Israel-Palestinian War 2023 - Page 104 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues and parties in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

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#15297664
wat0n wrote:If there's no mass exodus, how can there be any ethnic cleansing?


This is a huge lie. Is it really "worth it" to do this to your own reputation, wat0n?

Again, sounds like a dog whistle to justify committing massacres and mass rapes against Israelis.


So in your opinion, the ethnic-cleansing of Gaza would justify sanctions or even war againt Israel, therefore "it isn't happening" in your texts?

Is this how reality works? Or do you live in texts?
#15297665
QatzelOk wrote:This is a huge lie. Is it really "worth it" to do this to your own reputation, wat0n?


How many have left Gaza? I hope you won't be so disingenuous as to suggest letting civilians leave combat zones is the same as ethnic cleansing - if so, then there's also ethnic cleansing going on within Israel as some 500,000 Israelis living in the southern part of the country have been displaced to the north.

QatzelOk wrote:So in your opinion, the ethnic-cleansing of Gaza would justify sanctions or even war againt Israel, therefore "it isn't happening" in your texts?

Is this how reality works? Or do you live in texts?


No, lying about the situation on the other hand sounds like a way to justify murder - which you have ITT.
#15297673
Israelis do not commit settler colonialism because they are evil any mire than Canadians do.

They do it because the system is deliberately set up that way as a way of securing land and resources. If you want to ensure that inly your in group can control the land and resources, it is logical to remove any other groups that may challenge said ownership.
#15297695
Colonialism has existed in all the time humans have existed, @Pants-of-dog. You're just virtue signaling, AGAIN. Before the French and British came to the area now know as Canada, the natives of the area did this to each other.

There is evidence that Israelis were there BEFORE Palestinians(who were merely nomadic tribes). So it would be the Palestinians doing the colonizing.

@Sandzak Israel does not target cildren. Hamas puts the children they murder anywhere that the IDF goes, and idiots like you believe the propaganda. Hamas has stated that all Palestinians are martyrs for their cause, which is Jewish genocide.
#15297697
@Godstud Both sides are sick... both Nations have the codex of revange and retribution...


They will never find peace.

One side has to forgive and ask for justice instead for revange.


Israel has with its reckless bombing created Millions of a new Hamas Generation.


But you have to admit in West-Bank where the Palestinians try coexistence what they get as reward is Settler Apartheid
#15297700
Indeed, both nations have gotten into a cycle of revenge and distrust. That's why, after Hamas is dealt with, Israel must be compelled (pressured) to hand Gaza to an international peacekeeping force.
#15297701
Which is it? Is Palestine its own country or is it a separate one? You seem to want Palestinians to have rights in a country in which they are not citizens(i.e. Israel).

Israel not giving status to people of a foreign country, is normal. If Palestine is part of Israel, you could make the apartheid argument... but it's not. The argument is bullshit.

Israel brokered peace in 2005 by removing Israeli settlers from Gaza. The Palestinians accepted this, made Hamas their leaders, then started a terrorist war against Israel that has continued to this day. Israel has acted only in reaction to this.

Oct 7 they attacked Israel killing men, women and children. It was an overt terrorist attack. There was no justification for it. Defending Hamas is supporting butchers and murderers. Hamas started a war, and this is the same as saying Russians are victims in the Ukraine.
#15297702
wat0n wrote:Indeed, both nations have gotten into a cycle of revenge and distrust. That's why, after Hamas is dealt with, Israel must be compelled (pressured) to hand Gaza to an international peacekeeping force.



This is a good proposal...
#15297708
Beren wrote:I wonder if they're just bluffing, but what would suspending the peace treaty mean exactly anyway?


Look at the situation in '67. The Jordanians didn't really want to go to war with Israel (and lose the west bank) but public passions were running so high they felt they had no choice; the alternative would've been the fall of Hussein's regime. If or when the palestinians are thrown out of the territories in significant numbers, Jordan would be in basically the same kind of situation; it would have to do something. They wouldn't actually go to war (now or soon) even if expulsion "is a declaration of war." But they'd have to suspend the peace treaty, effectively ending diplomatic and economic relations. I think the same would apply to Egypt and the gulf states. Even if there's no formal abrogation of treaties, they'd be dead for good, I think, because the crisis may last a long time and Israel wouldn't meet the conditions for renewed relations, like taking back the expelled and negotiating seriously for a palestinian state.
#15297709
Godstud wrote:this is the same as saying Russians are victims in the Ukraine.

