The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 87 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15160029
wat0n wrote:Pretty normal, honestly. A few days ago I had some very mild muscle pain and headache, but I didn't really think it would be COVID so I went on with my daily life (I only went outside to do groceries once I'd developed the symptoms, but I did hit the gym thrice while wearing masks, social distancing, disinfecting, etc between the probable infection time and when the first symptoms appeared). I've been sleeping less than I'd like because I work full time and I'm taking some university coursework, and the headache was no different from what I could get for lack of sleep. I was also unsure if it was COVID because my girlfriend had been testing negative the days prior (she needed the test to fly back to Chile - no negative test 72 hours before boarding means no boarding), so she'd have had to get it in the 40 hours between her last result and the flight, which she did :(

Now her case is not so mild, she has developed an acute bronchitis and has all the symptoms of a really nasty flu, and while she isn't hospitalized she's staying in a quarantine residency back at home.

Right now I'll stay at my apartment unit for as long as I have to per the CDC guidelines. I tried doing the groceries online for the first time, and I'm requesting the delivery people to drop things off at my door. Let's see how that works out.


My next door neighbour caught it from his daughter in January and needed hospital treatment, though his daughter didn't.

He just couldn't resist calling in on her, the silly man. He was only a week away from being vaccinated, too.

He's home now and no longer infectious, but he looks dreadful.

His son -in-law came to collect his car to be MOT'd and he spoke to him from his front door.

I was shocked to the core to see him. He looks twenty years older.

Unfortunately, the tests are very unpleasant to do, so self testing is too often just a waste of time.

I hope you make a good recovery.
#15160074
@snapdragon and @Pants-of-dog thank you both. She's feeling better while I'm basically stable. I've got a headache right now but it's not a big deal.

I also have diarrhea, and have correspondingly been drinking more water than usual.
#15160100
The stimulus package has passes with every republican voting against it. No doubt they will issue massive press releases asking their constituents to return the stimulus checks to the government and not file for unemployment. I know they will do that.

I wonder how many here are going to return their stimulus checks?
#15160170
Got my Pfizer vaccine today at the local Kaiser medical center. The whole process took only thirty minutes. There were five people ahead of me. Shots were given out under a drafty tent and the waiting period was in a less drafty tent. Will get my second shot on March 29. Kaiser was also giving out free masks.
#15160683
I have no idea how much mention this has gotten in the MSM(D) (I'm guessing not much), and I have no idea if Fauci was actually trying to duck the question or just phrased his answer clumsily, but he really stepped in it this time:

Fauci: CDC making 'judgment calls' not necessarily backed by 'actual evidence'
Dr. Anthony Fauci said Wednesday that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s guidelines regarding vaccinated Americans will continue to get more flexible as time goes on, and that sometimes a “judgment call” must be made when making those guidelines that may not necessarily be backed by “actual evidence.”

Dr. Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and chief medical adviser to President Biden, made the comments after CNN’s John Berman asked why the CDC is telling all Americans to avoid unnecessary travel, regardless of vaccination status.

“What’s the science behind not saying it’s safe for people who have been vaccinated, received two doses, to travel?” Mr. Berman asked.

Dr. Fauci sidestepped the question, explaining that the CDC’s updated guidelines unveiled Monday “was the first in a multistep process that they are going to be rolling out.”

“They’re being careful, understandably. They want to get science, they want to get data,” he said. “And when you don’t have the data and you don’t have the actual evidence, then you’ve got to make a judgment call. And I think that’s what you’re going to be seeing in the next weeks. You’re going to see little by little, more and more guidelines getting people to be more and more flexible.

“The first installation of this is what can vaccinated people do in the home setting,” he continued. “Obviously, the next one is going to be what you’re asking. What about travel? What about going out? What about getting a haircut? What about doing things like that? That’s all imminently going to be coming out.”

CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Monday that the CDC is not updating its travel guidance at this time and that everyone should continue to avoid nonessential trips.

“We would like to give the opportunity to vaccinated grandparents to visit their grandchildren and children who are healthy and who are local, but our travel guidance currently has been unchanged,” she said.

The new guidance says people who are fully vaccinated can visit indoors with other fully vaccinated people without wearing masks or social distancing. Vaccinated people can also visit with low-risk, non-vaccinated people from another household without wearing masks or social distancing.

Fully vaccinated people are still being advised to wear masks and social distance in public and to avoid crowds.
#15160747
Yes, because reporting that Fauci admitted that the CDC issues guidance that isn’t backed by data/evidence—quoting his own words, mind—is a “political hit piece.” There’s a reason why the Trump administration pushed through regulation requiring that the federal government be able to make public the data on which it bases its decisions, and this just feeds into it. After all, if the CDC isn’t basing all of its guidance on the science, just what is it basing it on?
#15160749
I think it is trying to be a hit piece against Fauci and fails.

