[Tonic]

"in any other country in the world "

Yes they love the social benefit of the state. That don't make them less hostile element

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/995466.html



Poll: 77% of Israeli Arabs would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world

By Bradley Burston, Haaretz Correspondent

Tags: Harvard, Israeli Arabs, poll

A recent opinion poll conducted by Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government found that 77 percent of Israeli Arabs would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world.

The survey of 1,721 Israelis, both Arab and Jewish, also showed that 73 percent of the Jews and 94 percent of the Arabs want Israel to "be a society in which Arab and Jewish citizens have mutual respect and equal opportunities."

The Kennedy School said in a statement that the poll produced a number of results it termed surprising, pointing to a higher level of co-existence than might have been anticipated.
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The research comes at a period of simmering tensions in some sectors of the Arab-Jewish divide within Israel.

The release of the poll coincided with celebrations, accompanied by widespread Israeli Arab boycotts, of the 60th anniversary of the state's declaration of independence.

Israeli Arab MKs cited widespread discrimination as the cause of the boycotts. At the same time, MK Limor Livnat (Likud) proposed that the Knesset remove Arabic from its list of the country's official primary languages.

However, Professor Todd Pittinsky, research director of the Kennedy School's Center for Public Leadership and lead researcher for the poll, said that the results pointed to a contrary phenomenon. Much media coverage focuses on the divisions between Jewish and Arab citizens in Israel, and not enough on the sincere and concerted efforts to coexist peacefully, Pittinsky said in a statement.

According to the poll, 68 percent of Jewish citizens support teaching conversational Arabic in Jewish schools to help bring Arab and Jewish citizens together.

The data also showded that more than two-thirds of Israeli Jews (69 percdent) said they believed that contributing to co-existence was a personal responsibility.

"Every day, innovative experiments in coexistence are going on," Pittinsky said.

"People on the ground in Israel are running community centers that enable cultural exchanges; in bilingual schools?like the Hand in Hand network of schools - young Jewish and Arab children become culturally conversant with each other. These deserve as much attention as rockets and roadblocks. They should be nurtured, studied, funded, and reported in the media. Ultimately the most successful efforts should be launched on a wider scale."

The study, conducted in Hebrew and Arabic with the assistance of University of Haifa researchers, was funded by the Alan B. Slifka foundation, which has sponsored a number of coexistence projects.

"This report supports what we have long suspected?unity among Israel?s Jewish and Arab communities is not only attainable, but there is great public support for it," philanthropist Slifka said.

"The critical next step is for Israeli policy makers to bring about the structural changes that the Jewish and Arab publics support, to reshape the educational, income, residential, and other divides that undermine national unity."

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/06/28/ ... /#comments
Israeli Arabs love Israel
Adam LeBor, June 28th 2008, 6:29 pm

A recent poll reported in Haaretz showed that 77 per cent of Israeli Arabs would rather live in Israel than any other country. This encouraging news was accompanied by the statistic that 94 per cent of Arab citizens want Israel to be “a country in which Arab and Jewish citizens have mutual respect and equal opportunities”.

The poll was conducted by the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, and the pollsters declared themselves surprised by the findings, which pointed towards a higher level of co-existence than they had thought. My own anecdotal finding confirm this: when I was researching my book in Jaffa, almost all the Aras I interviewed said they defined themselves as “Palestinian citizens of Israel”. Yet not a single one said they would rather live in a Palestinian state, even if a meaningful state came into existence. The reasons were varied, but basically boiled down to the fact that Israel is a democracy, with a rule of law. Unlike all of its neighbours.

A businessman said if he had a problem with his premises he could call Tel Aviv municipality and someone would be over the next day to fix things. A retired Christian Palestinian said he did not feel comfortable in Ramallah because the social codes of dress and hospitality had not evolved since 1948 (when, in many respects Palestinian society has been frozen, rather like east Europe under Communism) and he could not wear shorts. And so on.

My own analysis of why the Harvard pollsters were surprised is based on the rather bizarre nature of being a Jerusalem correspondent for a major western news organisation. Jerusalem correspondents are basically Ramallah correspondents and mainly report on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They rarely report on Israel itself, unless the government is about to collapse or something like that. The complexities of Israeli society and its robust democracy go largely ignored. Perhaps the Harvard poll will be a hook for a few articles about Israel itself.

