Israel-Palestinian War 2023 - Page 187 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues and parties in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

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#15313339
QatzelOk wrote:So if you were to ask Israel for evidence, they would say "No," and shoo you away?


No, I simply don't think Israel or any other country would jeopardize their intelligence gathering capabilities during active combat.

QatzelOk wrote:**"Shoo! Go away!" ?**TM

You are demanding that I prove proof that you will acknowledge, while hand-waiving away any proof that Israel might have needed to prove it was acting in good faith.

Image


My lie-detector app was right all along about you. So since you live on lies, let me explain why I don't require any proof ever by using a huge lie:

"It's because I am racially superior to everyone that I am debating with."

Is that a convincing argument (lie) that you can stand behind?

What if you were paid to stand behind it?


I am still waiting for you to prove I was lying, and if you believe someone pays me I want to see those receipts.
#15313344
wat0n wrote:...I am still waiting for you to prove I was lying, and if you believe someone pays me I want to see those receipts.


"You're lying" and "You must be paid to write this hasbara crap" are both just figures of speech.

Why are you arguing exclusively *on the surface* of the subject - rather than taking the time to notice the revealing *text manipulation* that is being exploited during a genocide that everyone can see?
#15313475












Pants-of-dog wrote:At this point, @wat0n could call Hitler an antisemite and no one would pay attention.


Indeed, he is getting beyond pathetic, but simultaneously beyond obvious that he is a hasbara troll, defending Israel from anything, be in the deliberate murder of aid workers and children to denying the many mass graves, buring alive of hospital patients etc., that has been discovered in the last two weeks at the hospitals the IDF occupied. HOSPITALS.

Pants-of-dog wrote:A mass grave filled with women and kids left behind by the IDF does not leave much to the unknown.


But psychotic hasbara trolls are here to explain it away in service to that genocidal state..
Last edited by skinster on 25 Apr 2024 23:35, edited 1 time in total.
#15313477
At this point it is obvious that Israel and the Netanyahu government is engaged in an ethnic cleansing genocide. It is not about fighting Hamas only. This is about killing Palestinians and making sure they never are able to occupy lands they used to occupy. It is an outright attempt to kill all Palestinians, men and women and children. That killing of 7 humanitarian aid workers from WCK and Jose Andres discussing how they gave the necessary information to the IDF an the IDF ignored it and then killed them. The mass graves, that video of that traumatized child. That disturbed me badly. I can't see that I get so ANGRY at anyone who thinks that is slightly acceptable. It is HEINOUS and GROTESQUE and INHUMANE and OBSCENE in the extreme.

The US Government has to stop sending any military aid to Israel. And they need to sanction Israel hard. I mean hard.

The hostages that are still out there are not a priority for the Netanyahu government. If they were they would have found a way to get them back.

They are not seeking that. They are seeking annihilating any Palestinians at all. It is perverse, and violates international law, and it is a genocide in the making.

The US unless it cuts off Israel completely is complicit in this genocide.
#15313480
@skinster I will never vote for Biden ever. That man is complicit! And I never even considered voting for him at all and never voted for him. He is a partisan man with no real policy about rights of other groups in the ME and in Latin America. Kamala sucks on Latin American affairs and she is weak on the Middle East too.

Trump and Biden are not the center of the planet. There are other political alternatives. It is time for people to start thinking about political philosophies that are against genocide, against the violation of human rights all over the world, and against WAR and killing people because some far right Racist freaks want to ethnic cleanse a place!
#15313534
skinster wrote:Handcuffed medics, patients with medical equipment attached to them, children and the elderly are among the bodies of those recovered by the savage IDF massacres in hospitals they occupied.


They were actually buried by the Palestinians themselves:

#15313546
The rats are jumping ship


Saeko wrote:It turns out it was all a complete lie with no basis in reality whatsoever:

I am shocked! Shocked, I say! :eek:


Typical Zionist propaganda. All they do is lie and lie and lie when justifying Zionist terrorism. It should've been obvious though as all governments complicit in Zionist genocide, in the hours when the ICJ said there was a plausible charge of genocide against Israel, on cue, dropped funding for UNRWA and accused aid workers within it as being "Hamas!!".

ex British ambassador Craig Murray wrote:Worse Than You Can Imagine
Governments cannot take big decisions extremely quickly except in the most extreme of circumstances. There are mechanisms in all states that consider policy decisions, weigh them up, involve the various departments of the state whose activities are affected by that decision, and arrive at a conclusion, though not necessarily a good one.

The decision to stop aid funding to UNRWA was not taken by numerous Western states in a single day.

In the UK, several different government ministries had to coordinate. Even within only a single ministry, the FCDO, views would have to be coordinated through written submissions and interdepartmental meetings between the departments dealing with the Middle East, with the United Nations, with the United States, with Europe and then of course between the diplomatic and development wings of the ministry.

That process would include seeking the views of British Ambassadors to Tel Aviv, Doha, Cairo, Riyadh, Istanbul and Washington and to the United Nations in Geneva and in New York.

It is not necessarily a lengthy process but it is not a day’s work, and nor would it need to be. There was no practical impact to making the announcement of cutting UNRWA funding a day sooner or a day later.

Consider that the parallel process had to be completed in the United States, in Canada, in Germany, in Australia and in all the other Western powers that contributed to starvation in Gaza by cutting aid to UNRWA.

