[Vladimir]

And also to add, we have actually offered the SLD to propose their own terms which we are still waiting for, so we can not be blamed for stubbornness at all, in fact much less so than all parties apart from RF.
We are willing to negotiate with the SLD, it is they who are split and can't decide what to do, which is resulting in overall stubbornness.
If the SLD doesn't want to be either dragged into the rightist swamp or split, it should negotiate with SN... these are the three options really

[Kon]

The union is based on protecting ourselves from rightists who want to ban our parties and crush dissent. We need to stand together against them initially, then we can duke it out.

The RF can stand against rightist without allying ourselves officially with non libertarian Marxists. If the Spanish Civil War has taught us anything, it's that "standing together initially and the duking it out" doesn't work.

[Subversive Rob]

I don't really think that the Spanish Civil War can be taken as giving any lessons, apart from possibly, sectarianism - especially sectarianism backed up by violence - fucks the left. It seems very unlikely that the anarchists would have lasted on their own without the support of the wider Republican forces and international assistance (for which we can translate - 'the assistance of the Soviet Union').

[Kon]

Assistance? Do you mean bending over and letting them purge their ranks?

[Subversive Rob]

The question remains though, without that, then what? Hence my point that it is difficult to learn any lessons from the Spanish Civil War.

[Kon]

While I would like to say that the legions of Spanish Workers would have followed Barcelonas example and joined the anarchist revolt, I know that the nation was at the time far too reactionary for this to occur. I suppose I concede.

I still maintain my opposition to non libertarian marxism.

[Red_Army]

I have to agree with Rob, every anarchist I talk to brings up the Spanish Civil War as their reason for not aligning with commies, and I think its rather foolish. You are right that the Stalinist purges were counter-productive, but without Stalinist assistance the republic would have collapsed MUCH quicker. The USSR was the only country to supply arms, and lets be honest, the native 'Stalinist' columns of Spanish fought much more effectively than the anarchist groups that spent most of their time in disorganization and routing.

Marxists should learn from mistakes past and I think our Marxist population is inclined to do so.

[HoniSoit]

I have to agree with Rob, every anarchist I talk to brings up the Spanish Civil War as their reason for not aligning with commies

Or the Russian Revolution.

The discussion about a coalition (or if people don't like this word, think instead what we are doing is combining votes to defeat the right-wing parties busy organising their own coalitions) is progressing.

I think there is a rough consensus on the part of RF members that it is a tactical decision to help prevent the prospect of a right-wing government; while in the meantime, RF would continue to serve as an oppositional party even if nominally in government because of the coalition.

Would that be acceptable to the SN?

[ingliz]

YES

[HoniSoit]

Excellent.

I will put forward some of my personal suggestion shortly, and would like also to hear others' opinions on SN's platform.

[HoniSoit]

Economic Platform
1. Bank nationalization Not simply nationalisation, but also control and management of the banks; efforts should also be made to democratise the management, rather than entirely managed by the government.
2. Heavy progressive tax It's better to specify how 'heavy' to distinguish ourselves from the SLD, for example.
3. Abolition of tax for low incomes, increases of tax on profits (50%?) I'd say a heavier tax on profit is needed. I'd suggest somewhere around 75%; any firm collapsing as a result of financial difficulties should be collectivised and managed by workers themselves
4. Price freezing or imposing of narrow price boundary (through buffer stock operation, which instead of being sold off can be used for charity) on staple items, namely those with a low price elasticity of demand Agreed.
5. Higher inheritance tax for capital inheritance (70%?) I'm leaning toward close to 100% even on the ground of the social democratic notion of equality of opportunity.
6. Abolition of interest rates on small loans, individual debts, minimisation of rent rates (and possibly abolition in some cases, as well as expropriation in certain cases) Agreed
7. Democratization of trade unions, namely via a transfer to a delegate base from the current representative one Agreed
8. Legislation for all employment contract negotiating to go through trade unions with membership as a prerequisite Agreed
9. Guarantee of legalization of factory occupations as "cooperatives", as well as expropriation and handing over to its workers of any enterprise in risk of being plundered by its owner. Agreed

By and large I agree with the economic platform but it probably should be re-written to group similar proposals together, to avoid repetition, and perhaps also to make some of the proposals more easily understood. May also include something on democratic planning of the economy to serve the interests of the people.

Social Platform

1. Freedom of political activity within unions and workplaces Agreed but perhaps could be put into the economic platform.
2. Universal and unabridged right to firearms I don't personally agree with this; I think workers/community-organised militias have the right to bear arms but not individuals.
3. A power division contract between workers' councils and state; we promise to push through in the parliament any demands councils make The notion of 'a power division' is a bit vague: what does it mean in practice?
4. Abolition of police, standing army, and nuclear program. Establishment of a universal workers' militia in their place. I think it's also helpful to emphasise the militia should be well-organised and democratised; but I don't think this proposal is feasible now given we are working within the capitalist parliamentary system.
5. Reservation of at least half of the court jury seats for worker council delegates Agreed.
6. Unlimited financial and material support to union, council and "cooperative" organisations as well as entrusting large local budgets to them Agreed. Though perhaps it's better to call it 'full' rather than 'unlimited' support?
7. 100% separation of church and state. Obviously.
8. Free universal healthcare Agreed
9. Free education from kindergarten to doctorate Does it also include technical education and continuing education?
10. Regulation of the entire education system by teachers' and students' councils Agreed

On the whole, I think it's a very good social platform but some of the proposals probably need to be further developed, and also should include entitlement to basic living standards including rights to adequate housing, education, food and water etc., and something on racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other forms of discrimination against social groups. Perhaps also something on the environment.