One topic worth examining is the complex and often bitter relationship between Arab citizens of Israel and those in the Occupied Territories and global diaspora. Both sides often regard each other with disdain: the exiles say that Arab citizens of Israel have betrayed the Palestinian cause by taking Israeli citizenship and learning Hebrew. The Arab Israelis have a simple answer to that: we stayed in our homeland - you left.

Title edited to conform with TN rules

[Sapper]

Interesting.

I wonder what a similar poll would've said about blacks in the 1950s south in America. They probably "loved" America, too, but also wanted to end the systematic discrimination.

That's the feeling of Arab-Israelis.

[Muck]

I wonder what a similar poll would've said about blacks in the 1950s south in America. They probably "loved" America, too, but also wanted to end the systematic discrimination.

Assumption.

That's the feeling of Arab-Israelis.

Statement.

Silly.

[Arthur2sheds_Jackson]

Tonic thats an extremely dishonest title.

You claim that they 'love the social benefit of the state' because they would rather be there.

Well I'd rather be knee-deep in rabbit shit than cowshit but it doesn't mean I 'love' standing in the former.

Your title should be taken from the quoted articles not your spin on them.

[Tonic]

arthur, the title is from the blog i've found the story

Israeli Arabs love Israel
Adam LeBor, June 28th 2008, 6:29 pm

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/06/28/ ... /#comments

[prtyich]

The mindless racism and hatred of some people against Israel is quite entertaining. They are the TRUE BELIEVERS that it is simply impossible that Israel is a great country - and offers a much better quality of life than any arab muslim country.

But these people are so awash in hatred that they cannot fathom this, so they make excuses, create reasons to disbelieve the poll, try to develop a false "context" like "well it may be better by arab countries in someways, BUT it still sucks" or some other nonsense.

The strenuous efforts made to explain away this reality, which is obvious to any intelligent adult who has actually lived in the middle east, are simply laughable.

[Muck]

arthur, the title is from the blog i've found the story

Yeah, but you didnt link your source. Either way, lets scrap polls from TN. Cheesecake or apple pie?

[Tonic]

Yeah, but you didnt link your source.

Yes I did. Look the OP again. After the Haaretz story I also gave the blog

[Arthur2sheds_Jackson]

Tonic:

arthur, the title is from the blog i've found the story

Israeli Arabs love Israel
Adam LeBor, June 28th 2008, 6:29 pm

Ok it's not your spin it's Adam LeBor's.

Nowhere in the article HE quotes does it say 'love'.

Only in his headline.

Just like yours.

[Tonic]

Fair enough, arthur. I simply cinical towards Arab loyality for Israel. There is increasingly popular idea in Israel to merge Arabs of north-eastern Israel areas with a Palestinian Authority. The Arabs refused. They want to stay as Israeli citizens. Though they call Israel destruction.

Various folks have been throwing this proposal around in recent years, in part due to the radicalisation of some of the Israeli Arab political leaders, who have attended events in Syria calling for the desctruction of the State of Israel, and have made statements siding with Hezballah and Hamas. Some Israeli Jews responded by feeling that if they would prefer to be part of Palestine, rather than Israel, then redraw the border to make Wadi Ara part of the Palestinian Authority and in exchange annex Jewish majority areas of the West Bank.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pa ... mNo=380979

w w w . h a a r e t z . c o m

Last update - 13:32 08/01/2004
Between rocks and a hard place
By Vered Levy-Barzilai

Sheikh Hashem Abd al-Rahman Mahajana, the spokesman of the Islamic Movement...Abd al-Rahman, who is today the mayor of Umm al-Fahm...Under lock and key at the Kishon detention facility, Sheikh Salah and the leadership of the northern branch of the Islamic Movement decided that Sheikh Abd al-Rahman would be the movement's candidate for mayor in the local government elections, which were held last October.

On the day after the local elections, Abd al-Rahman found himself mayor of the second-largest Arab city in Israel (after Nazareth), the city that is widely perceived to be the capital of the Islamic Movement. The tones that emanate from the city are usually radical and militant.

What do you think about the idea of annexing Umm al-Fahm to the Palestinian Authority?

"Absolutely not. Ninety-three percent of the city's residents are against that, and I am one of them. This is our home, we are citizens like everyone else, and we have it good here."

What's so good here for you? What about all the complaints of persecution, oppression and discrimination?

"It's all true, as you know. Yet our situation here is still far better than it would be if we were in an Arab state. I admit it. I also say it in talks abroad. It's a fact. That doesn't mean that there is nothing to improve. There's plenty."

