[QatzelOk]

The Valencia flood rerouting thing with the river is so crazy how the media totally ignored that. And they just skipped over such a big piece of the puzzle. They seem too obsessed with sharing with flashy headlines rather than actually going deep on the real story. They don’t care, it’s as if they don’t care about the details that state exactly what was going on.

Exactly. I have found absolutely NO MSM article that mentions - even casually - that this important river system was rerouted....

And that the original intent of the Fascist Governement of Spain (Franco) was to build a highway... hints that there may be a conspiracy in here somewhere: Car-Oil-Fascism get together and flood a Catalan city to build a highway.

In the video above (cued to the right moment)... the reporter brings up some irrelevant "human interest" information to stimulate tourism dollars. It's all our interviewers know how to do - get eyeballs on advertisments.

Here, rather than insight as to the cause of the destruction, the audience are invited to imagine the quaint little Valencians gathering mushrooms.... To stay cute, the interviewer could have panned out to a clip of "The Grinch who Stole Christmas" to compare Valencia to Whoville.

[wat0n]

MSM has mentioned the river was rerouted, and credits the rerouting to the fact that the city wasn't flooded.

[QatzelOk]

MSM has mentioned the river was rerouted, and credits the rerouting to the fact that the city wasn't flooded.

Just saying this doesn't make it true.

Look: "The biggest city in North America is Cleveland, with over 55 billion people."

See? I wrote something down, but it isn't true because I failed to link to any proof. You've had three pages of trolling to find a single MSM article that mentionned the river rerouting and you failed to provide it.

This is called "losing an argument," and you need to get comfortable with this. (meditation?)

[wat0n]

It is true though.

The peak flow was at around half the level the artificial waterways are designed to hold IIRC.

[QatzelOk]

MSM has mentioned the river was rerouted...

Where is the link to this article?

If you don't have one, then I assume you're lying and have not only lost the argument, but have put your reputation as a debater in danger as well.

If you provide the link within 48 hours, I will respond to you.

Otherwise, enjoy losing an argument because of lack of effort or integrity.


wat0n collapses onto his troll blocks

[wat0n]

Civil engineers said the city of Valencia was spared the worst thanks to the hydraulic dam of Forata and the rerouting of the Turia river away from the city center. These infrastructure works were made after the great flood of Valencia in 1957, when an overflowing Turia killed at least 81 people.

Hydraulic infrastructure plans to protect towns south of the city, where most of the rain fell this week, were never realized. An infrastructure program to protect small towns from these overflows was drawn up 15 years ago and required about 200 million euros ($217 million) at the time, but the investment since 2008 has been minimal, said Federico Bonet Zapater, civil engineer at the Polytechnic University of Valencia.

And without quote, since these are in Spanish, you have the BBC:

https://www.bbc.com/mundo/articles/c774nn2krg5o

Plus Spanish media obviously, the first one mentions that peak flow was 2000 m/s when the reroute can accommodate up to 5000 m/s:

https://www.lasprovincias.es/comunitat/ ... 33-nt.html
https://www.lasprovincias.es/comunitat/ ... 14-nt.html
https://www.levante-emv.com/horta/2024/ ... 52711.html

You even have some nice map showing what actually happened in this last link:



And one of those also has a photo of the reroute from October 30th showing how the rerouting went:



It seems to be holding the increased flow just fine, doesn't it @QatzelOk?

[QatzelOk]

...Hydraulic infrastructure plans to protect towns south of the city, where most of the rain fell this week, were never realized. An infrastructure program to protect small towns from these overflows was drawn up 15 years ago and required about 200 million euros ($217 million) at the time, but the investment since 2008 has been minimal, said Federico Bonet Zapater, civil engineer at the Polytechnic University of Valencia...

I can't get past their paywall, but I guess this article explains why the flooding was such a disaster. The original rerouting was only half-completed. Make the money, and then git-er-done.

Lots of safety features were ignored. As they always are with Big Money infrastructure, including nuclear power plants, vaccines and GMO seeds.

