How to deal with Trump? - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15159864
Honestly, the best way to deal with Trump is to take him out behind the wood shed and put him down, just like they did to Old Yeller.
#15159877
Godstud wrote:Honestly, the best way to deal with Trump is to take him out behind the wood shed and put him down, just like they did to Old Yeller.

Killing your political opponents? Hmmm... Is that the best way for Trump supporters to deal with Trump detractors too?
#15159880
blackjack21 wrote:Killing your political opponents? Hmmm... Is that the best way for Trump supporters to deal with Trump detractors too?


If annihilation is necessary, I'd say doing it on unrepentant Trump supporters is far more effective than doing it on Trump himself.

Some people here hate Trump so much that they fail to notice he's merely someone enabled by a wider sentiment.
By late
#15159884
I think I am new to the thread.

The answer is do nothing...

Trump is trying to dominate the Republican party absolutely. That's good news for everyone but Republicans.

Resistance is an inherent property in organisms and ecosystems. His fight will transform the party in unpredictable ways. That's a long term way of looking at it.

Over the short term, the party may become his hand puppet. I doubt it, Murkowski should be able to weather the storm, and (perversely) an internal fight is likely to damage him more than his many failures outside the party. The Republican rank and file will be paying attention, and it's easy to understand.

And as long as he is attacking other Republicans, he's not attacking the country. Which would be good.
#15159885
Patrickov wrote:If annihilation is necessary, I'd say doing it on unrepentant Trump supporters is far more effective than doing it on Trump himself.

Some people here hate Trump so much that they fail to notice he's merely someone enabled by a wider sentiment.

As I have been saying since 2016, Donald Trump is not important. He's a cipher, and not even a very good cipher at that - his personality defects tend to repel even his most ardent supporters. No, it is the social, economic and political forces which currently prevail in the US right now which have given rise to the groundswell of resentment and alienation from the existing political system. Donald Trump simply rode that wave, like a flabby surfer with a bad combover.

But even annihilating his supporters wouldn't make the problem go away either - the same social, economic and political environment would just produce more resentful and alienated people who would find another would-be Fuehrer to rally behind. We need to change the system.
#15159886
:lol: You're such a whiney little girl, BJ! :lol: You can't even take a joke without getting your panties in a bunch.
#15159888
Rancid wrote:I was looking back at all my presidential predictions. I got them all wrong except one. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Here's who I called.

2000: Gore (wrong)
2004: Kerry (wrong)
2008: McCain (wrong)
2012: Obama (right)
2016: Clinton (wrong)
2020: Trump (wrong)

Fuck I'm bad at this. :lol:

I'm usually pretty good.

2000: Bush (right)
2004: Bush (right)
2008: Obama (right) Didn't vote for either of them.
2012: Obama (right) Voted for Romney though.
2016: Trump (right)
2020: Trump (right if you don't believe phony absentee ballots)

Beren wrote:He most likely is, since he's a complete underdog actually.

He was an underdog in 2016 and 2020. However, that's establishment handicapping, and they don't understand the electorate. See, there is no point to this thread if Trump is going to implode. Instead, Trump gained 12M votes and nobody is denying that, which is why the thread is relevant.

Beren wrote:Or it could also be compared to the rise of a new Christian Rome, in which his pagan ways and manners are not at all welcome anymore.

Well, that's the problem with the entire edifice of political correctness and wokeness--even it's own aren't welcome at some point. Many have rightly characterized political correctness and wokeness as a revolution pushed from the top down. It's not popular at all.

Beren wrote:However, his defeat is still to be made complete.

Betraying the fact that he wasn't defeated at all--he gained 12M votes.

Tainari88 wrote:Trump is going to be toxic for the party and he will not be allowed to run.

He already won the CPAC poll in a rout, like Romney did before the 2012 election. The hope among the establishment is that people look at 1/6 as some sort of shocking event that undermines support for Trump. The CPAC poll should show you that didn't happen at all. Dismissing charges against 2020 BLM/Antifa rioters for felony assaults on police officers while throwing the book at Qanon rioters on 1/6 only shows that the establishment definitely shows both fear and favor and that justice is not blind at all. The harder they try, the more they make it worse. It's like one of those Chinese finger traps.