In the Occupied-Lebanon: where Hizbullah claims it want to liberate them

Shock in Ghajar: Israelis turned into refugees in Lebanon


Residents of northern village, about to be supervised by UN in unprecedented manner, remind State that 'we voted for Knesset, we paid taxed, and we have blue identity cards'

Hagai Einav Published: 12.04.06, 12:45

The village of Ghajar on the northern border has been subject to a feeling of uncertainty for almost seven years now. Since the Israel Defense Forces' withdrawal from Lebanon in May 2000, military forces have been stationed at the entrance to the village and are checking every vehicle entering or leaving.

About 2,100 residents live in Ghajar, some 1,550 of them in the northern part, the latter were surprised to hear in the media about the government's decision that they will be supervised by the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon and that IDF soldiers will be stationed on the 'Blue Line.'

The village's secretary, Najib Hatib, was furious: "We have been living without a mother or father for almost seven years. Who will take care of brining food to the babies? Who will take care of repairing electricity and phone problems? Perhaps the UN, perhaps the Lebanese army?"

"Two residents have already paid with their lives after suffering from a heart attack, when the ambulance was not allowed to enter the northern part of the village. Animals are treated better than Ghajar residents," he said.

Ghajar residents engage in industry and agriculture in the Upper Galilee and Golan Heights communities. They are seeking to correct the historical mistake, and stress that their village was occupied by the IDF in 1967 along with the Golan Heights territories, and therefore they in fact belong to Syria , rather than to Lebanon. They believe that any negotiations with Beirut on their future are wrong.

The Israeli suppliers stop every day at the checkpoint located at the entrance to the village and unload their goods.

Hatib charged that "there it is like the Karni crossing. They throw the merchandise, and the residents go out to bring it to the village themselves, as if we were living in the Gaza Strip.

"We are good enough to pay income tax and taxes, but we do not receive services and compensation from the property tax for the war damages, because we are not defined as a village officially belonging to the State of Israel. Everyone here, as you know, has a blue identity card."

'It's simply a nightmare'

A., a resident of the northern part of the village, told Ynet that reality had become intolerable.

"Some 120 Knesset members were elected eight months ago, and the village residents went to the voting stations to vote for them. Today no one cares about us. Hizbullah was not and is not in the northern part of the village.

"We are not threatened, and we just want to live like any other citizen. Our children are suffering from anxieties. How would a child in Tel Aviv or in Haifa feel if he would wake up every morning, and on the way to school he would see tanks, concrete surfaces and soldiers in every corner? It's simply a nightmare."

The village residents called on the prime minister and defense minister "to come here for a couple of hours and see for themselves how some of the residents of the State of Israel are living at the end of 2006."


Today, more than ever, they hope that one of the leaders will regain his composure and will not turn them into refugees in the split Lebanon.

Several residents replied to the suggestion to apply the evacuation-compensation law to the village with a smile: "They are ready to evacuate us at any minute. Regarding the compensation, they promise to check that 'you are still not part of the State of Israel.' Is this serious?"


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 63,00.html

The “separation barrier” that Israel has built to keep out Palestinians. However, many Arabs are moving into Jerusalem to take advantage of the residential permits. The exodus is evident. Streets are empty, the school roll has fallen from 1,500 to 500 pupils, blocks of flats have lost 80 per cent of their tenants and businesses have closed, moving north to Ramallah.

The Times December 04, 2006



The “separation barrier” that Israel has built to keep out Palestinians. However, many Arabs are moving into Jerusalem to take advantage of the residential permits (Peter Nicholls)


Israel's wall has forced Palestinians to move home - right into Jerusalem
Stephen Farrell, Jerusalem

Wealth and ID cards allow shift
Drastic changes to population

East to West, the flight has begun. Israel’s controversial “separation barrier”, expanding inexorably over wadis and high streets, is near completion along large stretches of its route. Slab by 30ft slab, it seals off Jewish-majority West Jerusalem to protect it from West Bank suicide bombers. Except that the wall designed to keep out Palestinians has driven thousands of them into inner Jerusalem.

Most East Jerusalem Arabs lucky enough to hold the much-prized Israeli Jerusalem identity cards granting them residency rights have already slipped inside the concrete curtain before its gates slam shut.

The result is drastic social and demographic changes to the outskirts of a Biblical city that is now twice-walled — from some vistas Ariel Sharon’s concrete legacy is clearly visible outside Suleiman the Magnificent’s Old City ramparts.

