[Pants-of-dog]

What if part of the reason fewer % of white males are going to college are the racist and possibly sexist admissions policies or unspoken racial/gender biases of current college admissions departments? Or lack of encouragement at the high school level?

For that to be a thing, we would have needed to have a different history to this point.

Since we did not, this is a highly implausible claim.

I'd think that worthy of discussion. Unless, of course, some want to ignore the issue entirely because they are racists.

Then start a discussion on it.

[Tainari88]

Should people be going to college? So many graduate with debt. Then there's the struggle to get started in that first steady job and start paying off the debt. Then those same students take out loans to buy a house or go on vacations.

There's a spending problem. Why does education have to be expensive in the first place? Why can't education be a basic human right? Or why not make it about the same price as paying for gasoline?

I went to college and still have a second degree to finish. But do I find it useful? No, not really. Having good people skills is useful. Most of the time, it's about knowing what to say and knowing how to say it so that I keep management happy with me. They really cared the most about my professional working experience anyway.

Misty you hit the nail on the head with this one for sure.

It used to be the ticket to a secure job, with benefits and the company that hired you were loyal to their employees and gave them job security and stability that they could count on to buy a home, get married, have children and get a good life in some community they wanted to grow roots in. Now? Everyone is worried about the hammer dropping on them and being homeless--even people with good grades, tons of certifications and diplomas and so on. None feel secure.

People often blame it on the wrong sources. The layabouts, the Millenials, so on and so forth. No, it is about how the economy in neoliberalism is set up. That is the problem. Once that is changed profoundly you will get something better.

Also, too many people live their lives in isolation. They get used to not talking face to face, eating together, and so on. A lot of people are not dating and not having sex too. Really. Having that kind of relationship really does bring a sense of stability in life. They say that in China unmarried men with no wives or girlfriends are the most prone to violence of all demographic groups.

I believe it too. Having sex with someone who loves you, eating regular meals, and having less anxiety about how to pay your bills and live your life without all this constant insecurity will get people off of the depressive states they are in.

That pandemic sure emphasized the damages of not being able to have human contact.

[Fasces]

The intentions of the OP are unknown, but you wouldn't say this if it were a post about black males, or white women.

This may shock you and others, but white males are human beings too. If they see decline in some kind of socioeconomic indicator, who cares right? Screw em!

A person making this post about white women or black males or even black women, or others... is the type of person that would outright say what they want to accomplish, rather than being cowardly about it.

It's ironic that so many alpha males pussyfoot around their point, seemingly terrorized of the social ostracization they claim to be above. It's funny.

[Fasces]

What if part of the reason fewer % of white males are going to college

% measures are zero sum. For one group to gain, another must 'lose'.

From OP's source:

The overall college enrollment rate [of all genders and races] decreased from 41 percent in 2010 to 38 percent in 2021

[...]

However, for White 18- to 24-year-olds, the college enrollment rate decreased from 43 to 38 percent over this period.

While I agree broadly that equality should approach bringing everyone to the same level, if 38% of people are going to college, 38% of white people going to college isn't necessarily a cause for alarm.

The college enrollment rate for 18- to 24-year-old females did not measurably differ in 2021 compared with 2010, either overall (43 percent in 2021) or for White, Black, Hispanic females (44, 42, and 37 percent, respectively, in 2021).

In contrast, the college enrollment rate for 18- to 24-year-old males decreased from 38 to 33 percent over this period. This was driven by the decrease in the college enrollment rate for White males (from 41 to 33 percent). Meanwhile, the rate in 2021 was not measurably different from the rate in 2010 for either Black or Hispanic males (31 and 30 percent, respectively, in 2021).

The fact he mentioned white at all is what's suspicious here. This is a story of a gender gap, not a racial gap. The story is "men are less likely to go to college than women" not "white men are less likely to go to college than anyone else". Race has nothing to do with it.

Now, while this is a fascinating topic, especially in regards to youth pedagogy and how we can make classrooms more attractive for boys (in fact, my masters thesis in education touched on this topic) - the default Pufferfish bogeyman of big bad ni--DEI isn't to blame here.

