[QatzelOk]

...Gaza could become a tourist attraction if the conflict ends...

Yes, a post-genocide tourist attraction, featuring: "the Jeffrey Dahmer center, where visitors can drill holes into the wax copies of famous non-caucasians."

Will there be stacked piles of Palestinian baby shoes?

[Pants-of-dog]

If anyone wants to show an example of the IDF and Israeli government trying to avoid civilian casualties in this war, they are welcome to provide an example.

We have evidence that the IDF has bombed the homes of humanitarian aid workers. We saw they bombed hospitals. They bombed refugee camps.

There is no doubt that these bombings were intentionally done. The justification is “human shields”, which has been shown to be a semantic tool to justify bombing civilians.

[wat0n]

Warnings for civilians to evacuate, including dropping leaflets, phone calls, so-called "roof knocking", the establishment of humanitarian corridors, are all evidence of efforts to minimize civilian casualties.

Calling for those civilians to gather around buildings that have been announced to be targeted are examples of shielding and other efforts to maximize incidental civilian casualties.

Yes, a post-genocide tourist attraction, featuring: "the Jeffrey Dahmer center, where visitors can drill holes into the wax copies of famous non-caucasians."

Will there be stacked piles of Palestinian baby shoes?

Or actually a nice Mediterranean city they could welcome tourists from the rest of the Islamic world to.

[Pants-of-dog]

The safe zones are not safe. Misusing humanitarian law in this way is a deliberate tactic that shows intent. The IDF and Israeli government have declared regions and corridors safe and then bombed those regions and corridors.

https://www.ft.com/content/95c5fcf1-c75 ... 4bbff24736

Just a day after Israel ordered 1.1mn civilians to leave northern Gaza, two blasts on Friday destroyed multiple cars driving along one of the enclave’s main roads south.

Videos of the aftermath verified by the Financial Times show 12 bodies of men, women and children in Salah-ad-Din street, which Israel later designated a “safe route”. One of the explosions rocks an ambulance as it attempts to leave the scene with some of the injured.

Hamas pinned blame on Israel for striking a civilian convoy, claiming the attack killed more than 70 people and injured 200. Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conricus, a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces, denied the allegations, telling the Financial Times the IDF didn’t “strike any location”. “Hamas is behind this, is using the death of Palestinian civilians for its vile political purposes.”

Such disputes over civilian deaths are a regular feature of modern warfare, especially in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. To assess the competing claims, the FT has worked with Airwars, a conflict monitoring group, as well as munitions experts to shed light on the nature of the attack, its timing, aftermath and the type of explosive used.

While assertions have been made by both sides about the incident and death toll, the available evidence is less clear. However, analysis of the video footage appears to rule out most explanations aside from an Israeli strike.

….

When viewed alongside the misuse of the term “human shield”, there seems to be a pattern of the IDF and Israeli government deliberately misusing humanitarian terminology in order to whitewash these killings of civilians. This suggest intent.

[wat0n]

Safe zones are indeed not safe if Hamas takes over and starts firing at Israelis from there.

It is interesting you ignored all the other measures to reduce civilian casualties.

Again, why would Israel give up the obvious tactical advantage of surprise if it did not want to reduce civilian casualties by warning everyone in advance where it will strike?

[Pants-of-dog]

Deliberately ignoring evidence showing IDF air strikes against evacuee convoys along safe corridors is not an argument. Since there is no refutation of the claim that the IDF and Israeli government are bombing safe zones and corridors, this is not valid as an example of the IDF and Israeli government trying to avoid civilian casualties.

No other example was given.

[KurtFF8]

It is interesting you ignored all the other measures to reduce civilian casualties.

There's one thing that can stop the civilian deaths: a ceasefire.

[skinster]

If anyone wants to show an example of the IDF and Israeli government trying to avoid civilian casualties in this war, they are welcome to provide an example.

Trying to avoid civilian casualties





70% of the now, over 32,000 killed in the last 5 months are women and children. How does one avoid civilian casualties when that is what makes up the vast majority of the Gazan population and where the Israeli terrorist forces bomb indiscriminately?

Why do Zionists attempt to pretend they avoid casualties when people have eyes and can see how people are bombed indiscriminately, how hospitals are bombed and raided, how refugee shelters are bombed, how mosques and churches are bombed, etc...

The criminals don't have any qualms with admitting their war crimes on camera either..

[Pants-of-dog]

Not even @wat0n denies that the IDF and Israeli government are deliberately targeting UNRWA workers and buildings.

The justification is that they secretly work for Hamas.

[skinster]

Confessions extracted under torture...seems legit.