The “outer” neighbourhoods now lie half-deserted, abandoned by those able and wealthy enough to move.

In the “inner” suburbs the laws of supply and demand have doubled rents and increased land prices in Arab neighbourhoods and even — irony of ironies — forced the new arrivals into Jewish areas. “Many Arabs are moving into the settlements because they are very close to the Arab areas,” said Raed Jaber, a 27-year-old Arab from al-Eizariya, who now owns a creperie serving the overwhelmingly Jewish residents of the settlement of Pisgat Zeev.

“I’ll move in myself in a year or so when I get married,” he shrugs, dismissing antipathy from religious Jews who have leafleted the area urging residents not to rent to Arabs.

Taxis and commuters can still flit through a narrow gap left for builders to complete the final section, but this is expected to close within weeks. The exodus is evident. Streets are empty, the school roll has fallen from 1,500 to 500 pupils, blocks of flats have lost 80 per cent of their tenants and businesses have closed, moving north to Ramallah.

Increasingly discernible is the influx of poorer, socially conservative West Bankers, drawn by falling rents.

Yellow-plated Israeli car numberplates are being replaced by green Palestinian ones, more women are veiled, East Jerusalemites are disappearing from offices and classrooms, and shopkeepers have noticed the arrival of Jenin and Nablus accents, raising security concerns.

“The moment they started digging the wall here, people started packing and moving. Now 90 per cent of the homeowners have gone,” sighed Hani Bakir, 42. “Crime has increased, shops are being looted and houses broken into.”

“We had to move inside to keep our Jerusalem IDs, because of the health services, so my dad can get to work, to stay in contact with family and friends and simply to have access to Jerusalem without a permit,” she said.

A 2006 study by the refugee rights agency Badil found that 17.3 per cent of 5,100 Jerusalem Palestinians surveyed moved because of the wall.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 46,00.html

[Impulse]

This article is about Arabs that mentions nothing about Muslims.

No wonder they are so peaceful in Israel.

[Maas]

This article is about Arabs that mentions nothing about Muslims. No wonder they are so peaceful in Israel.

oh yes, because muslims never want to have peace on principle.... It's their religious thing

[yanovsky]

It’s no principle, just a blatant truth.

[Maas]

It’s no principle, just a blatant truth.

Since you and Impuls are new here I suggest you should read the rules. Generalising that others are like that, and spreading your hatered against entire groups are not allowed in this forum. That as well as trolling and 1 line posts.

Eventually, you'll get your ass kicked out here forever if you go on like this. You might as well leave this forum if this is being asked too much.

[QatzelOk]

So some Israeli media person jams a microphone in your face and asks you if you love Israel, you Arab you.

So you say yes to protect yourself. So this "poll" is worth absolutely nothing.

[Arthur2sheds_Jackson]

The poll appears to have a sample of just two people - Tonic and the cretin he quoted.

They are the only two people to claim any Israeli-Arabs 'love' Israel.

Absolutely no one else.

[Tonic]

QatzelOk

So some Israeli media person jams a microphone in your face and asks you if you live Israel, you Arab you. So you say yes to protect yourself. So this "poll" is worth absolutely nothing.

Qatz the poll was made by Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government

arthur_two_sheds_jackson

They are the only two people to claim any Israeli-Arabs 'love' Israel.

arthur, I can change the title to Arab "love" Israel. I was hesitate to add quotation marks to the word "love" but decided to left it as I've found in the British Marxist blog site. I don't accept the optimist view of Adam Lebor - "Arab love Israel".

[QatzelOk]

Qatz the poll was made by Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government

What possible difference does this make to the Arab person who is asked to reveal his feelings towards paranoid Israel?

Were the respondents whisked away by private jet to an undisclosed location immediately after answering?

[Tonic]

Qatz, if you read the rest of the thread you will found that only some starry eyed Western liberals believe the satisfaction will bring loyality. They just enjoy the welfare state benefits while paying only little taxes. Something they will don't get in any other Arab state.

I gave some examples here

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/view ... t=#1573246

[QatzelOk]

some starry eyed Western liberals believe the satisfaction will bring loyality

These "starry-eyed" Western "liberals" that you are talking about are thinking about applying behaviorism to a large group of people.

By thinking of ways to "induce loyalty" to the military colony that is Israel, these supposedly "liberal" thinkers are about as humanitarian as Dr Moreau. "Vee vill make zem loyal by makeeng them fat veet ze social velfares..."