[ingliz]

Care to explain how I'm into identity politics yet?

You have abandoned the class point of view and are playing the game of the ruling class by putting what divides us above everything else, ignoring the roots of oppression in class society, advancing the sectoral interests of this or that group to the detriment of the united class struggle.

[skinster]

You have abandoned the class point of view and are playing the game of the ruling class by putting what divides us above everything else, ignoring the roots of oppression in class society, advancing the sectoral interests of this or that group to the detriment of the united class struggle.

Incorrect.

If I was for identity politics I'd be kissing ass to men claiming to be women, like you do. I am firmly opposed to it though, as is obvious to anyone who reads me.

Maybe you should read this to get a less confused understanding than what you currently have.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Pants-of-dog

Marxists are very keen on theory. And theoretically, identity politics is a no-no.

While I understand that the theory opposes identity politics, I also know a decent amount of Marxists who have approached and practiced Marxism from a non-theoretical basis; i.e. working class people who were and are trying to overthrow capitalism.

What they figured out and taught me was that we need way more than just theory. We need significant portions of almost all sectors of society to work with us. This means working with diverse groups, who have their own struggles with inequality, as well as being working class.

It is unrealistic to expect these people to take on the class struggle when we choose to ignore (or support) the inequality facing these people.

The far right has no problem with identity politics, obviously, since their approach is divisiveness. The current wave of opposition to trans equality and drag shows has become quite the recruitment tool for them.

https://www.advocate.com/news/neo-nazis-florida-drag

A neo-Nazi group in Florida says the right-wing hysteria about drag performances has been an effective recruitment tool.

“What we have seen is certain types of activism definitely gets interest and recruitment up. And that’s where like the drag queen shit — like everybody wants to be a part of the team shutting that down,” Josh Nunes, leader of National Socialist Florida, recently told NPR.

The NPR report describes the group laser-projecting an image of a swastika and a cross onto a high-rise building in Jacksonville, along with messages such as one to Florida’s governor reading, “Why are child friendly drag shows legal? @ Ron DeSantis.” Actually, DeSantis has been a proponent of restricting drag shows, but National Socialist Florida is trying to push him even farther.

….(article continues)….

[ingliz]

@skinster

The Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist)?

If you are associated with this band of reactionary arseholes - kissing Nigel Farage's ring is not a good look - it's no wonder you are confused. But we can't have you expelled from your tiny clique of transphobes - Expulsion is party policy, isn't it, if you admit your mistakes and recant?

Where would you put yourself?

[skinster]

Is that Latin?

And what's with the constant ad-homs now? Did you read any of the paper and is there anything you disagree with? Or has kissing the asses of men who pretend to be woman destroyed your ability to debate?

I mean, clearly it's the latter. But if you want a debate, I'm here for it. If you're just going to use buzzwords in an attempt to sound intelligent even after your sorry display from earlier ( ) I won't waste my time.

[ingliz]

@skinster

What buzzwords are they?

I read the paper, and as expected, it was nothing more than a slew of contradictions wrapped up in pseudo-Marxist platitudes.





Edit 2: My finger slipped, so I needed Edit 3

[skinster]

"transphobes"

No such thing exists and you as a pensioner should know better than to get yourself tangled up in a young person's fad.

Are you going to deal with what you disagree from the paper that explains why you were incorrect in accusing ME of being into identity politics - like transgender ideology - or are you just going to call the writers and anyone else names and think that makes up for your own nonsense from earlier?

[ingliz]

Transphobe?

Didn't you call the trans community rapists, pedophiles, and groomers to a man? Strangely, the women seemed to get a free pass.

I'd be careful there as your party doesn't let you play favorites.

[skinster]

Yes, there's no such thing as trans or transphobes, unless you're part of a delusional cult.

[ingliz]

there's no such thing as trans or transphobes

You are mistaken, it seems.

Transphobia consists of negative attitudes, feelings, or actions towards transgender people or transness in general. Transphobia can include fear, aversion, hatred, violence, or anger towards people who do not conform to social gender expectations.

— Chakraborti et al. (2009). Hate Crime: Impact, Causes and Responses

[ingliz]

I believe we should strive to be as broad a movement as possible when organizing and educating the masses. Not that I am expecting pinko liberals to rally to our cause, but maybe we can hope, if we can convince them we are the least bad option, they will stay neutral when it all blows up.

Ostracising a minority of a minority may seem inconsequential. The numbers are piddling when all is said and done. But hate spreads. And if we are seen as no better than any other arsehole, we are fucked.

We are a minority too.

[skinster]

lol

[QatzelOk]

You have abandoned the class point of view and are playing the game of the ruling class by putting what divides us above everything else, ignoring the roots of oppression in class society, advancing the sectoral interests of this or that group to the detriment of the united class struggle.

I would say that Identity Politics is one of the games of the ruling class.

By getting people emotional about their particular "niche" and "how badly it is treated," the Ruling Class are able to divide the plebs into individual atoms sitting angrily and hurtfully in front of screens.

