize power all this time? Get a clue BJ. Humanity is big. The USA is only about 5% of the world population and dropping the higher the COVID counts go.....and the replacement Americans are not from Europe. Get a clue.


The US will never be irrelevant based on geography and energy production alone.

It will become irrelevant if it fails to invest in science and in educating people on basic realities and not on alternative facts, fake news and bullshit that is about false narratives made to keep -people blaming Mexicans, and being paranoid about Black lives Matter and some liberals screaming about white guilt. Life is more interesting than that BJ.


They already do. They're called retirees. US social security checks go farther in Mexico.


People in the USA won't be living the lifestyles of the rich and famous in the USA on SS checks. That is for sure! All those retirees being ripped off in the stock market with the IRA investments going down the tubes to feed some Wall Street banksters....food bank lines in cars and over priced real estate. People should consider Mexico, Ecuador and many other places to retire in....but knowing how DUMB the ones who think the world revolves around 5% of the human population only think? They will be down shit's creek without a paddle and looking to kill Mexicans who keep their old gray asses in play because the grandkids are not having any kids anymore. They don't want the responsibilities of supporting some person for 40 years and living in their basement waiting to pay off a damn student loan. ;) :D
User avatar
By blackjack21
#15153135
Tainari88 wrote:Obama is a neoliberal. But people fail to see it that way.

The neoconservatives/neoliberals describe themselves as Trotskyists who have been mugged by reality. They are using capitalism toward an end, but they aren't particularly interested in capitalism itself.

Tainari88 wrote:There is nothing remotely socialist or communist about any of them.

They tend to embrace critical theory.

Tainari88 wrote:The Trump voters are incredibly short sighted.

When the other choices are Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or Hillary Clinton, they don't have any other choice.

Tainari88 wrote:Trump is not a working class man's hero or working class woman's hero either.

No. However, he's the only one that bothered trying to appeal to the working class. That's why people were chanting, "We love you!" at his rallies, when Biden couldn't even fill an auditorium.

Tainari88 wrote:The neoconservatives/neoliberals don't have moral authority but they are the direct result of CAPITALIST values.

Again, they describe themselves at Trotskyists mugged by reality.

Tainari88 wrote:But since you believe in class systems and you refuse flatly to accept that variation is the core of life?

I believe they exist. That doesn't mean I endorse an arbitrary caste system. It means I recognize that they exist, even when you strip away institutions that would enforce them. It means I think they are innate in many respects, and not merely social constructs or political constructs as such.

Tainari88 wrote:You fail to see that hiarchies are artificial constructs created to serve socioeconomic systems.

I don't fail to see. I don't agree. Chickens have pecking orders.

The basic concept behind the establishment of the pecking order among, for example, chickens, is that it is necessary to determine who is the 'top chicken,' the 'bottom chicken' and where all the rest fit in between. The establishment of the dominance hierarchy may reduce the incidence of conflict and thus reduce the expenditure of energy required for aggressive competition. The dominance level determines which individual gets preferential access to resources such as food and mates.

In the wild, pecking order status is inherited along a strict basis, so that the first daughter of the most dominant chicken will inherit that most dominant status, the second most dominant will give second most dominant status to her daughter, etc. unless the most dominant chicken has a second daughter, in which case that chicken will become the second most dominant.[citation needed] Studies of the genetic basis of pecking orders in chickens have indicated that it may largely be determined by the coloration patterns.


Tainari88 wrote:Slavery worked as an economic system for centuries. Till it was no longer viable.

Yea, because capitalism made slavery inviable.
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