Tainari88 wrote:Trump is going to open up a Fox style news agency of alternative facts and be undermined and trashed by people like Zuckerberg.

That remains to be seen. I think Trump does need to pivot away from the major social media outlets if he wants to get his message out.

Tainari88 wrote:He will die of some bad diet consequences but a much more sophisticated version of Trump like pendejo racist but with a Bush style compassionate conservative speech but really loving white nationalism behind closed doors will give the Democrats a run for their money

He's 74. That hasn't done him in yet. Everyone approaching that age is largely on borrowed time statistically speaking--yet, he's pretty spry for his age.

Tainari88 wrote:I predict a hard leftist for the win in 2032.

Dynamics change rapidly in that time frame. In 2000, everyone was deathly afraid of Y2K, which turned out to be nothing. Nine months later, everything changed. Few people saw it coming. There are some major demographic shifts on the horizon which you can incorporate into your analysis. I listen to people like Peter Zeihan, but I don't always agree. He thinks capital becomes really expensive in three years. We shall see. It didn't work that way in Japan. There economy became more advanced, while GDP growth stagnated and interest rates were low to negative.

Tainari88 wrote:Game over for the USA for the establishment moderate middle by 2032.

They are in trouble, no doubt. This whole Biden thing is turning into a disaster for them, because they didn't expect Trump would actually get 12M more votes given all the scandals they manufactured and the relentless negative press--hence, threads like this to begin with. However, people wicked enough to do that and then push HR1 with 20k troops, fencing and razor wire around the Capitol aren't to be underestimated. Desperate people do desperate things whether they are Qanon rioters or establishment pols stuffing ballot boxes.

Tainari88 wrote:But the problem is going to be the USA will be economically in shambles by then and the PRC and the rest of the Asians will be 80% in the finish line for being global drivers and powerhouses along with a consolidated EU and a reinvigorated unaligned group on the path to recovery.

I think we're in for a bumpy ride, and probably a wave of 1970s style inflation at some point. However, I've been wrong on that so far as we've been trying to counter deflation since 2000, but blew a housing bubble and a oil price bubble in the mid-2000s as a result. Quantitative easing isn't the same as foreign-held debt. Right now, basically holding dollars means you get a hair cut, but dumping dollars for countries that export to the US means getting beheaded. It's a no-win situation for them.

Asia cannot lead a consumption-led economic recovery, because it has a declining population which will become even more obvious by 2032. The EU also has an aging populace, but not quite as dire as China for example. If you have a 1 child policy and it takes 2.1 live births per couple to keep your population stable, you'll see a dramatic drop in China's population, as we're already seeing a drop in the working age population. With a 1-child policy, pretty soon you run out of 25 year olds. Look at what has happened in Japan since 1989 for example.

Maybe WalMart will re-open in San Francisco, but everything will be sold out of vending machines like in Japan. That counters both the $15 an hour problem, and the fact that San Francisco will not prosecute shoplifting.

Tainari88 wrote:The 21st century is going to be the PRC and the rest of Asia, Even a united Korea by the end of the 21st century.

I'm very skeptical of your PRC call. At work, I get a PC refresh every three years. I was due in August. Where's my new Lenovo with 32GB of RAM and 512GB flash drive? I'll give you a little hint--the business grade laptops are made in Wuhan, China. The PRC isn't going to make me wait 6 months for a high end computer if they don't HAVE TO. That's a fat margin purchase compared to their consumer equivalents. You are not getting the straight story from China.

China boosts their GDP numbers with heavy construction--building cities that nobody lives in. Think of them as something more haunting than shiny new Detroits, where there are ghost neighborhoods and districts. China is on the precipice of a designed population collapse. It simply cannot grow GDP through consumption. It has to export.

So if Asia can keep output high, maybe we don't get that big bout of inflation in CPI. However, I'd be looking at holding some leverageable assets.

Patrickov wrote:If annihilation is necessary, I'd say doing it on unrepentant Trump supporters is far more effective than doing it on Trump himself.

Effective means you succeed. 74M heavily armed Trump supporters would not take that without a fight, and the establishment doesn't have the appetite for that kind of bloodshed. Hell, they're prosecuting "armed" 18-year olds that had nothing more than a baton and didn't hit or hurt anyone, while lining the Capitol with 20k troops, fencing and razor wire. People are calling the Capitol "Fort Pelosi." The establishment is visibly scared, and if anyone so much as dared to do what you're calling for, it's the establishment that would pay with their lives, not Trump supporters. You'd have a Civil War that made the 19th Century one look like cock fight.

