The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 81 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15153177
I trust science more than I trust US defence and foreign policy advisors.

We know that Covid was in Europe in December of 2019, at the same time that the first cases were being officially diagnosed in Wuhan.

Beyond that, we are making guesses based on the little information that we do have, and since most of that info is about Wuhan, most our guesses will be about Wuhan.

Also, the evidence of similar viruses in bat caves near Wuhan, and the fact that many zoonotic diseases either come from or are spread by bats, draws us in that direction.

But this focus on Wuhan could also be an effect of China’s medical surveillance expertise and funding for infectious disease studies. We may just be looking at Wuhan because that is where people actually study this.

So, calling it the Wuhan virus is misleading unless you are trying to applaud the success and perception of Wuhan infectious disease specialists and it is done out of respect.
#15153191
Studying the origin of anything is a part of what science should always be doing. Brushing it off as "oh whatever" just isn't very scientific, as we would be leaving knowledge on the table. The assumption that there is nothing useful to be gained by studying the origin is not scientific either. There are always surprises, and lessons to be learned. The point of science is to expand our body of knowledge.

Not studying the origins of this virus because of the politicization that has happened is not a good reason not to study the origins. This is like suggesting we shouldn't study climate change because it has been politicized.
#15153194
Yeah, we should find Patient Zero.

Finding out how this person initially contracted the disease will help us understand how we catch diseases from animals, if (for example) the cause is really zoonotic.
#15153262
@Doug64 Maybe they're looking in the wrong place for the start of the pandemic.

Study Suggests Covid-19 Was In The U.S. Weeks Earlier Than Thought, Before First Public Cases In China
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart ... 37ea14bf8c


Do you think you'll change the name back to Covid-19(from the stupid name you've given it) when you discover it wasn't from China? I doubt it.
#15153285
Meanwhile another 10,000 people have died of the virus and the administration predicts at least another 90K. But y'all go ahead and kvetch about labs and bats and what all. While you are doing that, if you will excuse me, I will do the uninteresting work of trying to keep people from getting the disease and getting them to treatment if they do.

On Edit:

I wish to point out something all medical and shit....The time for a postmortem is after the battle to save the patient's life is over.

Trump supporters are not trying to blame a Chinese lab because they want to prevent anything. They showed early on that they did not care one whit about prevention. Most republicans still don't because it costs money. Republicans like Doug64 are simply looking for someone to blame for the deaths.

Here is the real deal. If China had sent the virus over here on carnivorous, neck-biting carrier pigeons they would have some 'splaining to do. But that does not forgive the unforgivable and criminal negligence exhibited by Trump and the Republican Party. They are responsible for the vast majority of the deaths. Not China. Or Bats. Or labs that infected bats. Or the guy who got bats wrong. Or patient zero. Or......
#15153286
@Drlee

My wife and mother actually made a whole bunch of baked goods and delivered them to two doctor's offices and the Veteran's Administration Outreach Clinic as a way to thank doctors and healthcare workers for the work they do in saving lives during this pandemic. Unfortunately, despite doing our best with mask wearing and social distancing, my mother seems to have caught COVID. She is still recovering. I think my wife and I caught COVID too but we got over it much easier than my mother because we are younger. I think my mother caught it first and spread it to my wife and I given my wife and I became sick after my mother became sick.

We got tested to see if we test positive for COVID but I am confident, even if both my wife and I's test result comes back negative, we had actually caught COVID and already recovered from it. I basically slept in for several days to allow my body to fight it believing it was simply a cold, which now I believe was actually COVID and not a cold. But I feel outstanding right now and just fine though. I'll see what my wife and I's test results are soon. If they come back negative, my wife and I's quarantine ends this Friday on the 29th given we had been around my mother who tested positive for COVID.
#15153298
Wow.

I am glad you are better. I will keep your mother in my prayers. Treatments are really much better these days. I am sure she will be fine.

It is a very frightening disease for sure. Try to get the vaccine as soon as you can. (If you come back positive then it will be awhile before you will get the vaccine.)

IT was really good of you to remember the health care workers. Many are going through real hell right now. I see a glimmer of hope. Today there was a piece I just glanced at saying that as many as 1/3 of Americans may have already been infected. If this is the case then asymptomatic cases may be more than we expected.