So the re-route is likely to be **at fault** which makes this omission on the part of the vast majority of mainstream coverage unacceptable.

Oh and the Spanish sources that finally do mention the re-routing of the river... were written AFTER I wrote the OP. So the Washington Post article (that I can't see) is all we have so far.

[QatzelOk]

wat0n, I would like to take a minute to congratulate you on doing a bit of research and then posting some quality content that actually contributes to the discovery of some insight into the tragedy. The fact that a major project (build a highway where a river used to flow) was built - but the safety features were not completed - is very important in understanding our world beyond this one tragic story.

We are all so proud of you doing a bit of work and expending a bit of effort.

***

Why is Western MSM so shitty at uncovering important details and variables?

Here is one possible explanation:

Partisan oligopolies have swallowed independent media in the United States and reduced the thousands of U.S. correspondents once reporting on international affairs to mere dozens. U.S. corporate media now treat the news as an entertainment-based cost center and consumer product rather than as a necessary public service or civic duty.

Just like medicine and health care, in the USA, media is a profit-making venture, not a way for the public to learn about the world around them. All the public needs to "learn" from our MSM... is how to buy the most expensive products that you absolutely NEED. This is all the public needs to know, according to our current MSM.

So if there was information *missing* regarding the re-routing of a major river, there was lots of information *added to* the article... about the easiest way to finance a well-branded SUV or take a vacation to a southern destination.

[wat0n]

I can't get past their paywall, but I guess this article explains why the flooding was such a disaster. The original rerouting was only half-completed. Make the money, and then git-er-done.

Lots of safety features were ignored. As they always are with Big Money infrastructure, including nuclear power plants, vaccines and GMO seeds.

So the re-route is likely to be **at fault** which makes this omission on the part of the vast majority of mainstream coverage unacceptable.

Oh and the Spanish sources that finally do mention the re-routing of the river... were written AFTER I wrote the OP. So the Washington Post article (that I can't see) is all we have so far.

No, the reroute doesn't have anything to do with the flooding in the suburbs. The reroute of the Túria doesn't even reroute the flow of the river to the suburbs, it reroutes it to the sea and the infrastructure is built within the city. You can also see that this infrastructure didn't flood or anything of the sort. If you also look at the map I put in that post, you may notice that the water that flooded Valencia's suburbs doesn't come from the Túria but from other waterways.

The issue is that Spain never really built any comparable projects like the Plan Sur to reroute those other waterways but did happily built dwellings in the flooding area... 30% of the flooded buildings were knowingly built inside flood zones. The 2008 proposal would have been a natural continuation of the effort that started as a result of the 1957 floods but it never really got off... Let's not forget that 2008 is the year of the subprime and Eurozone crises, I suspect Spain simply ran out of money to be able to afford to build this type of infrastructure.

[QatzelOk]

No, the reroute doesn't have anything to do with the flooding in the suburbs. ...

There is nothing provided by you or me in this thread that proves this so you are making an unbacked claim based on your "feelings" here.

That the flooding in Paiporta was 1 km from the floodzone... is another important variable that you are currently omitting for some unknown reason.

The map that is twice posted... shows both the city and the area just outside the city limits that was seriously flooded.

Paiporto is 1 km from that floodway in the south of Valencia....

Your trolling gets in the way of information comprehension. If all you are going to do is repeat the already-answered questions of previous pages... why would I waste time re-typing the answers?

Are you imitating MSM here in its deafness to new information?

I acknowledged the "new information" that you posted on this page (a Wall Street Journal article behind a paywall) and continued to shine brilliantly in the thread. Why are you strangling your own potential growth?

[wat0n]

There is nothing provided by you or me in this thread that proves this so you are making an unbacked claim based on your "feelings" here.

That the flooding in Paiporta was 1 km from the floodzone... is another important variable that you are currently omitting for some unknown reason.



Your trolling gets in the way of information comprehension. If all you are going to do is repeat the already-answered questions of previous pages... why would I waste time re-typing the answers?

Are you imitating MSM here in its deafness to new information?