Patrickov wrote:Some people here hate Trump so much that they fail to notice he's merely someone enabled by a wider sentiment.

Yes, but they're deathly afraid of wags who put their feet up on Pelosi's desk, or moved a dais, or wear horned headdresses. It's the people jimjam derides that you have to be afraid of. There are more guns than people in the US. It's frankly crazy to think that they will just let themselves be mowed down.

late wrote:The answer is do nothing...

Every now and then, you come up with the right answer.

late wrote:I doubt it, Murkowski should be able to weather the storm, and (perversely) an internal fight is likely to damage him more than his many failures outside the party.

Yes, but it does nothing to address what led to Trump in the first place, and Biden is going back to that in spades. That might make the establishment happy, but the rank and file already has a dim view of it.

late wrote:And as long as he is attacking other Republicans, he's not attacking the country. Which would be good.

He's attacking three senators and maybe 11 house members. That's not a big deal in the scheme of things.

Potemkin wrote:As I have been saying since 2016, Donald Trump is not important. He's a cipher, and not even a very good cipher at that - his personality defects tend to repel even his most ardent supporters.

Yes, but it doesn't start and stop in the United States.

Potemkin wrote:No, it is the social, economic and political forces which currently prevail in the US right now which have given rise to the groundswell of resentment and alienation from the existing political system.

Yes, but that's the case in Europe as well. The US establishment went full on materialist after the Soviet Union fell, and seemed to think that the government simply giving people stuff made in China would keep the masses happy. We already know that doesn't work in mice or rhesus monkeys--without agency and socialization, they become self destructive. Yet, the establishment hands out its "gifts" with contempt for the people they are supposedly helping. I frankly don't see how that can last. Biden abandoning the State of the Union, not giving any press conferences (the only newly inaugurated president in 100 years to not do so within thirty days or so), and the optics of Fort Pelosi do not support even a figment of visage of popular government.

Potemkin wrote:But even annihilating his supporters wouldn't make the problem go away either - the same social, economic and political environment would just produce more resentful and alienated people who would find another would-be Fuehrer to rally behind. We need to change the system.

Perhaps, but people are not clamoring for socialism. They want civic nationalism and social stability for the working classes, which is precisely undermined by outsourcing manufacturing and driving down wages with immigration--illegal or otherwise. The working class Trump supporters are quite right in sensing the elite's contempt for them. It's not even veiled at this point.

Godstud wrote::lol: You're such a whiney little girl, BJ! :lol: You can't even take a joke without getting your panties in a bunch.

Perhaps it's funny from all the way over in Thailand. When's the last time you saw a military garrison at Capitol Hill? By the way, I find it interesting that you use use females as a means to denigrate men. You do that with homosexuals too. It says a lot about you.
#15159900
blackjack21 wrote:I'm usually pretty good.

2000: Bush (right)
2004: Bush (right)
2008: Obama (right) Didn't vote for either of them.
2012: Obama (right) Voted for Romney though.
2016: Trump (right)
2020: Trump (right if you don't believe phony absentee ballots)


He was an underdog in 2016 and 2020. However, that's establishment handicapping, and they don't understand the electorate. See, there is no point to this thread if Trump is going to implode. Instead, Trump gained 12M votes and nobody is denying that, which is why the thread is relevant.


Well, that's the problem with the entire edifice of political correctness and wokeness--even it's own aren't welcome at some point. Many have rightly characterized political correctness and wokeness as a revolution pushed from the top down. It's not popular at all.


Betraying the fact that he wasn't defeated at all--he gained 12M votes.


He already won the CPAC poll in a rout, like Romney did before the 2012 election. The hope among the establishment is that people look at 1/6 as some sort of shocking event that undermines support for Trump. The CPAC poll should show you that didn't happen at all. Dismissing charges against 2020 BLM/Antifa rioters for felony assaults on police officers while throwing the book at Qanon rioters on 1/6 only shows that the establishment definitely shows both fear and favor and that justice is not blind at all. The harder they try, the more they make it worse. It's like one of those Chinese finger traps.