How is it a problem to make a decision when the data is still unavailable? It can be, but often people have to do exactly that.
#15160753
@Pants-of-dog, you’re right, we often need to make decisions while lacking sufficient data. The problem is that the CDC aren’t the ones that are supposed to be doing that, they’re supposed to be the ones supplying the data so we don’t have to. For Fauci to admit that CDC guidance isn’t always based on data is for him to admit that the CDC has pretended to knowledge it doesn’t have and so perpetuated a fraud on the nation. You can bet that going forward, anyone that doesn’t like the effects of any guidance offered by the CDC are going to be demanding to know if this time the CDC actually has the data to back up its assertions, or is just going with its gut. For instance, any guidance it might offer about gun control as a “health crisis.”
#15160754
Doug64 wrote:@Pants-of-dog, you’re right, we often need to make decisions while lacking sufficient data. The problem is that the CDC aren’t the ones that are supposed to be doing that, they’re supposed to be the ones supplying the data so we don’t have to.


No, the CDC also needs to make decisions now and again.

Can you specify which decisions these were that were not based on data and are a problem?

For Fauci to admit that CDC guidance isn’t always based on data is for him to admit that the CDC has pretended to knowledge it doesn’t have and so perpetuated a fraud on the nation.


No. The fact that a doctor explained that sometimes people do not have complete data does not mean that the CDC is lying.

You can bet that going forward, anyone that doesn’t like the effects of any guidance offered by the CDC are going to be demanding to know if this time the CDC actually has the data to back up its assertions, or is just going with its gut. For instance, any guidance it might offer about gun control as a “health crisis.”


And?
#15160758
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, the CDC also needs to make decisions now and again.

No, the CDC does not make decisions, it provides data and makes recommendations. That those recommendations are often followed is because of the belief, now in doubt, that they are based on the science.

Can you specify which decisions these were that were not based on data and are a problem?

In this case, Fauci was asked about the science behind the CDC assertion that it isn’t safe for those that have received both doses of the vaccination to travel.

No. The fact that a doctor explained that sometimes people do not have complete data does not mean that the CDC is lying.

I didn’t say that the CDC lied, I said Fauci has admitted that its recommendations aren’t always based on the science. In fact, it was Fauci’s unwillingness to lie about it that has brought it to light, kudos to him for that at least.
#15160766
Texas AG is suing Austin for keeping their mask requirements going after the state lifted it. So much for "let the local communities decide whats best for them" conservatism.
#15160767
Doug64 wrote:No, the CDC does not make decisions, it provides data and makes recommendations. That those recommendations are often followed is because of the belief, now in doubt, that they are based on the science.


Then Fauci is discussing decisions that you are now claiming do not exist.

Either they make decisions, or your article is nonsensical.

In this case, Fauci was asked about the science behind the CDC assertion that it isn’t safe for those that have received both doses of the vaccination to travel.


Is the CDC deciding this or recommending something? What are they saying?

In any case, there is no data because we are discussing a brand new situation. And something has to be decided, so whoever makes a decision will do so with ho data.

I didn’t say that the CDC lied, I said Fauci has admitted that its recommendations aren’t always based on the science. In fact, it was Fauci’s unwillingness to lie about it that has brought it to light, kudos to him for that at least.


Yes, you said they perpetuated a fraud against the nation. You claimed that this quote from Fauci shows that the CDC sometimes makes decisions even when there is no data and that this somehow brings all they have ever said into question. But if you are now saying that this is not the case, so be it.

Still, I fail to see why the Washington Times thought this would be damning.
#15160783
Rancid wrote:Texas AG is suing Austin for keeping their mask requirements going after the state lifted it. So much for "let the local communities decide whats best for them" conservatism.

Except that the governor didn’t say “let the local communities decide what’s best for them,” he said that private individuals and businesses could make their own decisions on what risks to take. Austin has apparently said, “No, they can’t.”

@Pants-of-dog, I’ve explained my reasoning and the article is in straightforward English. When you’re willing to discuss what I actually posted, let me know.
#15160786
Doug64 wrote:Except that the governor didn’t say “let the local communities decide what’s best for them,” he said that private individuals and businesses could make their own decisions on what risks to take. Austin has apparently said, “No, they can’t.”


Good for Austin.

@Pants-of-dog, I’ve explained my reasoning and the article is in straightforward English. When you’re willing to discuss what I actually posted, let me know.


As far as I can tell, your argument is that the CDC should not be trusted to make decisions since they sometimes make decisions without complete data.

So I pointed out that all humans must necessarily make decisions based on incomplete data, and so this is an idd attack for the Washington Times to make.
#15160789
Doug64 wrote:Except that the governor didn’t say “let the local communities decide what’s best for them,” he said that private individuals and businesses could make their own decisions on what risks to take. Austin has apparently said, “No, they can’t.”


