[Independent_Srpska]

I think what Bosnjak meant was not only that the current borders of RS, but also the ethnic composition of its districts was changed through ethnic cleansing. However, if BiH were to be taken apart, the most practical basis for separation would be on ethnic lines, and now you have the situation that this ethno-geographic distribution was achieved through some rather non-Kosher means. In other words, many of the districts were Serbs now form an absolute majority did not have absolute Serb majorities before the war, so the argument goes that the Serbs would in effect be rewarded for ethnic cleansing.

a fair comment...

However, the fact is: Muslims and Croats started with ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Hercegovina. Believe it or not. But that's the fact!

Besides that , Bosnia and Hercegovina had completely different ethnic picture before WWII , not to mention WWI....not to mention the time before Ottomans....It wouldn't be fair not take that in account, right?

But, name to me a war in which there was no movement of population?

Here is an example of ethnic cleansing without a war ---> Let me just remind you of 17 March 2004 - when Albanians in Kosmet expelled more than 250.000 Serbs from Kosmet in couple of days and burnt down most of the Serbian churches (some of them 10 centuries old, protected by UNESCO) in front of eyes and cameras of NATO/EU/USA/UNMIK and other members of "international community" - what happened 4 years later? Who raised that argument when the West recognized Kosmet? Did Muslim Sarajevo raised that argument? Nope, Muslims in Sarajevo celebrated that in the streets - not realizing that they were celebrating dissolution of Bosnia and Hercegovina, too

[Dave]

You guys are all occupying Illyrian land anyway, time to clear out.

[Bosnjak]

as it was of Serb refugees settling from other regions (the Sarajevo peripheries for instance

This is absolute false some Orthodox left Sarajewo, because Karadzic said those who will find in the City we will also be slaughted, many Orthodox stayed... later Karadzic said to Alija this are your Serbs, die with them.

Neighobours of me were Serbs and they stayed, because they have adopted the Bosnian Mentality not to like orders, they were killed by a Serb Granade. There were also unfortunately Lynchings against some Orthodox who were accused to be Spies of Serbia.

The most prominent Ortodox Bosnjak is Jovan Divjak:




Look a foreign reporter was with the 5th Corpus of the Bosnian Army as they started an offensive to unify the Land:

The General Dudakovic gave also orders not to shoot on Serb refugees, you will see why no Bosnian Soldiers are accused of Genocide.

@Dave Lg1 is considered as Illyrian genmarker. Bosna is a Illyrian name.

[noemon]

@Noemon but was not there a dispute who is the leading bishop, the of Byzantion or those of Rome?

Yes there was, as I said from the time of the schism until St Sava. And that was mere politics, not anything religious in nature.

[Dave]

@Dave Lg1 is considered as Illyrian genmarker. Bosna is a Illyrian name.

Oh well, surely there's some group preceding the Illyrians who can kick all of you out then.

Here the issue is very straight forward, thank God. Us whites showed up and conquered the Indians. No muss, no fuss. Intrawhite conflicts are so confusing...we just have some good-hearted discrimination against the papists.

[LAz]

This is absolute false some Orthodox left Sarajewo, because Karadzic said those who will find in the City we will also be slaughted, many Orthodox stayed... later Karadzic said to Alija this are your Serbs, die with them.

Learn to spell SarajeVo.

Most of the serbs in sarajevo fled. Over 100,000 serbs were in sarajevo - and this was once a mainly serb city, keep that in mind!
At any rate, Only 30,000 were left there after the war, and most of those were in R.S. controlled territories.

you will see why no Bosnian Soldiers are accused of Genocide.

Serbs accuse them of doing that. When the bosniaks were taking over parts of western bosnia, their commander told them GO FORTH AND RAPE. We have that on tape too.

You guys are all occupying Illyrian land anyway, time to clear out.

That just made my day.

@Dave Lg1 is considered as Illyrian genmarker.

I tore up your gene hypocrisies. No need to bring that junk back.