That remains to be seen. I think Trump does need to pivot away from the major social media outlets if he wants to get his message out.


He's 74. That hasn't done him in yet. Everyone approaching that age is largely on borrowed time statistically speaking--yet, he's pretty spry for his age.


Dynamics change rapidly in that time frame. In 2000, everyone was deathly afraid of Y2K, which turned out to be nothing. Nine months later, everything changed. Few people saw it coming. There are some major demographic shifts on the horizon which you can incorporate into your analysis. I listen to people like Peter Zeihan, but I don't always agree. He thinks capital becomes really expensive in three years. We shall see. It didn't work that way in Japan. There economy became more advanced, while GDP growth stagnated and interest rates were low to negative.


They are in trouble, no doubt. This whole Biden thing is turning into a disaster for them, because they didn't expect Trump would actually get 12M more votes given all the scandals they manufactured and the relentless negative press--hence, threads like this to begin with. However, people wicked enough to do that and then push HR1 with 20k troops, fencing and razor wire around the Capitol aren't to be underestimated. Desperate people do desperate things whether they are Qanon rioters or establishment pols stuffing ballot boxes.


I think we're in for a bumpy ride, and probably a wave of 1970s style inflation at some point. However, I've been wrong on that so far as we've been trying to counter deflation since 2000, but blew a housing bubble and a oil price bubble in the mid-2000s as a result. Quantitative easing isn't the same as foreign-held debt. Right now, basically holding dollars means you get a hair cut, but dumping dollars for countries that export to the US means getting beheaded. It's a no-win situation for them.

Asia cannot lead a consumption-led economic recovery, because it has a declining population which will become even more obvious by 2032. The EU also has an aging populace, but not quite as dire as China for example. If you have a 1 child policy and it takes 2.1 live births per couple to keep your population stable, you'll see a dramatic drop in China's population, as we're already seeing a drop in the working age population. With a 1-child policy, pretty soon you run out of 25 year olds. Look at what has happened in Japan since 1989 for example.

Maybe WalMart will re-open in San Francisco, but everything will be sold out of vending machines like in Japan. That counters both the $15 an hour problem, and the fact that San Francisco will not prosecute shoplifting.


I'm very skeptical of your PRC call. At work, I get a PC refresh every three years. I was due in August. Where's my new Lenovo with 32GB of RAM and 512GB flash drive? I'll give you a little hint--the business grade laptops are made in Wuhan, China. The PRC isn't going to make me wait 6 months for a high end computer if they don't HAVE TO. That's a fat margin purchase compared to their consumer equivalents. You are not getting the straight story from China.

China boosts their GDP numbers with heavy construction--building cities that nobody lives in. Think of them as something more haunting than shiny new Detroits, where there are ghost neighborhoods and districts. China is on the precipice of a designed population collapse. It simply cannot grow GDP through consumption. It has to export.

So if Asia can keep output high, maybe we don't get that big bout of inflation in CPI. However, I'd be looking at holding some leverageable assets.


Effective means you succeed. 74M heavily armed Trump supporters would not take that without a fight, and the establishment doesn't have the appetite for that kind of bloodshed. Hell, they're prosecuting "armed" 18-year olds that had nothing more than a baton and didn't hit or hurt anyone, while lining the Capitol with 20k troops, fencing and razor wire. People are calling the Capitol "Fort Pelosi." The establishment is visibly scared, and if anyone so much as dared to do what you're calling for, it's the establishment that would pay with their lives, not Trump supporters. You'd have a Civil War that made the 19th Century one look like cock fight.


Yes, but they're deathly afraid of wags who put their feet up on Pelosi's desk, or moved a dais, or wear horned headdresses. It's the people jimjam derides that you have to be afraid of. There are more guns than people in the US. It's frankly crazy to think that they will just let themselves be mowed down.


Every now and then, you come up with the right answer.


Yes, but it does nothing to address what led to Trump in the first place, and Biden is going back to that in spades. That might make the establishment happy, but the rank and file already has a dim view of it.


He's attacking three senators and maybe 11 house members. That's not a big deal in the scheme of things.


Yes, but it doesn't start and stop in the United States.