The locals and most businesses here want the requirement because it has reduced the incidents of those idiots that throw a fit when they are asked to put on a mask or leave (we already went through that in the summer before the state mandate was put in place). The very toddlers that cry and whine about wearing masks, are the people making it hard for businesses to require masks without the help of the government mandate. Fucking morons. Maybe if these fucktards stopped demanding they be allowed to shop at these places without a mask even if its store policy for shoppers to wear a mask, this whole thing wouldn't an issue (Ironically, they are against property rights when they demand this... idiots). So no. your thinking is wrong. These conservatives have no principles to stand on.

I invite you to find data that say's Austin residents and business owners don't want the mask requirement.
#15161150
@Pants-of-dog, personally, I don't think scientific organizations should be offering recommendations at all, they should limit themselves to providing data along with an assessment of the data's reliability and leave the decisions to the politicians that are actually elected. But if they are going to be making recommendations to those making the actual decisions, those recommendations need to be based on the science and nothing else. It is their status as scientists--and therefore the science--that gives those recommendations weight.

Rancid wrote:I invite you to find data that say's Austin residents and business owners don't want the mask requirement.

If Austin residents and business owners want to continue using/requiring masks, they are free to do so. But what Governor Abbott is saying is that they don't have the luxury of having the government provide them cover for the decision. If they as private citizens choose to maintain it, the responsibility for the decision--and its impact--is theirs.

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So the Los Angeles Unified School District is trying to avoid the heat from not reopening in-person learning by pretending to re-open in-person learning. Here's some excerpts from the LA Times's report (emphasis added):

Los Angeles students are a critical step closer to a return to campus beginning in mid-April under a tentative agreement reached Tuesday between the teachers union and the L.A. Unified School District, signaling a new chapter in an unprecedented year of coronavirus-forced school closures....

Under the agreement, members of United Teachers Los Angeles, which represents teachers, nurses, counselors and librarians, would not have to return to work until they have had access to COVID-19 vaccinations and have achieved maximum immunity — a period of up to six weeks. That duration period — plus the amount of time needed to get vaccination appointments — is the main driver of a district timetable aiming to restart elementary schools on April 19.

The union has not signed off on a specific return date....

At the elementary level, students would attend five days a week in either a morning or early-afternoon session. The staggered schedule would allow for smaller classes, in keeping with state recommendations to keep students at least six feet apart.

Middle and high schools would resume with even starker changes. Students would attend two days a week on a staggered schedule. But instead of moving from class to class, students would remain in their advisory classroom — similar to a homeroom base — for the full day.

From their advisory class, students would carry out distance learning essentially as they are doing now; they would be trading online-from-home for online-from-a-classroom under the supervision of a teacher. Students would then “move” from class to class online — as they are doing now at home.

Advisory teachers would have their own schedule of classes — which they would conduct from school, but not necessarily to the students in front of them. To avoid mutual distraction, students would be provided with noise-cancelling headsets.


So basically, elementary school students would get continual half-days, but at least it's actual in-person learning. the middle and high school students have to continue remote learning, the only real difference being the location and supervisor. So they're going to have those students hating remote learning even more than they do now, and unlikely to perform much if any better than before. I guess the teachers' unions are hoping that if they get the students out of the homes, their parents won't care about the "school" experience their kids are suffering. I suspect they are going to be sadly disappointed, and so will Governor Newsome--now almost certainly facing a recall election driven entirely by unhappiness with his handling of the Wuhan virus (and his blatant hypocrisy).


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Also, while "President" Biden is promising that if we'll all be good little boys and girls we'll get to have small, family gatherings for Independence Day, his immigration system is releasing large numbers of undocumented aliens testing positive for the Wuhan virus into the country--those that we're bothering to test at all.

Migrants flooding across U.S. border with as much as 10 times the COVID-19 rate as Americans
Migrant families coming across the border are testing positive for the coronavirus at between three and 10 times the rate of the U.S. population, according to a Washington Times survey of jurisdictions that are doing the testing.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement told The Times that the families it is processing are between 5% and 10% positive.

In Brownsville, Texas, the city says it is seeing a 12% positive rate.

And in Harlingen, near Brownsville, the homeless shelter where families are being dropped off reported a group at 25% positive for COVID-19. That’s more than seven times the current positivity test rate for the U.S. public, which Johns Hopkins University’s tracker shows at 3.5%.

Pastor Bill Reagan, who runs Loaves and Fishes, the Harlingen shelter, said they’re doing the best they can with the situation.

“It would be best if Customs and Border Protection decides to release certain individuals into the United States that they thoroughly quarantine them for the 14 days and test them and only release those that rest negative,” he said. “But I also understand they’re overwhelmed.”

Some of the families are being quarantined. A senior ICE official told The Times that those in its custody who test positive are able to be held in isolation, though he said they do try to get nonprofits to help take some of them.

