Cuba has proven that capitalism and technology are failures - Page 112 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15152962
Julian658 wrote:I suspect El Che was much more authentic than Fidel.

@Julian658
As far as I am concerned that is an exercise in futility. I am willing to offer a blanket "accept your point" that Fidel was genuine when he started and over the years morphed into what he did eventually become. It would be far more cynical than what I am willing to be, to acertain that he had a plan to become the shit dictator that he eventually did. For me, Che is a more enigmatic figure.
The problem with using these figures for symbology. For some, che represents comunism, for others it represents a rebel, yet others see a champion against the injustices of corrupt imperialistic systems, many others see a young terrorist, a violent radical, etc, etc, etc.
#15152972
XogGyux wrote:@Julian658
As far as I am concerned that is an exercise in futility. I am willing to offer a blanket "accept your point" that Fidel was genuine when he started and over the years morphed into what he did eventually become. It would be far more cynical than what I am willing to be, to acertain that he had a plan to become the shit dictator that he eventually did. For me, Che is a more enigmatic figure.
The problem with using these figures for symbology. For some, che represents comunism, for others it represents a rebel, yet others see a champion against the injustices of corrupt imperialistic systems, many others see a young terrorist, a violent radical, etc, etc, etc.


I agree with you!
I actually read the Che biography
Image

It is over 750 pages long. I believe he was likely a revolutionary, but he did some things that were ruthless and evil. Che fell for the old theme : "Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience". Adam Smith. That is why i worry about the extreme left, they have no barriers.

It is possible he was an egomaniac and that is why he went to Africa and Bolivia. He thought he could change the world. That photo used to be the most iconic in the world.

May I ask: As a boy going to elementary school? How do they teach Che and Fidel? I assume is almost like religion in a Catholic school.
#15152976
Julian658 wrote:
May I ask: As a boy going to elementary school? How do they teach Che and Fidel? I assume is almost like religion in a Catholic school.

If you are expecting a bunch of teaching making the students write "Fidel is the greatest hero of all times" 100x per day.. you would be disappointed (or happy?).
We are just talking about painting history in a more 1 sided way than truly is, that's all.
#15152983
XogGyux wrote:If you are expecting a bunch of teaching making the students write "Fidel is the greatest hero of all times" 100x per day.. you would be disappointed (or happy?).
We are just talking about painting history in a more 1 sided way than truly is, that's all.

Neither, I am just curious. I have no agenda.

BTW, when I make an argument in the forum is not because I want to win. If you or anyone else comes up with a great thought I always accept it.
#15153033
Two quotes to ponder:

XogGyux wrote:If you are expecting a bunch of teaching making the students write "Fidel is the greatest hero of all times" 100x per day.. you would be disappointed (or happy?).


Julian658 wrote:BTW, when I make an argument in the forum is not because I want to win. If you or anyone else comes up with a great thought I always accept it.


Image

The 2 quotes above demonstrate the superiority of the Cuban education and upbringing - the education that normal Cubans get from both school and from their COMMUNITY - "community" being something which the majority of North Americans don't even have any more.

The Cuban men cutting straw with machetes, the women driving horses, the fishermen, the teenagers chasing birds in Vedado... all of them can discuss politics and social phenomena in a more educated ways than either of you. And you are ON A POLITICS FORUM, and you live in one of the richest countries in history. So a lot of money gets wasted in rich countries, and not much is devoted to real education.

But I don't blame you guys for this. Most Americans (and imitation Americans) are raised by television, and the result is:

The Saker wrote:Sadly, most Americans are not educated by their parents, their religious leaders, their communities, or their schools. Most Americans get most of their education from watching TV.

Since all the US TV channels offer almost the exact same mix of vulgar entertainment, propaganda and commercials, this “education” resulted in a huge amount of massively dysfunctional families and communities.

