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Political issues and parties in the USA and Canada.

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By Suska
#13704441
Please don't rely on videos to make your point.
By Canadianjoe
#13704447
Fair enough.

Switzerland is the closest definition to democracy in the world. The crime rate is extremely low. The poverty rate is also low. When a law or an act of war is to be debated it is left up to a referendum.

If you consider the number of guns per capita how is it the crime rate is so low? Could it be everyone has a mutual respect for the power of one another? Please keep in mind the military is deeply rooted in their culture.
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By Suska
#13704451
If you consider the number of guns per capita how is it the crime rate is so low?
How is crime rate be linked to guns per capita?

More to the point how is it not particularly Swiss to behave Swiss? What sort of law would make Americans behave like them? If you put a jockey on a camel is it then a race-horse?
By Canadianjoe
#13704457
Ok ....

I clearly stated that poverty is also low. Which you could also directly link to the low crime rate.


Can you think of war to which the Swiss did not remain neutral?
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By Suska
#13704458
The Swiss have never been neutral or they wouldn't be Swiss. That Swiss people are consistently on the Swiss side is to be admired I grant.
By Canadianjoe
#13704466
And as for what type of law would make Americans behave like the Swiss?


Why not leave it up to a referendum? :hmm:
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By lg11
#13704470
I don't think you can compare a small, landlocked alpine country with the United States. There are states within the US that are just as safe and well-functioning. Besides, poverty is low in most of northern/central Europe, Switzerland is no exception to that.
And as for what type of law would make Americans behave like the Swiss?

I guess a working welfare state, more vacation and less American television.
By Canadianjoe
#13704494
No you're right. You can't compare the two but there are some policies (ie: referendum) that could lend itself useful to American and Canadian politics.
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By Stormsmith
#13704538
I dunnnnooo

Switzerland is a lovely country, enjoyed every minute of it.

When I read aout their low crime rate, and thought about their banking system, it reminded me that not all crimes are caught and recorded. And they might benefit from some of our banking policies/regulations. Our banks didn't require a massive bail-out like the Swiss's did in '08.
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By Figlio di Moros
#13704588
Canadianjoe wrote:And as for what type of law would make Americans behave like the Swiss?


Deport all minorities. :borg:
By Canadianjoe
#13704595
The point is to not change policies that work for the US rather change the policies that do not. The social order is more in question than banking.

And banking?In general.

Well that is an argument in itself.

To say money is a primary motive over equality and social order is insanity.

Do I think we should be living in chalets eating chocolate? No.
By Rugoz
#13704602
When you look at socioeconomic indicators switzerland is hardly much different from other northern european countries of similar size. However, it is significantly more business-friendly than its continental cousins, less taxes, less regulation, etc. (with some exceptions). On the downside life is arguably more stressful here.

Could the political system be applied to the United States? With some adaptions yes (mostly regarding constitutional changes by ref/initiative), I'd say its pretty scalable. The switch to a consensus-based system could prove to be difficult though (mentality-wise).

On the other hand canada is a nice country, why change the system? :) (the same could be said about california though :lol: )
Last edited by Rugoz on 08 May 2011 19:17, edited 1 time in total.
By Canadianjoe
#13704627
Canadian and American politics are becoming more alike and although I have no proof you can expect the gap to narrow even further over the next four years.

For starters, one of harpers first attempts at 'change' is to reduce the number of federal seats in Quebec.
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By Figlio di Moros
#13704680
Rugoz wrote:Could the political system be applied to the United States? With some adaptions yes (mostly regarding constitutional changes by ref/initiative), I'd say its pretty scalable. The switch to a consensus-based system could prove to be difficult though (mentality-wise).


It wouldn't work as well over here. The US has more minorities, who traditionally perform worse(though, it should be pointed up that when you grade America by race, rather than as a whole, we all outperform our foreign counterparts). It also means we have less social capital, less unity. Referendum would end up suffering over hear do to these disparities.

There's also the fact that Switzerland is highly localized by canton(sic?), meaning most of your decisions impact only a very local area. The US, on the other hand, has a federal state encompassing 307 million and states varying from half a million to 30 million, which reduces the common interests initiatives rely on. Whereas they might work somewhat on a local level, the state level is far too large; even many of our cities are too large and diverse, not to mention embody large populations of low human capital, for it to be a very effective measure.

[it looks nice] ...the same could be said about california though


California has a perpetual deficit, one that makes Greece look like Norway. It also has, tmk, higher crime rates, more income inequality, and lower social capital than any other state. But, of course, vinyards, beaches, ski slopes and celebrities, amirite?