ICE is only able to take about 100 of those family members a day. Those on the ground in Texas say there are between 500 and 800 people coming across daily, and they are being farmed out to local shelters that don’t have the power to compel someone to stick around if they don’t want to.

In Harlingen, migrants were dropped at Loaves and Fishes, the city’s homeless shelter.

Mr. Reagan told The Washington Times they saw two groups, both last month. The first on Feb. 18 was 49 people, and it had a COVID positivity rate of 25%. The second group arrived on Feb. 19 and Mr. Reagan said they came so late that they weren’t tested.

He said even when the newly arrived migrants are tested, that doesn’t catch everyone.

“I think this is probably true for all the places people have been released from Border Patrol custody. All of them have been in close quarters for a long period of time. They all come together on the bus, they’ve all been detained together, and I would suppose on their trip from Central America they have been mixing with all kinds of people,” he said.

“Say they come to us on a particular day — they may just have been exposed that day or a day earlier and not test positive because of that,” he said.

At the White House, press secretary Jen Psaki said Thursday that the federal government has offered Texas a system to test and isolate, but she said Gov. Greg Abbott refused to allow it.

“Their proposal and agreement would cover 100 percent of the expense, testing, isolation and quarantine. But Governor Abbott has decided to reject that,” she said.

A reporter pressed Ms. Psaki on why the federal government would block a traveler from entering at an airport without a COVID-19 test or quarantine procedures, but does not apply that same rule to migrants who break the law to jump the border.

“Well, again, I can just describe to you what our policies are,” the spokeswoman replied.

The White House has changed its version of events over the weeks. Originally Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said the process was for ICE to test everyone.

Ms. Psaki last week said their policy was actually for “COVID-19 testing to be done at the state and local level and with the help of NGOs and local governments.”

But thousands of migrants have still been released without any testing, said Sheriff A.J. Louderback in Jackson County, Texas. He said Ms. Psaki was misleading the public.

“The lying is starting to bother me,” he said. “This whole piece of criminal and irresponsible government needs to be stopped, one way or the other. Either with public pressure or legal means.”

There are five broad categories of border jumpers at this point.

The first is migrants who can be expelled under the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s coronavirus pandemic health order, which the Trump administration issued and the Biden team has kept in place.

The second is migrants who had been mired in Mexico under the Trump administration’s “Remain in Mexico” policy, officially known as the Migrant Protection Protocols, which the Biden team did cancel.

Some 25,000 people who were part of MPP are now in the process of being admitted. The U.N.’s International Organization for Migration (IOM) is overseeing COVID testing of those folks in Mexico, and migrants are only supposed to show up for admittance once they’re in the clear.

A third group consists of the unaccompanied minors, who are supposed to be quickly transferred from Customs and Border Protection to the federal Health and Human Services Department. Dona Abbott, senior advisor at Bethany Christian Services, which helps resettle the children, said during a virtual event hosted by the National Immigration Forum that the children are entering at a rate of about 435 a day.

The children have overwhelmed CBP, leaving thousands stuck in border processing facilities longer than the legal limit of three days.

A fourth group of migrants is those who jump the border, aren’t expelled, and are processed by ICE. They are mostly families, and they are being tested and, if positive for COVID, quarantined. A senior ICE official told The Times they are able to process 80 to 100 a day.

A fifth group — again mostly families — is being caught and released at the border without testing by the government.

Some of those, particularly in Texas, are being tested by local governments and nonprofits such as Mr. Reagan’s shelter.

But not all.

In Cochise County, Arizona, migrants are being dropped at a Texaco, a Walmart and a Safeway. In Yuma County, it was a Jack in the Box restaurant.

Both U.S. officials and nonprofit group leaders said families are being released because Mexico has limited its cooperation in recent weeks. Mexican authorities will no longer accept back families with children ages 6 and under.

“Those families, we’re getting between approximately 500 and 800 every single day,” Sister Norma Pimentel, executive director of Catholic Charities of the Rio Grande Valley, said during the National Immigration Forum’s virtual event.

Sister Pimentel’s organization is doing the testing for McAllen, one of the major population centers in deep southern Texas.

She and her team have not responded to repeated inquiries from The Times over the last two weeks about her operations and the COVID positivity rate for the migrants she is receiving.

In Brownsville, another major city, Communications Director Felipe Romero said they’ve tested 1,700 migrants as of Tuesday, and 204 tested positive. That works out to a 12% rate.

The most recent week of March 4 through March 9, however, was lower, with a 9.25% positive rate.
Last edited by Doug64 on 14 Mar 2021 20:08, edited 1 time in total.
#15161153
And here's the latest weekly numbers:

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And two more states have crossed the 90% line for re-opening schools, Tennessee, and West Virginia. California, Maryland, and Oregon still remain in the 10-20% range.

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