Yes, but that's the case in Europe as well. The US establishment went full on materialist after the Soviet Union fell, and seemed to think that the government simply giving people stuff made in China would keep the masses happy. We already know that doesn't work in mice or rhesus monkeys--without agency and socialization, they become self destructive. Yet, the establishment hands out its "gifts" with contempt for the people they are supposedly helping. I frankly don't see how that can last. Biden abandoning the State of the Union, not giving any press conferences (the only newly inaugurated president in 100 years to not do so within thirty days or so), and the optics of Fort Pelosi do not support even a figment of visage of popular government.


Perhaps, but people are not clamoring for socialism. They want civic nationalism and social stability for the working classes, which is precisely undermined by outsourcing manufacturing and driving down wages with immigration--illegal or otherwise. The working class Trump supporters are quite right in sensing the elite's contempt for them. It's not even veiled at this point.


Perhaps it's funny from all the way over in Thailand. When's the last time you saw a military garrison at Capitol Hill? By the way, I find it interesting that you use use females as a means to denigrate men. You do that with homosexuals too. It says a lot about you.


Well BJ, I have to say that I think the USA as a superpower is pretty much finished. Mainly because the average person in the USA doesn't really think that the system as a democracy is working and aren't believers in the establishment. They know no one gives a damn. Not in either major party. So? This means that the USA is not going to make a fascist come back. You got too many non white people all over the place. If you wanted an all white Utopia it is far too late. Especially in California. The USA is armed and it is also cynical at this point. it means that extracting the neoliberals/neocons from power is going to be hard as hell. And it means that if the masses who don't know the basics like most other nations with very marked class divisions know? They will wind up betrayed and slayed. And unfortunately the world keeps on turning BJ. And the PRC is full of very clever long term planners, spies and schemers waiting to bust a move on market hegemony of the world. I see it in Latin America plain as day.

The Chinese are interested in Latin America resources and cheap labor. And they are willing to do a lot more for Latin America to gain access to those resources than the USA ever had done before. The USA was STUPID as @Potemkin stated before in this thread and his statement of wickedness is less punished in human history than stupidity. He is a great student of human history as I am. And what he stated briefly is true. The USA is stupid with not having assessed things in a logical and power based way. Instead they were bought off by greed and selfish smallness and they did not care about nationalism of any sort. Traditional or white power based nationalism either. So being against their nation and only out of themselves like the greedy, small minded political sellouts they truly are? They were stupid. And made the wrong move.

They are going to bleed that for the next century. The PRC is not kind or gentle. But the moves that the government has made on the USA and Europe? Is not stupid. That is where the USA faltered and caved. It is obvious to me.

Trump can have the conservative movement all he wants. The problem is he doesn't have those deep state or backdoor playing both sides of the fence power players controlling and dictating what they say on his side. He is a loose cannon into sociopathic narcissism. Since he is unpredictable in the extreme they played all their strings and removed him from the game. It doesn't matter what his supporters want. The nationless disloyal capitalist liberals and conservatives have removed his ass.

That is the truth.
By late
#15159902
Tainari88 wrote:
The nationless disloyal capitalist liberals and conservatives have removed his ass.



Disloyal to Trump?

Sure, my oath is to my country, not some psychopath.

Far too many of the Trump crowd are disloyal to their country, some are traitors.

You occasionally say weird shit, but this post takes the cake.
#15159905
Tainari88 wrote:And the PRC is full of very clever long term planners, spies and schemers waiting to bust a move on market hegemony of the world. I see it in Latin America plain as day.

Yes. It's not unlike Japan of 30 years ago. They de-sourced, and that may be what China has to do as well.

Tainari88 wrote:The Chinese are interested in Latin America resources and cheap labor. And they are willing to do a lot more for Latin America to gain access to those resources than the USA ever had done before.

Be careful what you ask for. Belt and road is a debt, not a gift.

Tainari88 wrote:Instead they were bought off by greed and selfish smallness and they did not care about nationalism of any sort.

They do care about power, however. Remember, the only person I didn't want to win in 2020 was Joe Biden, and he is the most improbable victor given he came in fourth in Iowa, fifth in New Hampshire and 2nd in Nevada--and the people beating him suddenly dropped out. Why? He ran no discernable campaign, and won 81M votes? He has given no press conference since assuming the presidency? He has ignored the State of the Union address? He's bombed Syria? And with 20k troops in DC, fencing and razor wire, we're meant to believe this is a popular government? The most popular one in US history? These people are small enough to try to gaslight a nation and the entire world to boot, but I don't think it is selling anywhere.