Stay safe and away from others until your tests come back.
#15153372
@Drlee

Thank you Drlee. My wife and I have been steering clear of others. She had to stop work until we are sure we have a negative test result and we have completed any required quarantines. My thoughts and positive vibes are with you and your fellow health care workers.
#15153391
@Politics_Observer, best of luck to you and your family, God bless.

Godstud wrote:@Doug64 Maybe they're looking in the wrong place for the start of the pandemic.

Study Suggests Covid-19 Was In The U.S. Weeks Earlier Than Thought, Before First Public Cases In China
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart ... 37ea14bf8c

Godstud, it's generally a good idea to check primary documents. Taking a look at the actual study, and it turns out that the blood where the antibodies were discovered were drawn from December 13, 2019, to January 17, 2020. The first public case in Wuhan was December 1st, and the Wuhan lab workers that were sick with Wuhan virus-like symptoms predated that.

Do you think you'll change the name back to Covid-19(from the stupid name you've given it) when you discover it wasn't from China? I doubt it.

I wasn't the one to first call this the Wuhan virus, that was the MSM. They were also the ones to first call it the China virus, "Covid-19" came later and the first two didn't fall out of favor with the MSM(D) until the CCP complained about it and they realized they could make the CCP happy and attack Trump for more supposed racism at the same time.
#15153413
And some news that you're unlikely to get from the MSM(D), as the teachers' unions do their best to ignore the science and inflict harm to our children:

Broward schools accused of ‘spying’ on teachers — catching them out and about despite COVID fears
The Broward School District has scoured Facebook pages of teachers working remotely to catch them partying, traveling and failing to wear masks at a time the educators say COVID-19 makes it too risky for them to return to campus.

One teacher is pictured at her daughter’s destination wedding in Jamaica. Another attended a political rally for Joe Biden. Others were pictured with cocktails in restaurants or enjoying a Disney or beach vacation with family or friends.

The district used about 40 pages of research about remote teachers during an arbitration hearing last week with the Broward Teachers Union, which challenged the district’s decision to end remote work assignments for most teachers.

“If individuals on remote assignment can go to a Biden rally or to Animal Kingdom or to a luncheon, they can safely return to in-person teaching,” Stephanie Marchman, a lawyer representing Broward Schools, said during a hearing Friday.

The effort amounts to “spying” on its employees, according to the Broward Teachers Union, which argued that the information is irrelevant since there were no conditions for what teachers could do while working remotely. Union lawyer Mark Richard also said the employees are doing activities encouraged by Gov. Ron DeSantis, a proponent of keeping businesses open.

“You’re saying if you do something that puts you at risk, you should be at risk at all times,” Richard said during the hearing. “This is a sad day for the Broward County school system. Once you’ve gone to a Biden rally and didn’t practice social distancing, you might as well come to school, increase exposure and die.”

The arbitration hearing, held Thursday through Saturday on Zoom, was closed to the public by order of the school district. A South Florida Sun Sentinel reporter was kicked out twice, on Thursday and Saturday. The arbitrator ruled the district can order teachers back, but must turn over information to the union about how decisions are made.

The union complaint had argued the district unfairly ended most of the 1,700 remote work assignments granted last fall. An agreement in September said the district would strive to grant the most remote work accommodations possible, with priority given to teachers with health issues that made them more at risk should they contract COVID-19. These include cancer, heart disease, Type 1 diabetes, kidney disease and obesity.

One social media post showed James Keith Calloway, 58, a teacher coach who had been working remotely, posed in a holiday photo close to others and without a mask. But Calloway told the Sun Sentinel the photo was taken in December 2019, before the pandemic. His brother posted it this past holiday season, leading to confusion. Calloway also said he’s not a member of the Broward Teachers Union, which filed the complaint.

“I just find it hard to believe [the district] would go to this extent. I really do,” he said.

Marchman questioned whether Calloway doesn’t want to return to school because he no longer lives in the area. She presented property tax records showing he bought a home in Groveland, about three hours from Broward County, in October and declared that his primary residence by receiving a homestead exemption. Calloway said he still has a rental property in Broward but has filed his paperwork to retire from the district. He said it’s due to his health, not his residency.

The district also questioned photos of elementary teacher Tracy Merlin, who attended an outdoor rally for Biden on Oct. 29. She is wearing a mask in all photos.