Sam Husseini reported on that here.

Also,

Defunding UNRWA Was Never About Hamas
The refugee agency is a reminder that Palestinian refugees exist and have inalienable political rights—a truth the Israeli government finds deeply inconvenient.

Ahmad Alhaaj, a 90-year old Palestinian, was displaced from his village of Al-Sawafir Al-Sharqiya at gunpoint by a Zionist militia in 1948. He lived his entire life in a rental house in the hope that he would one day return, but passed away on January 17 in the north of Gaza under Israel’s siege.

Alhaaj was among the 70% of Palestinians, including my family, who remain refugees of the 1947 – 1948 war. The UN created the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) in 1949 to support those refugees, after Israel refused to implement UN Resolution 194 mandating Palestinian refugees’ return and it became clear to the world that the their plight would not end soon. Today, 4.7 million refugees like Alhaaj turn to the UNRWA for basic necessities like shelter, food and education. I attended UNRWA schools, and without the free access to schooling and healthcare UNRWA gave me and my family, I would not be holding a PhD today.

The agency is now under a fierce attack by the Israeli government, which aims to dismantle it based on allegations that Israeli intelligence has so far failed to prove.

t is no surprise that the Israeli government launched this latest attack on UNRWA, an agency it has long smeared as an arm of Hamas. It wants to eradicate UNRWA because it sustains millions of refugees who are living on Israel’s doorstep and demanding the right to return — or, in the words of the Israeli foreign minister to the UN, because UNRWA ​“perpetuates the refugee problem.”

The Israeli government claims that a dozen UNRWA employees played a role in Hamas’ October 7 attacks. Once Israel officially announced the accusations on January 26, countries such as the United States, Germany and the United Kingdom rushed to suspend their funds to UNRWA. These countries didn’t stop their arms to Israel, however, when the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled on the same day that Israel is plausibly engaging in genocide in the Gaza Strip.

The way these countries jumped to cut UNRWA aid, even before investigating the Israeli government’s claims, suggest that they did so under Israeli pressure. According to news outlets that obtained copies of an Israeli intelligence dossier shared with donor nations, the dossier contained no evidence, only allegations. UNRWA says some of its employees were forced to confess to taking part in the attacks. A UN investigation has released no findings yet.

Even if the Israeli intelligence claims are proven to be true, this should in no way justify defunding UNRWA. No country with a sound foreign policy would cut aid from a people who are starving to death. Instead, UNRWA should be allowed to proceed according to its own policy on neutrality, which bans political membership. And similarly, if the ICJ finds that Israel is committing genocide, Western countries should proceed according to international law, under which they are obliged to prevent genocide and punish those who commit it.

For Palestinians, attacks against UNRWA are not new. Israel has been lobbying for years to dismantle the agency and has targeted it during the attacks on Gaza. Israel ordered UNRWA employees to move to the south of Gaza when it issued a one-day evacuation order, instead of letting the agency remain to provide much-needed aid. Despite UN statutes protecting UN facilities and workers, Israel has killed 168 UNRWA staff, damaged 157 UNRWA facilities — many of them schools converted to shelters — and destroyed the UNRWA headquarters in Gaza City. In February, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu directed the Israel Defense Forces to begin replacing UNRWA with another international aid organization or a local one.

Why the focus on UNRWA? Part of the current attack on UNRWA is related to the larger attack on Palestinian education. Israeli forces have destroyed all Gaza universities and killed hundreds of its educators. UNRWA runs 183 schools and employs 9,443 teachers in Gaza, educating 291,000 students. Without Gaza’s schools and universities, the Israeli government seeks to plant a new narrative and erase any possibility of objection to its rule in Gaza.

But more importantly, the Israeli government wants to erase the question of Palestinian refugees. The destruction of Gaza, which hosts eight refugee camps, is part of this. 1.7 million of Gaza’s 2.3 million people are refugees, and Israel does not feel comfortable with their presence very close to its borders.

A good number of these refugees come from towns and villages in the Gaza envelope that now lie within Israel. Some of them, in fact, can see what used to be their towns and villages across the border.

UNRWA operates in these refugee camps and many of its staff live in them. The Israeli government has always seen the densely populated refugee camps as a threat, and it has targeted them countless times, starting with the Rafah and Khan Younis massacres of 1956. In 1969, Israel failed to implement a secret plan to send 60,000 people out of Gaza to Paraguay. Now, the Israeli government is intentionally destroying Gaza to make it unlivable for these refugees in an attempt to push them out.