Tainari88 wrote:The PRC is not kind or gentle.

They won't be kind and gentle in Central or South America either, but they seem to have you fooled.

Tainari88 wrote:He is a loose cannon into sociopathic narcissism.

Who is bombing Syria already with no Congressional authorization, with no NATO clause invoked, with no UN Security Council Resolution? Who has stationed 20k troops in the US Capitol with fencing and razor wire everywhere? Who is dropping felony charges against rioters attacking police in 2020, while doing his level best to prosecute even the tiniest infraction on 1/6 to the fullest extent? You see why I told you he would be bad news? We're just getting started. If you judge people by what they do, and not what they say, you'll see things very differently. That doesn't mean you'll agree with me, but you won't see Biden as better than Trump because he's not.

Tainari88 wrote:Since he is unpredictable in the extreme they played all their strings and removed him from the game.

This is a Pyrrhic victory if ever there was one. They did not remove Trump from the game. They removed him from office. If they removed Trump from the game, there would be no point in this thread or discussing how to deal with him as he wouldn't be a factor.

Tainari88 wrote:It doesn't matter what his supporters want. The nationless disloyal capitalist liberals and conservatives have removed his ass.

That is the truth.

They did not neutralize the political factors that led to Trump. In fact, they are putting them back in place. That is also a fact. So this will not go away as the establishment had hoped. You don't gain 12M votes and lose. Some dynamics may change, but I don't think that the federal government is in a stable configuration now. This destabilization is what has to happen to get these people out of power. It's more complicated, because a cross-party cabal is not one person by a long shot. They infiltrate everywhere, but they are terribly unpopular both in the US and around the world.

However, I think Biden is the least bad option of the neoliberals, because he's not all there and they have to hide him from public view. There's simply no explanation for not giving a SOTU address or not giving a press conference. The reality is that he can't do it well enough to give the establishment the confidence to put their puppet front and center. They have even discussed taking the nuclear codes away from Biden. What does that tell you about their confidence in their own hand-selected successor?
#15159908
late wrote:Disloyal to Trump?

I believe she means they are disloyal to their nation, not disloyal to Trump. They are loyal neither to Trump, nor to ordinary working Americans, nor even to the nation-state of the USA. Their only loyalty, in fact, is to their own bank balance.

Sure, my oath is to my country, not some psychopath.

Far too many of the Trump crowd are disloyal to their country, some are traitors.

You occasionally say weird shit, but this post takes the cake.

People can oppose Donald Trump and still be disloyal to their nation. Your enemy's enemy is not necessarily your friend.
By late
#15159915
Potemkin wrote:
I believe she means they are disloyal to their nation, not disloyal to Trump. They are loyal neither to Trump, nor to ordinary working Americans, nor even to the nation-state of the USA. Their only loyalty, in fact, is to their own bank balance.


People can oppose Donald Trump and still be disloyal to their nation. Your enemy's enemy is not necessarily your friend.



Yeah, well, the backstory is also silly in places, but I am hoping to avoid going over that stuff again.
By Rugoz
#15159916
Potemkin wrote:As I have been saying since 2016, Donald Trump is not important. He's a cipher, and not even a very good cipher at that - his personality defects tend to repel even his most ardent supporters.


Nah, his supporters love him.
#15159917
late wrote:Yeah, well, the backstory is also silly in places, but I am hoping to avoid going over that stuff again.

In which places was it silly, @late? Would you agree that the USA has misplayed its hand in Latin America since, say, 1945? And would you also agree that this was caused by a mixture of arrogance, ignorance and short-term thinking? In other words, stupidity?
#15159919
late wrote:Disloyal to Trump?

Sure, my oath is to my country, not some psychopath.

Far too many of the Trump crowd are disloyal to their country, some are traitors.

You occasionally say weird shit, but this post takes the cake.