[Independent_Srpska]

This is absolute false some Orthodox left Sarajewo, because Karadzic said those who will find in the City we will also be slaughted, many Orthodox stayed... later Karadzic said to Alija this are your Serbs, die with them.

I'm not quite getting what are you trying to bullshit, but are you mad? 160.000+ Serbs from Sarajevo left the city!
According to the statistics - before the war only Belgrade had more Serbs than Sarajevo! Sarajevo was the second Serb city in ex-Yugoslavia...

You know what a court-proven and sentenced fascist and fundamentalist Alija Izetbegovic ( the leader of BH-Muslims) said when Milosevic in Dayton sold out Serbs' parts of Sarajevo to Muslims?? Izmetbegovic publicly said in the newspapers:"I (pay attenton: he said -->> I) might spare the lives of women and children of Serbs who were fighting against Muslims! For others we will see..."....

Neighobours of me were Serbs and they stayed, because they have adopted the Bosnian Mentality not to like orders, they were killed by a Serb Granade. There were also unfortunately Lynchings against some Orthodox who were accused to be Spies of Serbia.

Well, I was in a trench with two Croats and some Muslims too, we all fought against fundamentalists, really....they did not want their country (Yugoslavia) to be ruined by fanatics from Muslim people...

Besides that, my friend's mother (who was a Croat) was torn apart by Muslim grenades shelling one of the Serb cities in Srpska....so, what it shows? Well,Muslims were killing everybody who was opposing their illegal actions....
Though, it is a well known fact that only Muslims in Bosnia and Hercegovina fought all three peoples --> which means Croats, Serbs and MUSLIMS (who were for peaceful solution of this unhappy conflict).....yes, there was an inter-Muslim civil war in the BH-war.....

[Bosnjak]

@Laz O.K. I do not have exact figures, I can only speak about friends of my family who were all members of Communist Party, also educated Orthodox.

Most originaly Sarejewians left the City after the War, has economical and psychological reasons, now are mostly Bosniaks from Serbia there.

My other Neighbours fled but not to Serbian occupied theritories, they fled to Germany.

Present please a source about, I would like myself to see if this is realy so. I thought he is accused of burning homes of Serbs, because he said "pali" means burn, but this could mean also shoot.


When I would be a Serb, I would also not want to believe in Genealogy.


@Dave We have seen several occupations and genocides, the last war wast the most desastreus, if we could survive this onslaught we will survive everything, and most of us are in the exile about 2/3, so if a war starts they sent all money and some come to fight. We are a small nation but we know how to fight and to survive. This time we are armed and we are united with our relatives the Hercegovinians.

@Spike Spiegel they killed even ethnically mixed children who were from one part Serb heritage. We consider them as our People.

[Independent_Srpska]

I was just trying to find the latest (today's) interview with Phillipe Morillon (UN General during the civil war in B&H) where he states that "International Community" made a huge mistake recognizing Bosnia and Hercegovina so soon....but I couldn't find it in English...

But I found this intereting article ....though, it is well known to the local people, it might be interesting for some other people to realize how a false media picture was created in the civil war in B&H....

http://www.historycommons.org/entity.js ... orillon__1

*

Mid-September 1992: Bosnia Muslims Stage Attack from Sarajevo Hospital to Discredit Serbians
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Lord David Owen arrives in Sarajevo as the new European Union peace negotiator. Owen is initially seen as anti-Serb and had recently advocated Western air strikes against the Bosnian Serbs. He is outraged that his arrival coincides with a Serb bombardment of the Kosevo Hospital in Sarajevo, Bosnia. But within hours, he learns that the incident was actually provoked by the Bosnian Muslims. He will later say, “The UN monitors actually saw the Muslim troops enter the hospital and, from the hospital grounds, firing at Serb positions. Then the mortar was packed up and removed as the television crew showed up. A few minutes later a retaliatory fire of course landed in or near the hospital and all was filmed for television.” UN Gen. Philippe Morillon immediately writes a letter to Bosnian President Izetbegovic: “I now have concrete evidence from witnesses of this cowardly and disreputable act and I must point out the harm such blatant disregard for the Geneva Convention does to your cause.” But the letter and information about the incident is not made public and the Serbs are the only ones blamed for the incident. Owen will later say, “I asked Morillon why didn’t he make this public, and he shrugged his shoulders [and said], ‘We have to live here.’” [Rothstein, 1999, pp. 176, 188]