"But he didn't say anything explicitly about DEI." I know, but I also know the user, I've read his other threads, and thats precisely why I called him out for pussyfooting around his point - because fuck dogwhistles, and say what you mean. It's not a debate when one side is too cowardly to outright say what they mean just in case they have to defend the stupid shit they said. At least FiveofSwords can do that.

[Tainari88]

% measures are zero sum. For one group to gain, another must 'lose'.

From OP's source:



While I agree broadly that equality should approach bringing everyone to the same level, if 38% of people are going to college, 38% of white people going to college isn't necessarily a cause for alarm.



The fact he mentioned white at all is what's suspicious here. This is a story of a gender gap, not a racial gap. The story is "men are less likely to go to college than women" not "white men are less likely to go to college than anyone else". Race has nothing to do with it.

Now, while this is a fascinating topic, especially in regards to youth pedagogy and how we can make classrooms more attractive for boys (in fact, my masters thesis in education touched on this topic) - the default Pufferfish bogeyman of big bad ni--DEI isn't to blame here.

"But he didn't say anything explicitly about DEI." I know, but I also know the user, I've read his other threads, and thats precisely why I called him out for pussyfooting around his point -because fuck dogwhistles, and say what you mean. It's not a debate when one side is too cowardly to outright say what they mean just in case they have to defend the stupid shit they said. At least FiveofSwords can do that.

You have to own up the shit you write. Otherwise what is the purpose of a debate forum? None. Run from what you write from others. Go get a blog.

[MistyTiger]

Misty you hit the nail on the head with this one for sure.

It used to be the ticket to a secure job, with benefits and the company that hired you were loyal to their employees and gave them job security and stability that they could count on to buy a home, get married, have children and get a good life in some community they wanted to grow roots in. Now? Everyone is worried about the hammer dropping on them and being homeless--even people with good grades, tons of certifications and diplomas and so on. None feel secure.

People often blame it on the wrong sources. The layabouts, the Millenials, so on and so forth. No, it is about how the economy in neoliberalism is set up. That is the problem. Once that is changed profoundly you will get something better.

Also, too many people live their lives in isolation. They get used to not talking face to face, eating together, and so on. A lot of people are not dating and not having sex too. Really. Having that kind of relationship really does bring a sense of stability in life. They say that in China unmarried men with no wives or girlfriends are the most prone to violence of all demographic groups.

I believe it too. Having sex with someone who loves you, eating regular meals, and having less anxiety about how to pay your bills and live your life without all this constant insecurity will get people off of the depressive states they are in.

That pandemic sure emphasized the damages of not being able to have human contact.

It's sad. And the difference between getting hired or not could even be saying the wrong thing to one question during an interview. It feels like a personality test. A major reason I get hired is because I am able to just know what to say to certain interviewers. I have the best luck if the interviewer is a woman in her 40s to 60s. Although, this does not always apply if the interviewer is actually looking for a meaner, older woman then of course I will not win her over, so it really depends.

So I guess I have decent people pleasing skills. I'm not proud to admit this, but I got bills to pay. It's no joke to be unemployed.

[RealPolitic]

I do think education is extremely important. STEM degrees are more valuable given they get you good paying jobs. Moreover, everybody, especially those with STEM degrees must learn soft skills. Soft skills are incredibly important if you want to survive in the job market. You have to learn to get along with people and your colleagues. Another important thing for employees is that your job at the end of the day is to keep your boss happy. Thats your job: to keep your boss happy. He or she is the one who writes your evaluations and can make or break your career.

If you can't get along with your colleagues, be a team player, and keep your boss happy, you're not going to make it in the job market. Plus, this notion of "its not my job" and thinking something is beneath your credentials or your job title is unacceptable. There are plenty of things that need to be done in the workplace that does not fit anybody's job description. So you might as well fill the void and be somebody who is indispensable by doing the work that doesn't fit into anybody's job description that needs to be done. You want to be indispensable in the workplace. When the boss hears "its not my job" what the boss really hears is "I am too lazy." Thats what the boss hears. And that's not going to make the boss happy and thats a career killer for you.