International Platform

1. Solidarity with workers of all countries Agreed.
2. Recognition of the right to self-determination for all oppressed nations Agreed and perhaps we can cite some specific examples?
3. Heavy taxes on the export of capital and outsourcing of jobs I'd instead suggest an international regulatory framework to restrict the movement of capital.
4. Against all imperialist wars and wars of aggression Agreed.
5. Abolition of NATO, the World Bank, IMF, WTO, and all other imperialist cliques & agreements. Should probably also mention they should be replaced by more democratic forms of international organisations.
6. Withdrawal of all military personnel from all foreign countries Agreed and perhaps should cite some of the current examples
7. Make decision making in foreign policy open and transparent to the people; Open publication of all secret treaties and actions made by the previous government Agreed and probably not feasible at this stage

Great international platform on the whole but may also include issues on refugees and illegal immigrants, and international assistance to less developed countries.

[ingliz]

May I suggest that all bona fide communes/collectives officially recognised by the RF be given tax free status and limited autonomy

[Brio]

I think there is a rough consensus on the part of RF members that it is a tactical decision to help prevent the prospect of a right-wing government; while in the meantime, RF would continue to serve as an oppositional party even if nominally in government because of the coalition.

Would that be acceptable to the SN?

Yes its acceptable to me at least.

On the whole, I think it's a very good social platform but some of the proposals probably need to be further developed, and also should include entitlement to basic living standards including rights to adequate housing, education, food and water etc., and something on racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other forms of discrimination against social groups. Perhaps also something on the environment.

You should probably add your policy on narcotics, especially since this is a big issue for me. Would all presently illegal drugs be legalized and if so how would such drugs be distributed? Would they be taxed and if so would the money from such taxes go into education, harm-reduction (i.e. needle exchanges) and rehabilitation?

[pikachu]

The USSR was the only country to supply arms

At the very least I've heard about small weapon shipments from Poland and Mexico but maybe my information is wrong.

[FallenRaptor]

Not simply nationalisation, but also control and management of the banks; efforts should also be made to democratise the management, rather than entirely managed by the government.

Given that this is a transitional program in a bourgeois parliament, I think there will be a limit as to how much we can democratize banks, but I understand what you're trying to say. I propose we try to put the banks under as much regulation of workers' councils as possible.

I'd say a heavier tax on profit is needed. I'd suggest somewhere around 75%; any firm collapsing as a result of financial difficulties should be collectivised and managed by workers themselves

75% might be too high at the moment, but we could perhaps go a little higher. I agree with workers' collectivization of failed businesses.

By and large I agree with the economic platform but it probably should be re-written to group similar proposals together, to avoid repetition, and perhaps also to make some of the proposals more easily understood.May also include something on democratic planning of the economy to serve the interests of the people.

Democratic planning along with full nationalization of all industries is our long term goal, but it's too early to demand that now. In our current parliamentary struggle, we want to create a bridge between a minimum program(social democratic reformism) and the maximum program(revolutionary socialism) so that it may be easier for the masses to eventually cross over from the former to the latter. We will take the suggestion of re-writing the economic platform for the future.

Also, Ingliz has proposed that SN adopts the policy of giving genuine communes/collectives tax-free status and a degree of autonomy out of good will towards RF. I'm in favor of adopting this, and I don't see why anyone in the party would object.

I don't personally agree with this; I think workers/community-organised militias have the right to bear arms but not individuals.

I believe that workers should be able to defend themselves both collectively and individually. Perhaps we can negotiate a few regulations on individual gun-ownership, but I'm against disarmament of individual citizens.

Does it also include technical education and continuing education?

I don't see why it wouldn't.

On the whole, I think it's a very good social platform but some of the proposals probably need to be further developed, and also should include entitlement to basic living standards including rights to adequate housing, education, food and water etc., and something on racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other forms of discrimination against social groups. Perhaps also something on the environment.

Good points.

I'd instead suggest an international regulatory framework to restrict the movement of capital.

Can you give more details on what this framework should look like and how it should function?

Should probably also mention they should be replaced by more democratic forms of international organisations.

Not sure about that given that most nations are under bourgeois democracy. I think we can talk more of international organizations after there are some socialist revolutions. The SN should work with and participate in international workers' organizations(which falls into the first point of the international platform).

[Sephardi]

Delete.

[Vladimir]

Soo are we going to edit the platform to adjust to the coalition consensus??

[Potemkin]

I think there is a rough consensus on the part of RF members that it is a tactical decision to help prevent the prospect of a right-wing government; while in the meantime, RF would continue to serve as an oppositional party even if nominally in government because of the coalition.

Would that be acceptable to the SN?

YES.

We are not trying to "assimilate" the RF into the SN. This coalition (or co-operation, if you dislike the word 'coalition') will merely be a marriage of convenience. The RF will be perfectly free to sleep in separate rooms if it wishes, or even file for divorce at any time.

Soo are we going to edit the platform to adjust to the coalition consensus??

I don't see any pressing need to impose a consensus on the RF - the RF is not going to agree with every policy of the SN, and we should not insist on such agreement. The SN and the RF will have separate policy platforms, but will agree to co-operate with each other nonetheless. Why try to enforce a consensus where none really exists?

[ingliz]

Potemkin:

The talks have moved on, if you modify your platform, as agreed, a hard left United Popular Front is possible, however, if you ally with the right wing SLD, and embrace reformism, all bets are off.

ingliz, SN(R)RF: Official note

[albionfagan]

Does the RF currently exist as an independent unit? If so why the fuck is it being subordinated to the Marxists who will only use them to garner support and then crush us when we are not expedient allies