Allowing the United States to build a floating seaport off the coast of Gaza and allowing France, Jordan, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates to airdrop aid are part of the same Israeli government plan: getting rid of UNRWA, which oversees aid delivery. Instead of airdrops, some of which killed starving Palestinians, Israel could simply allow thousands of aid trucks to pass through the Egyptian border.

The seaport will be constructed in the middle area of Gaza, where UNRWA no longer operates and Israel will not allow it to.

It is the responsibility of free people around the world to keep UNRWA functioning as long as the situation of Palestinian refugees, the most important issue for the Palestinian people, is not resolved. Countries that pledged more aid to UNRWA, such as Ireland, or restored it, like Canada, should be recognized. Countries that continue to withhold UNRWA funds, like the United States, should change their policy, because they are preventing much-needed aid from reaching the Palestinian people who are subjected to genocide in Gaza. Last, the UN should move to include UNRWA’s funding in its own budget to erase pressure by donor nations.

Palestinians like me, too, want to see an end to UNRWA, but only after the issue of Palestinian refugees is resolved according to international law and UN resolutions, and not before that. Dismantling the agency will not make us forget who we are and how we ended up in refugee camps in Gaza in 1948, just as Ahmad Alhaaj, who lived his entire life as a refugee in a rental house and participated in the 2018 Great March of Return, never forgot.
https://inthesetimes.com/article/defund ... bout-hamas

[KurtFF8]

Not even @wat0n denies that the IDF and Israeli government are deliberately targeting UNRWA workers and buildings.

The justification is that they secretly work for Hamas.

People like @wat0n openly support genocide against the people of Palestine, so it's not surprising to see them also support deliberate targeting of civilian organizations.

[wat0n]

Deliberately ignoring evidence showing IDF air strikes against evacuee convoys along safe corridors is not an argument. Since there is no refutation of the claim that the IDF and Israeli government are bombing safe zones and corridors, this is not valid as an example of the IDF and Israeli government trying to avoid civilian casualties.

No other example was given.

No such airstrikes ever happened.

This is Al Ahli part deux.

There's one thing that can stop the civilian deaths: a ceasefire.

...Which Hamas refuses and wasn't ordered by the ICJ.

Not even @wat0n denies that the IDF and Israeli government are deliberately targeting UNRWA workers and buildings.

The justification is that they secretly work for Hamas.

That has already been proven

One of the participants of the massacre is confirmed to have been an UNRWA worker. A hostage also testified to have been kept in the home of an UNRWA teacher.

People like @wat0n openly support genocide against the people of Palestine, so it's not surprising to see them also support deliberate targeting of civilian organizations.

I don't support genocide, but plenty of leftists like yourself support mass rape and mass murder.

[KurtFF8]

...Which Hamas refuses and wasn't ordered by the ICJ.

The UCJ just ordered Israel to allow food aid. I'm sure you'll engage in your acrobatics to selectively cite the ICJ now though.

One of the participants of the massacre is confirmed to have been an UNRWA worker. A hostage also testified to have been kept in the home of an UNRWA teacher.

Wait that's really the strongest argument against the UNRWA out there?

I don't support genocide, but plenty of leftists like yourself support mass rape and mass murder.

You are a supporter of the genocide against the Palestinian people. Every contribution of yours on this conflict here is an attempt to defend the regime that is actively carrying out a genocide.

[wat0n]

The UCJ just ordered Israel to allow food aid. I'm sure you'll engage in your acrobatics to selectively cite the ICJ now though.

Yes, and it did not order a ceasefire. Did you even read the order?

I also doubt that this order will have much of an effect.

Wait that's really the strongest argument against the UNRWA out there?

Yes, it means there are in fact terrorists who work there. The fact that its infrastructure is proven to have been used by Hamas does not help either.

You are a supporter of the genocide against the Palestinian people. Every contribution of yours on this conflict here is an attempt to defend the regime that is actively carrying out a genocide.

And yours are to support mass rapists and mass murderers.

[QatzelOk]

...You are a supporter of the genocide against the Palestinian people. Every contribution of yours on this conflict here is an attempt to defend the regime that is actively carrying out a genocide...

He keeps supporting the brutal, race-based genocide, and then tries to spit out "rapist!" at everyone who calls him out on this.

I hope wat0n has a private plane and lots of footage of pofo posters. Otherwise, he's just stabbing people while crying out in mock painTM

...

[skinster]

You are a supporter of the genocide against the Palestinian people. Every contribution of yours on this conflict here is an attempt to defend the regime that is actively carrying out a genocide.