Soft skills are something that are not taught in the classroom. They are something you learn in the workplace and you must learn for career gold and job survival. That being said, a college education is important too for many reasons, but you also need those soft skills.

[Unthinking Majority]

Then start a discussion on it.

This thread would be a place for that.

[Unthinking Majority]

% measures are zero sum. For one group to gain, another must 'lose'.

If white males are decreasing in enrollment because of merit, and their grades just aren't good enough vis-a-vis other demographics as they were before, and this is all due to merit, then I have no issues with this. Let the best person win.

If 90% of college enrollments went to black kids (or any other race) because they were better high school students that would be fine. This is because i'm not a racist. I get why people want to help low-achieving demographics, and we should be helping all low-achieving students regardless of group identity. I also support eliminating all racism/sexism and other discrimination in admissions, which has traditionally benefited whites and probably males, including things like nepotism (which I assume disproportionately benefits whites in the US).

While I agree broadly that equality should approach bringing everyone to the same level, if 38% of people are going to college, 38% of white people going to college isn't necessarily a cause for alarm.

Agreed, as long as we're talking about equality of opportunity, and not forced equality of outcome through admissions gender/race discrimination in admissions via DEI efforts. The fact that Jews and Asians and females kick the bottoms of white men in academics for a long time, and do so because of merit, shouldn't bother anyone.

Now, while this is a fascinating topic, especially in regards to youth pedagogy and how we can make classrooms more attractive for boys (in fact, my masters thesis in education touched on this topic) - the default Pufferfish bogeyman of big bad ni--DEI isn't to blame here.

Sure, this explains why more women attend and graduate college than men. It doesn't explain the recent reduction in white male enrollments through. DEI is a possible culprit.

"But he didn't say anything explicitly about DEI." I know, but I also know the user, I've read his other threads, and thats precisely why I called him out for pussyfooting around his point - because fuck dogwhistles, and say what you mean. It's not a debate when one side is too cowardly to outright say what they mean just in case they have to defend the stupid shit they said. At least FiveofSwords can do that.

The OP poster is a racist and what seems like some kind of alleged sex criminal, and gets no sympathy from me for that. So I understand your point.

[Puffer Fish]

another thread: Fewer jobs available for those with college degrees, as economy slows (June 2024) (posted in North America, 7 June 2024)

[Puffer Fish]

Men are turning away from college and the shift could have profound implications for the economy, their health and the American family. Today, only 39% of young men who have completed high school are enrolled in college, down from 47% in 2011, according to a recent analysis by Pew Research. That works out to about 1 million fewer young men in college compared to just over a decade ago.

US employers add a surprisingly strong 216,000 jobs in a sign of continued economic strength
“It’s now clear that there are many boys and men who have fallen behind and that we have to be able to think about gender inequality in both directions,” Reeves said in a recent TED Talk.

Four-year universities aren’t the only schools with fewer men, community colleges have also seen enrollment dip in recent years, the National Bureau of Economic Research has found.

“It’s not the fact that the skilled trades are luring many of these men away from the college pathway. Many of the men who are not pursuing college today are not going into the skilled trades,” said Zack Mabel, a research professor at the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce.

Fewer men in school could worsen labor shortages in fields that depend on additional training and education. That may present a challenge for fast-growing sectors like health care.

More than 70% of jobs over the next decade will go to workers with some education beyond high school, according to researchers at Georgetown. That percentage jumps to 85% for the types of jobs that provide financial stability.

Over a lifetime, workers with bachelor’s degrees typically earn $1.2 million more than those with only a high school diploma. Those with degrees are also less likely to lose jobs when the economy sours.

So are men pursuing other types of education instead? Not exactly.
“Many young men are foregoing education in training programs and associate’s degrees and so our entire economy as a whole is potentially not going to have enough workers to fill a lot of those skilled positions,” Mabel said.

Men are more likely than women to suffer “deaths of despair” stemming from drug overdoses, alcohol-liver disease and suicide. They’re also more likely to die from cancer.

Today, women live about six years longer than men in the United States and college-educated Americans live about 8.5 years longer than those without a bachelor’s degree. Thirty years ago, that education gap was 2.5 years.