I acknowledged the "new information" that you posted on this page (a Wall Street Journal article behind a paywall) and continued to shine brilliantly in the thread. Why are you strangling your own potential growth?

Why are you just ignoring this map?

You even have some nice map showing what actually happened in this last link:

Am I just being trolled?

[QatzelOk]

Find Paiporta on that map, and then notice that the floodway - the re-routed river flood zone - is 1 km to the north of it.

The flooding in Paiporta is next to the floodway that was built to replace the natural river flow. And, as you mentioned earlier, this floodway was not built to safety standards. It is missing some important safety features that were discarded.

I was so happy to see you contribute something other than trolling in this thread. Your research helped uncover the fact that this project - spearheaded by a fascist government working for car company co-consipirators - was partially abandoned when the highway project was protested by the locals. And at the same period as this protest, the fascist government was starting to crumble.

Fascists don't care about safety features, and neither do multinational corporations if they can get away with the consequences. Like if these consequences are well into the future and way past the statue of limitations for suing them.

[wat0n]

Which waterway is around Paiporta? The Túria or another, different one?

Also what are you talking about the safety of Valencia's reroute? It's designed to accommodate up to 5000l/m2, peak flow in the Túria was 2000l/m2. The real issue is that the Rambla del Poyo, which goes through Paiporta and is fed by a different river, can only hold up to 1800l/m2 but the peak was 2300l/m2. It's why they need infrastructure.

[QatzelOk]

This is the third time that I will post this map in this thread:



The blue line near the bottom is the re-routed Turia river complex, and this re-route is 1km from the flooding in Paiporta. If you can prove that this is just a coincidence, and that the re-route has zero to do with the flooding, go ahead and do so.

But if you are just going to "not understand" a map for three more pages.... Playing stupid doesn't bolster your non-argument, wat0n. The main point of the thread is that MSM misses important details of virtually every story. And this is an important truth for the viewing public to understand.

Your "I don't understand maps, so you can't say anything to me" just reveals your own limitations, and does nothing to mitigate my main point.

[wat0n]

Yeah, your map doesn't even show where Paiporta is.

[Potemkin]

I have to admire @QatzelOk’s persistence here. Reality doesn’t stand a chance against him!

[QatzelOk]

Yeah, your map doesn't even show where Paiporta is.

More importantly, you are unable to locate Paiporta on the map because you don't know how to use one.

Can't you compare both maps on this thread to google maps... to locate Paiporta?

If not, please wear a medic-alert bracelet to this effect when you post.

[wat0n]

I already shared a map showing where Paiporta is and the flow route of the Rambla del Poyo, @QatzelOk

[Potemkin]

@QatzelOk 1, Reality 0.

[QatzelOk]

Yeah, your map doesn't even show where Paiporta is.

The map you provided shows that Paiporta is one km from the Neuvo Cruce del Turia. This means, in Spanish, the New Channel of the Turia. The floodway. Why didn't you notice this yourself earlier?

@QatzelOk 1, Reality 0.

If reality means "drowing out all alternative voices with non-stop browbeating and detail-naziism," you are correct.

And the "reality" that you describe is why the West is in so much trouble. We have been rendered incapable of criticizing power. Castrated by pedantic tropes that our media feeds us.

THE MEDIA MISSED THE MOST IMPORTANT DETAIL OF THIS STORY.... is still true. 100% true.

But a troll was able to defuse this truth with irrelevant details and obfuscation. Most Westerners respond to this strategy because mainstream media hits them over the head with stupidity every single day.

So the headline for the story about this thread should be :

Legendary Troll blocks insight with obfuscation and faux incomprehension.
Stunned Western crowd yells for moar!

Noticing that Western media had completely ignored that fact that Valencia moved its primary river a half century ago, Qatzel Ok attempted to inform pofo readers of this important ommission.

Luckily for the powers that be, legendary troll wat0n was available to feign incomprehension at provided maps, as well as to attempt to side-track the main thrust of the thread with irrelevant details that didn't address the media ommission at all.

MSM was saved again! Good work, debtslaves and human animals.