Rugoz wrote:When you look at socioeconomic indicators switzerland is hardly much different from other northern european countries of similar size. However, it is significantly more business-friendly than its continental cousins, less taxes, less regulation, etc. (with some exceptions). On the downside life is arguably more stressful here.


I would assume the surplus of ski slopes and machine guns would make for a good time. What's the avg. IQ and median wealth/Gini coefficient?
By Canadianjoe
#13705072
Average IQ in Switzerland is 101. And 10th worldwide.

Average IQ in US is 98. And 19th worldwide.
By Rugoz
#13705282
It wouldn't work as well over here. The US has more minorities, who traditionally perform worse(though, it should be pointed up that when you grade America by race, rather than as a whole, we all outperform our foreign counterparts). It also means we have less social capital, less unity. Referendum would end up suffering over hear do to these disparities.


Well, we don't have that kind of diversity for sure. Still we have 4 languages, and the french and italian part are culturally different than the german part. In other european countries this could be a source a permanent instability, take belgium as an example. The political system in switzerland is designed to be integrative and minority-friendly. Cantons and communities have great autonomy, all legislative chambers are elected by Proportional rep. (open party lists), the executive councils on all levels mostly include members from all parties, the seats in the federal council are given according to party strength and regional considerations (although elected by parliament).

I see your point, but I wonder in what regard the american system is more compatible with diversity.

There's also the fact that Switzerland is highly localized by canton(sic?), meaning most of your decisions impact only a very local area.


I would not say that, no. We are still a nation after all.

I would assume the surplus of ski slopes and machine guns would make for a good time. What's the avg. IQ and median wealth/Gini coefficient?


IQ? Are you one of those guys..

GINI is 0.276 (Denmark: 0.232, US: 0.381, OECD data)
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By Figlio di Moros
#13705855
Canadianjoe wrote:Average IQ in Switzerland is 101. And 10th worldwide.

Average IQ in US is 98. And 19th worldwide.


Again, more minorities- avg. IQ of blacks, 85, 12% of the population; avg. IQ of hispanics, 92, 17% of the population and growing. White America's avg. IQ is 102, comparable to other white nations.

Rugoz wrote:Well, we don't have that kind of diversity for sure. Still we have 4 languages, and the french and italian part are culturally different than the german part. In other european countries this could be a source a permanent instability, take belgium as an example. The political system in switzerland is designed to be integrative and minority-friendly. Cantons and communities have great autonomy, all legislative chambers are elected by Proportional rep. (open party lists), the executive councils on all levels mostly include members from all parties, the seats in the federal council are given according to party strength and regional considerations (although elected by parliament).


None of which is really compatable with America. The US is the third largest geographic state, third largest population, and has large minority populations with a huge disparity in human capital.

Rugoz wrote:I see your point, but I wonder in what regard the american system is more compatible with diversity.


Is any large state "compatible with diversity"? Switzerland's unique because you're small enough to benefit from tax sheltering and tourism, allowing you to have a weaker central government and mroe localization, minimizing collaboration between your different peoples. Larger states, however, require more central direction, and diversity inhibits that.

Rugoz wrote:I would not say that, no. We are still a nation after all.


*State

Nation refers to a people of the same ethnicity, language, religion, and culture. I apologize if it appears I'm splitting hairs, but it's an important distinction.

Rugoz wrote:I would assume the surplus of ski slopes and machine guns would make for a good time. What's the avg. IQ and median wealth/Gini coefficient?

IQ? Are you one of those guys..

GINI is 0.276 (Denmark: 0.232, US: 0.381, OECD data)


Yes, I am.... what's wrong with using IQ?

I was asking, because I had the idea Switzerland had more more educated, professional(and wealthy) immigrant population. The mid-twenties isn't so bad, I would think the low levels of inequality would make for more social contentment.
By Canadianjoe
#13706872
What's wrong with using iq?



You have to understand when measuring IQ you have to consider how accessible proper information is to the pupil. IE: peers, teachers, culture,parents, environment

To use the text book standard of measuring IQ at face value is perhaps unfair. For instance, a child in say Africa may have the aptitude and brain capacity to be a 180 IQ but because of his/her environment or lack there of the child would bomb an IQ test graded by American standards.


If you compare the social equality between white America and say black America the learning institutions drastically vary as well.

Are the minorities more likely to vote in favor of war? Or mandatory prison? Would white america vote in favor of war knowing black america has an equal say?After all this to me seems to be where much of the social inequality exists in the US.
By ness31
#13706979
Yes, I like the Swiss model also. It's my dream to see Australia become the Switzerland of the Asia Pacific as opposed to Dubai. Something tells me I'm in a minority though. :|

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