Rather than identify with the generalized oppression of a system built out of economic exploitation, the Ruling Class tries to sell dick-chopping technology to teenagers by telling them "it's about accepting who you really are" (for a few years).

And then the Ruling Class creates a social "debate" that is full of fire and good intentions run amuck.

It's garbage, but luckily dick-chopping "liberation" narratives are easy to see through... unless your IQ has been lowered too much by lead in gasoline.

[Pants-of-dog]

The literal governor of Florida with the rest of the ruling class in Florida are all happily dividing the working class by popularizing transphobia.

Even the neo-Nazis are openly saying this because they are openly benefiting from it.

[ingliz]

dick-chopping technology to teenagers

There is no dick-chopping until you are at least 18 in the 'free at the point of use NHS' UK.

@Fasces quotes a government agency saying it's nearer 30 in the for-profit US.

What are you whining about?

Is it because the nasty trans people seem to have triggered the latent homophobia in all morally upright citizens - to use @Godstud's argument excusing violence - and your friends are collateral damage?

[Godstud]

@ingliz You lie, as cultists are wont. I do not call for violence against anyone. I never have.

You are the ones calling for violence against children, to alter them, groom them, and transition them into your ideology.

[ingliz]

lol

Yes, I was taking the piss. There is no organization, no mass party, just LARPers playing a game in a room above a pub of a Thursday evening.

When the Communist Party of Great Britain was dissolved in the early 90s, it splintered into four groups, and they split again a few years later. So, you are the rump of a rump, and the biggest arse became a New Labour think tank.

[skinster]

I would say that Identity Politics is one of the games of the ruling class.

It is. But some dork thought my opposition to it is the same as the ruling class's promotion of it. And since he got it wrong but scored a spectacular own-goal, he wants to pretend he didn't basically admit he's on the same side of what the ruling class promote.

Rather than identify with the generalized oppression of a system built out of economic exploitation, the Ruling Class tries to sell dick-chopping technology to teenagers by telling them "it's about accepting who you really are" (for a few years).

Exactly. And understanding the inevitable conflict their ideology would create since a lot of us normal people are generally opposed to medical experiments, eugenics and dick-chopping, particularly when it happens to kids who don't have the understanding of such irreversible life-changing decisions. And on top of that, Big Pharma is making billions off all of this, but Big Pharma is the friend of the so-called left today.

It's garbage, but luckily dick-chopping "liberation" narratives are easy to see through... unless your IQ has been lowered too much by lead in gasoline.

Indeed. Much brainwashing and institutional capture has convinced people to believe and virtue-signal for an idea that people can identify out of their sex and getting sterilised and mutilated before your brain has even fully developed is...good, actually.

@Fasces quotes a government agency saying it's nearer 30 in the for-profit US.

As I pointed out, the study is eight years old. Since then, this ideology ran on steroids and reached its peak in popularity which has allowed mastectomies on young girls as young as age 13 in some states.

And if we don't even go into the genital mutilation but consider the sterilisation aspect, I'm pretty sure you read the study of how minors are being all but banned from going on the experiment because of the many concerns medical experts in this field have had. Here is a list from Denmark, who joined Britain, Norway, Sweden, New Zealand and some U.S. states on why they banned these drugs:

1. Medication/ethical uncertainties of providing children with life-altering interventions in the context of very limited understanding
2. Growing rates of detransition and lack of research into that
3. Profound uncertainty about long-term outcomes
4. Insufficient evidence
5. Growing evidence of harm
6. The high rate of psychiatric comorbidities
7. Social influence
8. A more cautious approach until more evidence of beneficial effects is available
9. Irreversible changes which reduce fertility of which the degree of reversibility remains unknown
10. Contraindications to hormones: abuse, suicidal ideation/self-harm, severe psychological distress and worrisome somatic conditions (eg cancer, thromboembolic disease).”
11. Growing reports of regret
Source

What are you whining about?

What are you whining about? Why is this the only topic you talk about on here now? Considering you kept repeating you didn't care. You seem to only not care about the part that allows the kids to destroy their bodies, but demand that they should be able to do that. Maybe you should see a doctor about these obvious mental health problems you're suffering..

latent homophobia

At the women's events that I attend who oppose this medical scam and denial of reality and attack on women's rights, alongside the many mothers and included within them, are lesbians. So spare that crap about homophobia, particularly because the gay guy in this room is calling this bollocks out for what it is. And communists I know seek to remove themselves from Big Pharma's T in that acronym:

[Pants-of-dog]

Many gay people did exactly that: distance themselves from trans people and other marginalized people.

Now they are caught in a trap of their own making, since the ire and hatred they supported is now also engulfing them.

[QatzelOk]

...Is it because the nasty trans people seem to have triggered the latent homophobia in all morally upright citizens ... and your friends are collateral damage?

All humans are collateral damage.

And while homosexuality has been around for millions of years and is thus natural, trans-oriented marketing of products and surgeries... are a product of late-stage capitalism and decadence.

And the people who stand to make money off these products really don't care about the collateral damage. They just want their money.

Just like the arms dealers who have put the West into bed with Nazis in Ukraine. They just want their money.