The Russians are victims in the Ukraine War - 14,000 ethnic-Russian speakers were murdered by Zelenskiy's neo-Nazi paramilitaries in Donbas before Russia stepped in to stop the slaughter.
#15297710
Godstud wrote:Hamas has stated that all Palestinians are martyrs for their cause, which is Jewish genocide.

There you go again, with that filthy Liberal lie. The cause of Hamas is not the genocide of Jews. This is the pathetic fantasy world that so many Liberals need to live in. The pathetic narcissistic need to pretend that Hamas's cause is not the restoration of Palestine to Muslim rule.

Of course in his heart of hearts, the Liberal knows that he is a narcissistic hypocrite. Not all but the bulk of The Liberals are demanding that every inch of 2014 Ukrainian territory be returned to Ukraine, despite it only being Ukrainian for twenty years. Hamas's demand is simply that every inch of 1917 Palestine be returned to Muslim rule, territory that had been under Muslim rule for 600 years and mostly under Muslim rule for nearly 1300 years.

Even the Nazis cause was not the genocide of the Jews It became a cause of the Nazi apparatus, but at no point was it "the cause". Hitler did not invade Poland or the Soviet Union, so as he could genocide the Jews that lived there. Yes there was Jew hatred in Germany prior to the First World War, but hatred of Jews in Germany only really took off after the Balfour declaration and the German Revolution of 1918. These things were the product of Germany's conflict with France, Britain, Russia and the United States. The great magnification of hatred towards Jews we saw in Germany was the product of Germany's geo political competition, it was not its cause.

For me it is simple, when Hamas demand the return of every inch of Palestine, I can just say no. It is easy for me, because I'm not try to protect some phony moralistic absolutism. In the same way I have no problem saying no to Zelensky's demand for the return of every inch of 2014 Ukraine. I do not suggest we supply Hamas with arms. And by the same I want us to cut off the supply of every single bullet to Ukraine and till as such time as Zelensky starts making more reasonable demands.
Last edited by Rich on 07 Dec 2023 11:59, edited 1 time in total.
#15297711
starman2003 wrote:But they'd have to suspend the peace treaty, effectively ending diplomatic and economic relations.

Whatever suspending the peace treaty means, it'd be supposed to be temporary. That wording suggests it'd be resumed sooner or later anyway, so Israel may assume they'd eventually get away with the ethnic cleansing rather intact. They could even consider it a free pass actually.
#15297712
Culture matters, but in honest analysis its very difficult to disentangle culture from context.

Its rightful that we should be critical of both Sunni Muslim and Orthodox Jewish culture. Both are horrendously bigoted and Orthodox Judaism is irredeemably racist. So we might then jump from that to blaming everything that's wrong in Palestine on one or both of those cultures. But hang on a minute, what about the anti terror operation of the Marionite forces in Beirut in 1982. Was that really so much more "humane" than 10/7 or the Israeli operation in Gaza? Or what about the Buddhist anti terror operations in western Myanmar? Even there , there have been suggestions, that protection of human rights may on occasion have fallen short of the highest standards.
#15297714
Rich wrote:There you go again, with that filthy Liberal lie. The cause of Hamas is not the genocide of Jews.
Hamas leaders have clearly stated that that it IS their cause. Go on living your lie if you want, but it's quite foolish. Ignore reality. :lol:

Russians inside Ukraine, @ingliz. I was referring to the Russians who invaded Ukraine. I support neither side in that conflict but you cannot call an aggressor a victim, as Rich does. That good ole victim narrative that he hates so much, is what he's employing. "Cultural Marxism", @Rich. You're using its tactics! :knife:
#15297722
@Godstud Since the Foundation of Israel the Palestinians are suffering under Occupation and a Jewish Apartheid. Gaza was before a huge prison similar to Warsaw Ghetto just because they are Muslims you have no compassion. You are a religous racist!

The Likud and the Hamas have to be forced by UN to negotiate a peace. We need UN-Peacekeepers in Israel-Palestine.

The Hamas should fight like Saladin who spared the innocents and was even in Christian literature written as hero. The Bosnians fought this way and menaged to win.

Israel is currently producing millions of Hamas supporters and fighters with carpetbombing.

Negotiations even with terrorists work, Al Qaida and Taliban made peace with the USA.
Last edited by Skynet on 07 Dec 2023 15:24, edited 1 time in total.
#15297723
@Sandzak If Hamas wasn't constantly lobbing missiles at Israel I might find your argument has merit. As such... NOT.
#15297724
Godstud wrote:@Sandzak If Hamas wasn't constantly lobbing missiles at Israel I might find your argument has merit. As such... NOT.



Gaza looks like Hiroshima.

Israel is also braking international law by bringing in settlers in occupied areas.
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