I don't say weird shit Late. If the liberals cared about working class people they would not be shutting out the socialists in the Democratic party and taking damn bribes from the corporations and thinking they can be rich and fight for the working class at the same time while being loyal to for profit BULLSHIT. For me what is weird is saying to the Trump crowd that America is important to them and selling out to for profit greedy assholes who play both parties to get the oppressive crap and no wage hikes happening. Playing into their hands every time because the LIBERALS like the Clintons are sellouts and they own that fucking sellout piece of shit party. That is not weird. That is being realistic.
#15159923
Potemkin wrote:In which places was it silly, @late? Would you agree that the USA has misplayed its hand in Latin America since, say, 1945? And would you also agree that this was caused by a mixture of arrogance, ignorance and short-term thinking? In other words, stupidity?


Late believes in capitalism that is the Stigler kind. He fails to see that most of the unaligned nations never got any kind of functional capitalism. Ever. So? No one is a true believer in Stigler or any other kind of capitalism. What people know in Mexico, Peru, Bolivia etc is the kind of small microbusinesses that eek out a living. They don't trust corporations.

They think that Latin America is easy to just impose their shit on. The PRC if they do that from half way across the world? Will fail to impose. Look, I even thought in 2007 that if push comes to shove? The USA will sell Puerto Rico to the PRC and others in the Asian group for debt payoffs and getting out of pressure that the PRC will impose on the USA gov't. But, the problem is that we are no longer in the 19th century. They will try that bullshit on many places like American Samoa and Guam where they sell us off like pawns to save their own asses and Latin America is used to colonizers with bad moves and the Yankees have burned most of their credits with us. The Chinese are not interested in getting rid of the socialists and the Commies in power in Latin America. They are going to be interested in feeding a growing hegemony.

Late needs to figure out what that means.

Blackjack thinks the PRC is going to be the same as the Yankee dumbasses from the past. They are not going to do that BJ. They are going to regulate and stabilize those places and then they will negotiate like hell. Watch them.

@blackjack21 thinks the Chinese think like Yankees in imperialism. They don't. They think like they always have thought like Confucius followers. A bunch of administrators who control every individual move a member of their planning scheme comes up with. They are going to think that the way to win is to negotiate with markets.

They are going to cancel debt and send in the Mandarins.

The mistake I think the Chinese will make is assuming that the Latin Americans are going to be as class conscious as they are. They are not. It will be an expensive lesson they will learn. And the Latin American left are not fakes like they are in the PRC. They will find that out too. And it won't be pretty.

But the Americans got defeated through unadulterated greed and lack of values above greed. There were enough warnings. They did not know how to get someone to counter that problem properly. They went for a narcissistic sociopath who loves some fake Casino Capitalism. They should have went with some non radical Bernie or someone like him. Otherwise no one will be able to control the Neocon/Neolib double dose of sellout types. No one.
By wat0n
#15159925
Potemkin wrote:In which places was it silly, @late? Would you agree that the USA has misplayed its hand in Latin America since, say, 1945? And would you also agree that this was caused by a mixture of arrogance, ignorance and short-term thinking? In other words, stupidity?


Latin America has misplayed its hand in Latin America since forever, it's no wonder the US and Soviets did at various points during the Cold War too. The Chinese look like they may end up misplaying their hand too, when they realize one shouldn't underestimate the silly Latin American economic nationalism, ever.
#15159930
wat0n wrote:Latin America has misplayed its hand in Latin America since forever, it's no wonder the US and Soviets did at various points during the Cold War too. The Chinese look like they may end up misplaying their hand too, when they realize one shouldn't underestimate the silly Latin American economic nationalism, ever.


Lol. You are such a conservative Waton. You don't get it yet do you?

The Chinese are going to unburden the problem with debt that Chile has, Brazil has, Argentina has and send in some administrators to get the economy running again. They will then control the market. But unlike the Yankees before them? The governments in Latin America are going to be left alone. Why?

Because the important thing for them is to continue to feed their own society. Not to control and overspend on military ambitions. That is where the Yankees lost the battle there. Spending on constant wars because the people backing Biden and before that Obama and before that Bush...etc....kept thinking that military invasions was the way to control the world.

Goes to show why gun control never was popular in the USA.

You spend too much on war and you lose in this world. All Empires find that out. Japan sure did. They had a go at China and they lost. Because take overs are damn expensive.
#15159932
late wrote:Yeah, well, the backstory is also silly in places, but I am hoping to avoid going over that stuff again.