“When I take a personal day, you know it’s for a good reason,” she wrote on the Facebook post.

Merlin couldn’t be reached for comment, despite attempts by phone and through Twitter. She attended a recent public meeting on Zoom designed to rally support for teachers working remotely. She warned teachers to be aware of the optics of any efforts to organize.

“If people are asking for social distancing or asking to be working from home, I caution us as a profession not to be hypocritical,” she said. “Keep that in mind as you organize the things to demonstrate our frustration.”

District lawyers also questioned Kelly Sanfilippo, a middle school science teacher who served as a witness for the union. She had been working remotely due to pregnancy. She testified she hasn’t traveled and does only curbside pickup.

The lawyers asked her about a Facebook photo showing her holding her young daughter at the zoo.

“That’s a local zoo. Its an outdoor zoo and there’s social distancing, which is the only reason I went,” Sanfilippo told the lawyers.

The constant use of social media photos angered Richard, the union lawyer.

“They’re going onto Facebook and spying or whatever on teachers,” he said during the hearing. “They’re making some insane assertion about a picture of a 2-year-old in a park. Doctors say it’s good to be outside as long as you keep social distancing. What is the relevance of this?”
#15153433
I see that @Doug64 has decided to take the side of the murdering republicans. His logic is this. If some teachers do dangerous things then all teachers have to come back to school and kill themselves, students and their families. This is because Doug has time and again in this thread and others shown us that he is willing to risk thousands or even hundreds of thousands of lives to accomplish two things:

1. Appeal to Republican Party members who are simply not smart enough to realize how dangerous this disease is.

2. Make more money for corporate America by requiring American workers to risk their lives and their lifetime health to feed the coffers.

This is the level of morality where Doug is living.

Now let's look at another piece of right wing bullshit Doug is trying to feed us. He said that we would not see this story in "mainstream Media" which he refers to as (D) because he thinks it makes him look smart. Of course this is not true. Want proof? Here it is. The source that Doug quoted is Blaze Media. What do we know about Blaze?

As one of the nation's largest independent media companies, Blaze Media reaches over 165 million people each month through radio, podcasts, Roku, Amazon Fire, Apple TV, social media, email newsletters, and the web.


But that massive market penetration is NOT "mainstrean" in Doug's estimation. We could compare it with the New York Times who I am certain Doug would call MSM(D) and its weekly circulation of 465,000.

But wait. Is it true that other media outlets did not carry the story? How would Doug know? He obviously is one of those drones who gets his news entirely from right wing sources. He completely missed that virtually every newspaper and television station covered it. It was all over facebook. Is Facebook not mainstream media? Actually it is the largest. Yahoo News covered it. So did NBC, CBS and ABC.

But Doug, in his attempt to kill as many people as possible for convenience and money, wants us to care about this local story. And it is a local story. But Republicans are so starved for news that makes them look stupid that they will post anything.

I will agree with Doug on one point. This is a shocking story. It is another example of government violating the privacy of the people and points to a need to stop them from doing this by Federal Law.
#15153535
Covid death toll at N.Y. state nursing homes 50 percent higher than reported, AG says

The New York state Health Department underreported the Covid-19 death toll in nursing homes by as much as 50 percent, the state’s attorney general charged Thursday.

More nursing home residents died from the coronavirus than the Health Department’s "published nursing home data reflected and may have been undercounted by as much as 50 percent,” Attorney General Letitia James' investigators concluded in 76-page report.

homes 50 percent higher than reported, AG says

As the pandemic and our investigations continue, it is imperative that we understand why the residents of nursing homes in New York unnecessarily suffered at such an alarming rate,” James said in a statement.

New York leads the country in the number of Covid-19 deaths with 43,734, according to the latest NBC News tally, most of which occurred in the early days of the pandemic, when public health officials were trying figure out how the disease was spreading.

There was no immediate response from Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat whose pandemic response has been widely praised but who has also been criticized for waiting until May to reverse a state policy that required long-term care facilities to accept recovering patients who may still test positive for Covid-19.

Cuomo has insisted that it was up to the nursing homes to alert state health officials if they were not equipped to take care of infected residents. And a report issued by the state in July laid the blame for the more than 8,500 deaths of seniors on staffers who unwittingly infected residents.