Timeline Tags: Alleged Use of False Flag Attacks, Complete 911 Timeline
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January 1993 and After: Bosnian Muslims Sometimes Shell Sarajevo Airport that They Control
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Lord David Owen, European Union peace negotiator for the Bosnian conflict, will later write in a book, “Around this time [January 1993] the UN had clear evidence that Muslim forces would from time to time shell the airport to stop the relief flights and refocus world attention on the siege of Sarajevo. As the Deputy Commander in Chief US European Command from 1992 to 1995 [Gen. Charles Boyd] describes it, “The press and some governments, including that of the United States, usually attribute all such fire to the Serbs, but no seasoned observer in Sarajevo doubts for a moment that Muslim forces have found it in their interest to shell friendly targets. In this case, the shelling usually closes the airport for a time, driving up the price of black-market goods that enter the city via routes controlled by Bosnian army commanders and government officials.” [Owen, 1997, pp. 262] In September 1994, it is reported the UN believe the Muslim Bosnians again shelled their own Sarajevo airport on August 18, 1994. UN spokesman Lieutenant- Colonel Pierre Duclos says, “The result of all our investigations show the shell clearly came from [Bosnian] government lines,” he said. Another UN official says, “This was a direct and intentional targeting of the airport.” [Independent, 9/6/1994]

[Bosnjak]

@Srpska pleas use the official language

Bosnian government lines

.

You can so justify the Bombing of Hospitals, who knows if this blog is true, present a serious source, please.

What was with the Vukovar massacre, where you took wounded on the streets and shot them, and raped nurses?

My uncle was in this time Yugoslaw Army recruit as the Serbs overtook the controll over the Army.

[Independent_Srpska]

You can so justify the Bombing of Hospitals, who knows if this blog is true, present a serious source, please.

Well, if you look a little better you would notice pages from the books in these articles....they seem to be pretty serious sources....

But, everybody knew that Muslims from Sarajevo were killing their own people just for the sake of "good" TV story...that was not a big secret....

I have a friend (he is a Dutch) and he was an UNPROFOR officer in Sarajevo in 1992/1993. He says that all of them (UNPROFOR soldiers) ran for their lives when they saw Christian Ammanpour (of CNN) in the streets with camera boy....They knew something would explode, as it was arranged for her....

[LAz]

The serbs in vukovar were attacked, firstly, and they responded to attacks. Actually what happened was that serbian bodies were seen floating down the danube, and they did not want to be like those victims, so they fought back.

You can so justify the Bombing of Hospitals, who knows if this blog is true, present a serious source, please.

There was a case like this in the town of gorazde. The Bosniaks stationed their troops on the top of hospitals, so clearly we can see who the bad ones are.

[LAz]

To get back to the topic...

Bosnia’s predictable demise

Caleb Posner

Staff Columnist
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Published: Wednesday, November 5, 2008

Updated: Wednesday, November 5, 2008

Last week, Clinton stooge and Dayton Accords author Richard Holbrooke wrote an alarmist editorial that has slowly been gaining international media attention, wherein he expressed great concern over the continued existence of Bosnia. He offered a number of diplomatic remedies that might, according to him, prevent what seems like the otherwise inevitable collapse of another state in the Balkans. As was noted, the reason behind his article is that he regards the continued existence of modern Bosnia as essential. Rather than defend this position, this is an assertion he takes for granted, which ought not be the case. Truth be told, Bosnia has no historical legitimacy, is irrational in construct, and has been destined to fail from the start. While collapse of a state is rarely beneficial, especially in the powder keg of Europe, the way this situation is approached must be grounded in an appreciation for the region’s history and the present day realities, neither of which Holbrooke appears to firmly grasp.