@blackjack21 is a far right guy who has backed Trump all the time. I think the problem you got Late is that you should have realize why did Biden suddenly become the chosen one eh? You had Michael Bloomberg, you had Bootyjudge. You had Kamala and Amy and Elizabeth and Bernie and Tulsi....none of them survived the pick....and suddenly dropped out and surfaced later....Biden was handpicked in some back room.

Just because Relampaguito is from the far Right doesn't mean he doesn't see the shady shit happening in the Democratic Party because I see the same thing. Someone is commandeering the supposedly 'people's choice'.

Trump followers are almost half the electorate. They are not two or three isolated people. They are enormous amounts of American voters. Why does he attract so many people? He is a racist, he is a crook, and a liar, a narcissist and a conman and a pig of the worst sort.

But he is a loose cannon and hard to predict and control through normal channels.

Those American voters who voted for the man and still support him in the Republican party to this day are there and you are living among them Late.

For me the American voter is disillusioned and angry. And for me Americans are violent imperialists with very little to recommend them but being fooled by a lot of lies. But whole societies are about myths and the power of myths. The myth for them is a conservative America that is rural and honest and religious and traditional. The liberals who run these economies and run DC despise them. They want those people gone. In any way they can get it.

You should not lie to yourself Late on what kind of society you live in. I never did when I lived there. The USA is full of really angry people who were never tolerant of much. That is all a myth. The Trump phenomenon exposed it for what it truly had underneath the surface. And now it is going to be a blood bath.
#15159940
Tainari88 wrote:Lol. You are such a conservative Waton. You don't get it yet do you?

The Chinese are going to unburden the problem with debt that Chile has, Brazil has, Argentina has and send in some administrators to get the economy running again. They will then control the market. But unlike the Yankees before them? The governments in Latin America are going to be left alone. Why?

Because the important thing for them is to continue to feed their own society. Not to control and overspend on military ambitions. That is where the Yankees lost the battle there. Spending on constant wars because the people backing Biden and before that Obama and before that Bush...etc....kept thinking that military invasions was the way to control the world.

Goes to show why gun control never was popular in the USA.

You spend too much on war and you lose in this world. All Empires find that out. Japan sure did. They had a go at China and they lost. Because take overs are damn expensive.


Unburden the debt problems of Latin America? They would simply do what the US did at some point with Cold War bilateral aid and end similarly, when the Latin American governments decide not to pay the Chinese if domestic pressures mandate so (and with far more impunity at that). The Chinese probably know this which is why they will not do something as silly as blindly lending money to Latin American governments, and indeed they have likely accepted Venezuela will not pay its debts back ever. At last, the Road and Belt Initiative doesn't quite include Latin America at all and probably never will.

Also, you are misunderstanding why the US lent money to Latin American governments in the first place. The whole point at the time was to stop the Soviet military threat through development as imagined by the Kennedy Administration, now that the Soviets are gone and the Chinese don't seem to be able to be as threatening militarily for now the US doesn't have a reason to care about Latin America for the most part... Hence the relative indifference the US has shown the region ever since the end of the Cold War and whose last peak was reached with Trump's administration and his explicit attitude that Latin America was a pest.

I'd guess you would be happy with that since that means the Americans don't really care about whatever Latin American governments do or stop doing and hence won't really interfere. This attitude also seems to be mutual as Latin American governments largely don't want to run into conflicts with the US (save Venezuela and perhaps Cuba), and the US is also not the country most Latin Americans look up to as an example to follow and hasn't been for a while even if plenty of us don't hesitate to move here, that title would go to European welfare states or Australia/NZ/Canada (no one wants to copy China either). This lack of interest isn't even unique in American history either and probably serves all sides involved well.

At last, I doubt the US cares about Chinese investment in the region as long as it doesn't translate into a military threat. If anything it probably welcomes it to some extent, particularly if that can get to decrease migratory pressures it's facing from Central America. I'd guess nothing would make the US happier than being able to dump part of the burden of keeping the region afloat on somebody else who's willing to invest in it, despite the risks. Of course, private investment would probably be preferred but I doubt they will be too picky here. If China decided to build military bases in Latin America then we would be talking about a completely different game but this isn't quite the case and the Chinese don't seem to be in a position to do so since they face actual military threats at home.
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