This addiction to a flickering screen (be it the Idiot Tube or You Tube – same difference) gives them a very short attention span and a limited ability to process large amounts of written information, which is what is needed to be able to analyze a situation]

Now, TV is obviously available in Cuba, as is most other modern distraction. But in Cuba - unlike in most North American suburbs - there are lots of healthy alternatives to watching a screen to learn.

Learning from TV... leads to an inability to process complex information. Or to tell a story. It leads to emotionally-charged but inarticulate ideation like the two posts above.

Cuba should NEVER imitate this.
#15153156
QatzelOk wrote:Two quotes to ponder:





Image

The 2 quotes above demonstrate the superiority of the Cuban education and upbringing - the education that normal Cubans get from both school and from their COMMUNITY - "community" being something which the majority of North Americans don't even have any more.

The Cuban men cutting straw with machetes, the women driving horses, the fishermen, the teenagers chasing birds in Vedado... all of them can discuss politics and social phenomena in a more educated ways than either of you. And you are ON A POLITICS FORUM, and you live in one of the richest countries in history. So a lot of money gets wasted in rich countries, and not much is devoted to real education.

But I don't blame you guys for this. Most Americans (and imitation Americans) are raised by television, and the result is:


Now, TV is obviously available in Cuba, as is most other modern distraction. But in Cuba - unlike in most North American suburbs - there are lots of healthy alternatives to watching a screen to learn.

Learning from TV... leads to an inability to process complex information. Or to tell a story. It leads to emotionally-charged but inarticulate ideation like the two posts above.

Cuba should NEVER imitate this.

Delutional.
8)
#15153162
QatzelOk wrote:Two quotes to ponder:





Image

The 2 quotes above demonstrate the superiority of the Cuban education and upbringing - the education that normal Cubans get from both school and from their COMMUNITY - "community" being something which the majority of North Americans don't even have any more.

The Cuban men cutting straw with machetes, the women driving horses, the fishermen, the teenagers chasing birds in Vedado... all of them can discuss politics and social phenomena in a more educated ways than either of you. And you are ON A POLITICS FORUM, and you live in one of the richest countries in history. So a lot of money gets wasted in rich countries, and not much is devoted to real education.

But I don't blame you guys for this. Most Americans (and imitation Americans) are raised by television, and the result is:


Now, TV is obviously available in Cuba, as is most other modern distraction. But in Cuba - unlike in most North American suburbs - there are lots of healthy alternatives to watching a screen to learn.

Learning from TV... leads to an inability to process complex information. Or to tell a story. It leads to emotionally-charged but inarticulate ideation like the two posts above.

Cuba should NEVER imitate this.



When you talk to people that were born and raised in Cuba you get a better perspective. All you are doing is recycling propaganda that is not based on reality. In this context you are no better than a Trumper.

The question that begs an answer is why you cling to this belief. Is your desire to maintain your position so strong that it does not allow you to accept reality?
#15153167
Julian658 wrote:When you talk to people that were born and raised in Cuba you get a better perspective.

Yes, and since XogGyux is originally from his mother's uterus, I guess he's an expert on gynecology as well. :lol:
#15153410
In an article about the importance of societal solidarity, Manuel Garcia Jr. looks at the fracturing of other rich states in Modern times, and how this lead to their collapse, revolution, or colonization.

Manuel García, Jr. wrote:While the socialism of the Cuban Revolution is incredibly admirable, and the type of thing needed everywhere (especially in the U.S.A.), it is nevertheless unfortunate that a part of that Cuban socialist solidarity had to be compelled in order to assure the survival of the revolution and the independence of the country from the Colossus of the North.




And about that collossus of the North, he wrote:Q: “What happens to societies when people only care about themselves?…”

A: They become very cruel and disunited, and nationalistically weak.


So he suggests that Cuba HAD TO force a bit of solidarity on its own people, otherwise, they would have been unknowingly sucked back into the USA colonial system. We all know what a wonderful job the USA colonial system has done in Haiti, Honduras, etc. So he is "explaining" the impossibility of honesty or peace... when you live in a capitalist hegemon's "backyard."
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