All of these countries had to go through their procedures, and it could only be by prior coordination – weeks in advance – between these states that they announced all on the same day the destruction of the life support system for Palestinians, then in absolute need.

And then consider that we now know for certain that the Israelis had produced no evidence whatsoeverof UNRWA complicity in Hamas resistance, on which these decisions in all those states were allegedly based.

I have no doubt at all that the Western political elite, paid tools of the zionist machine, are complicit in the genocide of Palestinians and ethnic cleansing of Gaza at a much deeper level than the people have yet understood. The refusal by Starmer and Sunak to contemplate ending arms sales and military support to Israel is not due to inertia or concern for the arms industry. It is that they actively support the destruction of the Palestinians.

The coordinated decision of the Western nations to fast track famine by stopping UNRWA funding was announced within an hour, following the ICJ ruling that Gazans were at immediate risk of genocide, and drove from the media headlines the adverse ruling against Israel.

This sent the clearest signal in response that the Western powers would not be stopped from the genocide by international law or institutions.

The Western powers give not a fig for 16,000 massacred Palestinian infants. No evidence of mass graves in hospitals will move them. They knew genocide was happening and continued actively to arm and abet it.

This genocide is the desired goal of the West. No other explanation is remotely plausible.

I have never believed the spin that Biden is trying to restrain Netanyahu, while simultaneously arming and funding Netanyahu and using US forces to fight alongside him.

Biden is making no effort to restrain Netanyahu. Biden fully supports the genocide.

My reading of this was reinforced when I was looking back at the Israeli murders on the Mavi Mamara in 2010, when they killed ten unarmed aid workers attempting a Freedom Flotilla aid delivery to Gaza. Israel’s actions were clearly both murderous and in breach of international law. Joe Biden as Vice President defended Israel staunchly then. It is essential to understand that Genocide Joe has always been Genocide Joe.

Joe Biden took the lead in defending the raid to the U.S. public. In an interview with PBS, he described the raid as “legitimate” and argued that the flotilla organizers could have disembarked elsewhere before transferring the aid to Gaza. “So what’s the big deal here? What’s the big deal of insisting it go straight to Gaza?” Biden asked about the humanitarian mission. “Well, it’s legitimate for Israel to say, ‘I don’t know what’s on that ship. These guys are dropping eight — 3,000 rockets on my people.’”

Biden is not being outplayed by Netanyahu. He is actively abetting Netanyahu and shares with him the objective of full Israeli occupation of Gaza after the Palestinian people are killed or expelled into Sinai. He also shares with Netanyahu the aim of a wider regional conflict in which the US and Gulf states ally with Israel against Iran, Syria, Yemen and Hezbollah. This is their joint vision of the Middle East – Greater Israel, and US hegemony operating through the Sunni monarchies.

If you believe all the spin from the White House about Biden trying to restrain Netanyahu, I suggest you look instead at the White House and State Department spokesmen refusing to accept any single instance of Israel atrocity and deferring to Israel on every single crime.

I am currently in Pakistan, and I must say it has been a great refreshment to be in a country where everybody understands why ISIS, Al Nusra etc. never attacked Israeli interests, and sees precisely what Western governments are doing over Gaza. What is understood by developing nations is thankfully understood by GenZ in the West as well.

The Arab regimes of the Gulf and Jordan are dependent upon Israeli and US security services and surveillance for protection from their own people. The lack of really massive street protest against their own regimes by Arab peoples is a direct testimony to the effectiveness of that vicious repression, particularly when states like Jordan actually fight alongside Israel against Iranian weapons.

The anti-Iranian card is of course the trick both Biden and Netanyahu have left to play. By promoting an escalation with Iran, Western politicians were able to default to a position of claiming the case for arming Israel was proven – and I think were genuinely perplexed to find the public did not buy it.

The political class, across the Western world and the Arab world, is utterly divorced from its people over Gaza. We are seeing worldwide repression, as peaceful conferences are stormed by police in Germany, students are beaten by police in American campuses, and in the UK old white people like me suffer the kind of continual harassment long suffered by young Muslim men.

This is not the work of Netanyahu operating as a rogue. It is the result of the machinations of a professional political class across the Western world welded to zionism, with the supremacy of Israel as an article of fundamental belief.

Times are not this dark by accident. They were designed to be this dark.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... n-imagine/


wat0n wrote:They were actually buried by the Palestinians themselves:


Zionist propaganda doesn't work anymore, wat0n, you should look for another job, preferably one that doesn't fight with reality and people's eyes (and their testimonies in Gaza), because that's a battle you (or I) can never win.





#15313548
Why is it that only propagandist accounts are the ones denying satellite images? And it's the same ones who were so happy to see the massacre of October 7 to boot.

Either way, I am all for an investigation. Not just of who killed them and who buried them, but also why were they unburied and the area bulldozed.
#15313556
The fact that hospital staff had to bury many people does not, in any way, contradict the idea that the IDF killed and buried ,any people while the IDF controlled the hospital.
#15313560
Since Hamas would have been unable to enter the hospital grounds once the grounds were occupied by IDF forces, any bodies killed by gunfire after that date found in the graves could only have been killed and buried by the IDF since the IDF were the only militant group with the means and opportunity.
#15313564
Since the earliest evidence of burial starts after the IDF had invaded Khan Younis and isolated Nasser hospital, it is a fact that all bodies were buried after that date.

Therefore, it is impossible for any other group to have killed people with guns and then buried them. Only the IDF had the means, motive, and opportunity.
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