Dr. Howard Zucker, the state health commissioner, insisted in a statement that there was no "undercount."

"The word 'undercount' implies there are more total fatalities than have been reported; this is factually wrong," Zucker said. "The OAG's report is only referring to the count of people who were in nursing homes but transferred to hospitals and later died. The OAG suggests that all should be counted as nursing home deaths and not hospital deaths even though they died in hospitals."

Cuomo's office said Thursday the state followed federal guidance when issuing

This is now more than a nursing home scandal, this is a massive corruption and coverup scandal at the highest level of New York State Government implicating the Governor, the Secretary to the Governor, the New York State Health Commissioner and the Governor’s staff," Stefanik said in a statement.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnew ... cna1255997
#15153557
And we add Finfinder to the group of despicable hacks who are so desperate to find some kind of moral equivalency with the Republican COVID-19 genocide that they rejoice in nursing home deaths.

I suppose they do not know just how despicably ignorant or deliberately murderous they appear to normal people.

I would be happy to take Hindsite to work with me some day. He can see the disaster his party and especially his God Trump has left to the nation. The pain, the despair, the terror and the grief that people like him are responsible for by supporting the killers they put in power. But he and Doug64 would be far to afraid to set foot in the clinic and we would have to keep them out to protect them from their own culpable stupidity.
#15153558
Finfinder wrote:Defending Cuomo?


No, thank you.

If you say this person underreported deaths, and you think this is a bad thing, I agree with you.

All groups that have underreported deaths should be held accountable. Do you agree?

Proof?


Alcohol and math.
#15153564
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, thank you.

If you say this person underreported deaths, and you think this is a bad thing, I agree with you.

All groups that have underreported deaths should be held accountable. Do you agree?



Alcohol and math.


Obviously you’re quick to defend Cuomo. What part of the equation includes ordering infected nursing home residents back into their facilities and then miss reporting their deaths? I didn’t say it. It was in the article did you actually read and research the topic?
#15153567
Finfinder wrote:Obviously you’re quick to defend Cuomo.


I see. You are ignoring the fact that I agree that the deaths are underreported.

And you are ignoring the fact that I agreed this is a bad thing.

You do agree that this is bad, right?

What part of the equation includes ordering infected nursing home residents back into their facilities and then miss reporting their deaths? I didn’t say it. It was in the article did you actually read and research the topic?


What part of what equation?

I am not defending or justifying this. As far as I can tell, this is yet another reason why developed countries choose to run things differently than the US does.

This probably saved people a bunch of money, so I understand why it was done. And this is also why we need to remove the profit motive from health care and senior care.
#15153571
Drlee wrote:And we add Finfinder to the group of despicable hacks who are so desperate to find some kind of moral equivalency with the Republican COVID-19 genocide that they rejoice in nursing home deaths.

I suppose they do not know just how despicably ignorant or deliberately murderous they appear to normal people.

I would be happy to take Hindsite to work with me some day. He can see the disaster his party and especially his God Trump has left to the nation. The pain, the despair, the terror and the grief that people like him are responsible for by supporting the killers they put in power. But he and Doug64 would be far to afraid to set foot in the clinic and we would have to keep them out to protect them from their own culpable stupidity.


Dr. Lee’s mad I posted an article showing that the governor of New York ordered infected nursing home residents back into their facilities and then misreported the amount of deaths due to Covid.

Dr. Lee forgets that a hospital ship was sent to New York and Cuomo didn’t use it Dr. Lee forgets Cuomo praised Trumps efforts on COVID. Dr. Lee has no criticism for the Democrat Como. Dr. Lee has politicize this issue the most on this forum his projections get lamer and lamer. Stop attacking the poster stop being a bigot Dr. Lee offer something else that is actually worth the bandwidth.
#15153575
Pants-of-dog wrote:I see. You are ignoring the fact that I agree that the deaths are underreported.

And you are ignoring the fact that I agreed this is a bad thing.

You do agree that this is bad, right?



What part of what equation?

I am not defending or justifying this. As far as I can tell, this is yet another reason why developed countries choose to run things differently than the US does.

This probably saved people a bunch of money, so I understand why it was done. And this is also why we need to remove the profit motive from health care and senior care.


Yet you take such good care in selecting your words so you don’t criticize the liberal Democrat.

I see what you’re all about.
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