Exactly. He thinks he can keep shouting "rape" as if people can't see through this Zionist bullshit. The curtain has finally come down now. You can't polish a turd, try as wat0n might.

And this is just the beginning. Time is not on Israel's side.

[KurtFF8]

Yes, and it did not order a ceasefire. Did you even read the order?

I also doubt that this order will have much of an effect.

First two sentences: "The ICJ didn't say that! It matters what the ICJ says!"

Third sentence "It doesn't matter what the ICJ says!"

Yes, it means there are in fact terrorists who work there. The fact that its infrastructure is proven to have been used by Hamas does not help either.

Much weaker accusations than I thought then. A single worker was possibly involved hardly means that the organization was in any way systematically a part of the Oct 7th attack.

And yours are to support mass rapists and mass murderers.

It's quite clear that no one here is taking this line of mud slinging by you seriously. You ought to just drop it.

[Pants-of-dog]

This is ridiculous.

Articles showing attacks on safe regions and corridors have been presented in this thread, with quotes. These air strikes and bombings have been independently verified. To ignore this evidence and claim the attacks did not happen is illogical and a denial of facts.

[wat0n]

First two sentences: "The ICJ didn't say that! It matters what the ICJ says!"

Third sentence "It doesn't matter what the ICJ says!"

More stupid arguments, I see.

It won't matter because the reasons that impede aid delivery (active combat and misappropriation) will remain unaddressed.

So Israel will comply, but the situation on the ground won't radically change.

Much weaker accusations than I thought then. A single worker was possibly involved hardly means that the organization was in any way systematically a part of the Oct 7th attack.

I've seen some people claim UNRWA, as an institution, participated in the attack which is quite extreme to make. But it is true that some of its employees did, meaning something went wrong with its hiring practices.

And yes, something is and has been wrong with it for some time. The tunnels found under it, which were used by Hamas to boot, did not appear by spontaneous generation. Neither did the rockets found under its schools going back as early as 2014.

And there's also its institutional refusal to teach about the Holocaust as early as 2009, funded by the UN:

Hamas slams UN over "Holocaust classes" in Gaza
By Reuters
August 30, 200911:46 AM CDT Updated 15 years ago

By Nidal al-Mughrabi
GAZA (Reuters) - Hamas condemned the United Nations Sunday, saying it planned to teach Palestinian children in the Gaza Strip about the Holocaust -- but the U.N. agency which runs schools in the enclave would not confirm any change.

Branding the Nazi genocide of the Jews "a lie invented by the Zionists," the Islamist movement which runs the Gaza Strip wrote in an open letter to a senior U.N. official that he should withdraw plans for a new history book in U.N. schools.

A spokesman for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), which educates some 200,000 refugee children in Gaza, said the Holocaust was not on its current curriculum. He would not comment on Hamas's statement that it was about to change.

It's quite clear that no one here is taking this line of mud slinging by you seriously. You ought to just drop it.

No, I will call mass rape advocates for what they are.

Don't like it? It hurts your feelings? Stop defending mass rapists. Simple.

This is ridiculous.

Articles showing attacks on safe regions and corridors have been presented in this thread, with quotes. These air strikes and bombings have been independently verified. To ignore this evidence and claim the attacks did not happen is illogical and a denial of facts.

No, what has been claimed is that airstrikes were done against civilians fleeing. No evidence or independent verification was provided.

I am still waiting for it.

[KurtFF8]

More stupid arguments, I see.

It won't matter because the reasons that impede aid delivery (active combat and misappropriation) will remain unaddressed.

So Israel will comply, but the situation on the ground won't radically change.

Israel won't comply because one of their explicit tactics is to starve the people of Gaza.

I've seen some people claim UNRWA, as an institution, participated in the attack which is quite extreme to make. But it is true that some of its employees did, meaning something went wrong with its hiring practices.

And those claims are leading to the defunding of the UNRWA and Israel's attacking of the institution itself. Israel has blocked all aid from UNRWA and has now killed UNRWA staffers. When you say "some of its employees" so far you're claiming that one employee (may have) participated in the Oct 7th attacks.

And yes, something is and has been wrong with it for some time. The tunnels found under it, which were used by Hamas to boot, did not appear by spontaneous generation. Neither did the rockets found under its schools going back as early as 2014.

Lets leave aside the fact that the Israeli government's talking points about tunnels have long been discredited: this isn't even an argument that UNRWA was complicit in it. Just that they operated near where Hamas potentially built them. A non-point.

No, I will call mass rape advocates for what they are.

So you're just openly admitting to being a liar now then.

@wat0n 's defense of genocide here is just weak. Also very low effort.