Bosnia is not a nation of historic validity, but a disputed buffer region between the competing Serbian and Croatian nations, each of whom have legitimate claims to substantial portions of the land. Accordingly, it has been of a multi-ethnic character for centuries, and remains so today. However, this fuels substantial conflict in a region where multi-ethnic states have often proven themselves to be breeding grounds for violence and genocide, the overwhelming majority of which has always been directed against the Serbs. In a half-baked effort to pacify this battleground nation, the Dayton Accords created a federal system wherein there is a relatively weak national government, and two much stronger state governments. Republika Srpska hosts the nation’s sizable Serbian population, while the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina hosts the remaining Bosniak and Croat populations.

After many years of brutal warfare and chaos, both sides set national ambitions aside and worked together to rebuild. But, as seemed fairly obvious to any individual with a grasp of the true nature of the Balkans, this was short lived. Though we have not yet seen war, the rhetoric has become increasingly polarized. Those in the Federation have been pushing for drastic reforms that would shift all of the power into a strong central government, where they would make up the majority of the population and could thus run roughshod over the rights of the Serbian minority. In turn, this has inspired the highly moderate government of Republika Srpska to extend legitimacy to the idea of ending Bosnia, by way of becoming independent (or more reasonably merging with Serbia), should the need arise.

As the nation exists today, it is a tense union between two unlike factions with highly divergent agendas and interests. So why continue to prop it up? If the only justification is Balkans stability then the answer is not to add to the hasty patchwork keeping Bosnia as one nation, but to proactively develop and implement a more rational and permanent solution. That means separating Republika Srpska from the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina immediately, merging the former with Serbia. But what to do with the latter? Allowing it to become independent as is would be dangerous, since quite naturally the Croats would seek reunion with the motherland, and inspire yet another bloody conflict. As it happens, the ethnic divisions are presently such that the Croatian-dominated portions could be given to Croatia without much issue, allowing the Bosniaks to have a new state of their own. Wedged between the powers of the region, it would be kept in check, and its ability to provide a breeding ground for jihad and Islamism would be reduced by threat of invasion from the concerned neighbor states (this will be elaborated on in a future column).

'n some more...

[Bosnjak]

Richard Halbroke is allegedly Albanian Heritage, he wants to gain support for Kosovo (from Serbia), on our costs.

[LAz]

Holbrooke, or however his name is spelled, actually said that the west should intervene to preserve bosnia, or something like that. He said that there will probably be trouble in bosnia, and this article is not his, but it mentions something that he said. Richard is on the side of the bosniaks very much so, from what I know.

[Independent_Srpska]

Truth be told, Bosnia has no historical legitimacy, is irrational in construct, and has been destined to fail from the start.

Yes, this would be the best answer to this topic ---> "the future of 'bosnia' "

[Bosnjak]

Pregnant Bosniak Women burned alive in Srebrenica:

In order to prolong the suffering of innocent victims, Serbs around Srebrenica would barricade Bosniak women, children, and elderly men in abandoned houses and then set them on fire alive.



http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com ... ve-by.html

[ENGLISH ONLY - Rob]

[Independent_Srpska]

as you see - there is no future for artificial NATO creation - for a short while known as B&H

[LAz]

In order to prolong the suffering of innocent victims, Serbs around Srebrenica would barricade Bosniak women, children, and elderly men in abandoned houses and then set them on fire alive.

Why don't you through that shit out the door and look at what real observers have to say about the so called genocide...

The Bosnian Muslim men and older boys were singled out and the elderly, women and children were moved out or pushed in the direction of Tuzla and safety. It's a distasteful point, but it has to be said that, if you're committing genocide, you don't let the women go since they are key to perpetuating the very group you are trying to eliminate.

http://www.transnational.org/SAJT/featu ... enica.html

[Erebus]

Richard Halbroke is allegedly Albanian Heritage, he wants to gain support for Kosovo (from Serbia), on our costs.

On your costs, there won't be much support.