Risk for relationships
In 2015, 65% of college-educated adults 25 and older were married, compared to 50% of those with no education beyond high school, according to Pew. In 1990, the marriage rate was above 60% for both groups.

Because people with college degrees tend to partner with each other, the gender imbalance on campus has led to a broader mismatch in the dating market.

Most young men, over 60%, are single today. And women, particularly those who are college-educated, say they’re struggling to find someone who “meets their expectations.”
Some, like NYU Professor Scott Galloway, have warned that the college gender gap, and the “mating inequality” that follows, pose an “existential risk” to society.

Men are skipping college: 4 reasons why you should pay attention, Andrew Dorn, News Nation, January 5, 2024
https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/e ... my-health/

[Rancid]

Perhaps the solution is to reject more black males.

[Puffer Fish]

Perhaps the solution is to reject more black males.

In 2010, 19.7% of U.S. Black men had a four year degree.
2018, 19%
2021, 22%
In 2022, it was 26.7%.

sources:
https://pnpi.org/factsheets/men-of-color/
https://blackdemographics.com/populatio ... tatistics/

This represents an increase of about 1.35 million more black males with 4 year degrees.
Even if we were to assume, for the sake of hypothetical argument, that there would be one less white male getting a degree for every additional black male getting a degree (which of course is ludicrous), that would still only account for a small fraction of the total decrease in white males getting degrees.

(By the way, black women outnumber black men by 55.3% to 44.7% , when it comes to those with 4-year degrees)

[Rancid]

(By the way, black women outnumber black men by 55.3% to 44.7% , when it comes to those with 4-year degrees)

Yes, in general, women have hire rates of college degrees than men. This is becoming more and more true.

[Puffer Fish]

Within a year of graduating, about 52% of people who recently earned bachelor's degrees in the US are working jobs that don't require a college education, according to a new joint report by two research firms.

The vast majority of underemployed graduates -- 88% of them -- are working high school-level jobs such as office support, food service, and retail within five years of graduation, per the report by the data research firms Burning Glass Institute and the Strada Education Foundation.

The report, published on Thursday, was based on a dataset of 60 million people's careers in the US, including those of 10.8 million people with a bachelor's degree.

Its findings present a bleak outlook for new graduates hoping that a degree will guarantee them significantly better opportunities.​

About half of America's new college graduates are working in high school-level jobs like food service and retail: report , Matthew Loh, Business Insider, February 22, 2024


More than half of college grads are stuck in jobs that don't require degrees

More than half of Americans who earned college diplomas find themselves working in jobs that don't require a bachelor's (4-year) degree or utilize the skills acquired in obtaining one. What's worse, they can get stuck there for the entirety of their careers.

If a graduate's first job is in a low-paying field or out-of-line with a worker's interests, it could pigeonhole them into an undesirable role or industry that's hard to escape, according to a new study from The Burning Glass Institute and the Strada Institute for the Future of Work.

"What we found is that even in a red-hot economy, half of graduates are winding up in jobs they didn't need to go to college to get," Burning Glass CEO Matt Sigelman told CBS MoneyWatch. Examples of jobs that don't require college-level skills include roles in the retail, hospitality and manufacturing sectors, according to Sigelman.

Another study from the HEA Group found that a decade after enrolling in college, attendees of 1 in 4 higher education programs are earning less than $32,000 -- the median annual income for high school graduates.

(The HEA Group analyzed data from the Department of Education to track the earnings outcomes of about five million students. Ensuring a Living Wage Through Higher Education - The HEA Group )​

A college degree, in itself, is not a ticket to a higher-paying job, the study shows.
"Getting a college degree is viewed as the ticket to the American dream," said Sigelman, "and it turns out that it's a bust for half of students."

Focusing on science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) subjects is not a guarantee of college-level employment and high wages, the study found.

There are also other ways to boost one's shot at a fruitful career that makes a college degree a worthy investment. For example, securing an internship while pursuing one's undergraduate studies reduces the risk of underemployment by almost 50%. ​

More than half of college grads are stuck in jobs that don't require degrees, by Megan Cerullo, CBS News - Money Watch, February 23, 2024