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Political issues and parties in the nations of Africa.
Forum rules: No one line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum, so please post in English only.
#13818695
Libya is a country that has made much progress under Gaddafi. Libya during gaddafi's peaked at a GDP of 93.2 Bn! There was an increase in adult literacy from 40% to 88% and GDP per capita is currently at 17,000.

So my question is, why were the people of Libya so dissatisfied? What made the population go from loving Gaddafi to hating him so much? Some say that the United States somehow changed the perceptions of the population, it seems that the second the US is not pleased with a dictator they dispose of the him. Libya was a state that safeguarded its oil reserves and kept it from the prying hands of the Us. Look at monarchy in Saudi, it seems that as soon as the Saudis decide to keep the oil for themselves the US may decide to dispose of the 'dictatorship' there too.
#13819413
MAD_mir wrote:Libya is a country that has made much progress under Gaddafi. Libya during gaddafi's peaked at a GDP of 93.2 Bn! There was an increase in adult literacy from 40% to 88% and GDP per capita is currently at 17,000.

So my question is, why were the people of Libya so dissatisfied? What made the population go from loving Gaddafi to hating him so much?


Believe it or not but people don't like it when they can get locked up without a trial and be tortured, at any given moment, they also don't like their leaders stashing $200 billion in Swiss bank accounts and they don't like their leader being a senile madman who changes policy every other minute (for example: he once instated a law that said every tennant would suddenly become the owner of their dwelling, completely raping the economy, only to reverse it a couple of years later), finally they don't like their leader to continually bring their country into conflict with (potential) trading partners and suffer economocially for it. The successful revolutions in two neighboring countries finally lit the fuse.
#13819424
THey didn't. Islamists based in the east of the country and some tribes in the westrn mountains managed to take control through NATO backing. Their little religious crusade was about to be stamped out before nato decided that regime change and a puppet state looked tempting. Sadly this is yet another regime the west won't control for very long, and the long term effect will be rather unfortunate indeed.

Obvious sign of military dependence on their puppet masters: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -year.html
#13867806
Libya is a country that has made much progress under Gaddafi.


During Gaddafi's dictatorship, there has been no progress whatsoever and if anything, he has brought the country back at least 100 years. The education system is poor as well as the health care. Even though Libya is rich in oil, the citizens greatly suffer economically and this is because Muammar Gaddafi was selfish enough to keep all the money to himself and stashing it away in banks.

I also understand that the Libyans never loved Gaddafi. From the very beginning of his brutal dictatorship, he threatened the Libyans not to turn against him by massacring and publicly hanging innocent people all because they protested against his regime. Therefore, the Libyans were afraid and didn't have the courage to stand up against him until the Arab uprising.

I would also like to say that yes, Nato did an excellent job and truly helped the Libyans. However, you must remember that it was the Libyans on the ground, they were the ones that fought and sacrificed their lives for the country. Their bravery and courage should be recognised, as without them also, the toppling of the regime would never have succeeded! They are Libya's heroes.
#13868867
When one is being bombed for so many months, then I think it's kinda expected that people would cave in and give up.


quick quote...
There is undeniable evidence that contrary to the spontaneous, unarmed and peaceful protest demonstrations in Egypt, Tunisia and Bahrain, therebellion in Libya has been nurtured, armed and orchestratedlargely from abroad, in collaboration with expat opposition groups and their local allies at home. Indeed, evidence shows that plans of “regime change” in Libya were drawn long before the insurgency actually started in Benghazi; it has all the hallmarks of a well-orchestrated civil war [1].

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... &aid=25317
#13869142
MAD_mir wrote:There was an increase in adult literacy from 40% to 88%


Really? Literacy increased after almost half a century, stunning! I thought societies don't change and improve at all over half a century. I love it when people praise "great leaders" for positive developments over long periods of time, as if it wouldn't happen anyway under any other leader like in most of the world :lol:

So my question is, why were the people of Libya so dissatisfied?


Frequent public hangings of students deemed to be "politically active" up until the 90's, arbitrary imprisonment and torture, assassination of dissident Libyans abroad, shitty healthcare and education, neglect of the east of the country where he was never liked, killing of 1200 prisoners in Abu Salim, violent suppression of frequent protests in the east long before the 2011 uprising...

People don't like their children and siblings killed, imprisoned and tortured over someone's personality cult and political paranoia.

What made the population go from loving Gaddafi to hating him so much?


The population loved Gaddafi? How would you know that? He was never elected, his legitimacy stems from nothing.

Look at monarchy in Saudi, it seems that as soon as the Saudis decide to keep the oil for themselves the US may decide to dispose of the 'dictatorship' there too.


Why would they "keep the oil for themselves"? The very reason why Saudi Arabia is so rich is because they sell oil to other countries. And their oil company is nationally owned, not sold out to the west. Saudi is a welfare state and economically speaking, a pretty decent place to live compared to the rest of the middle east.
#13869168
I think they disliked the colour green. The country is drab brown and yellow, so why would Kaddafi choose that flag? Also, there's the issue of his sons partying in Saint Barts' with all those naked ladies...it really bugs Muslims when they hear about those shenanigans

Yesterday the Times reported that Qaddafi’s son Muatassim, Libya’s national security adviser, had hired Beyoncé and Usher to entertain at his New Year’s Eve party in St. Barts. Another Qaddafi son, Seif al-Islam el-Qaddafi, reportedly paid Carey $1 million to sing four songs at the previous year's New Year's party, also in St. Barts. Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... z1j49VFS7U


AND

As the Qaddafi clan conducts a bloody struggle to hold onto power in Libya, cables obtained by WikiLeaks offer a vivid account of the lavish spending, rampant nepotism and bitter rivalries that have defined what a 2006 cable called “Qadhafi Incorporated,” using the State Department’s preference from the multiple spellings for Libya’s troubled first family.

The glimpses of the clan’s antics in recent years that have reached Libyans despite Col. Qaddafi’s tight control of the media have added to the public anger now boiling over. And the tensions between siblings could emerge as a factor in the chaos in the oil-rich African country.

Though the Qaddafi children are described as jockeying for position as their father ages — three sons fought to profit from a new Coca-Cola franchise — they have been well taken care of, cables say. “All of the Qaddafi children and favorites are supposed to have income streams from the National Oil Company and oil service subsidiaries,” one cable from 2006 says.

A year ago, a cable reported that proliferating scandals had sent the clan into a “tailspin” and “provided local observers with enough dirt for a Libyan soap opera.” Muatassim had repeated his St. Barts New Year’s fest, this time hiring the pop singers Beyoncé and Usher. An unnamed “local political observer” in Tripoli told American diplomats that Muatassim’s “carousing and extravagance angered some locals, who viewed his activities as impious and embarrassing to the nation.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/world ... ables.html

Also, there's this report about this humane and wonderful family, the Qaddafi clan, treatment of their servants:

Though it's likely to be a long recovery process, the badly burned nanny of Muammar Gaddafi's grandchildren has just begun receiving treatment in a Tripoli hospital this week.

As CNN is reporting, Shwygar Mullah is finally beginning to get the antibiotics and medical attention she needs after allegedly being brutally abused at the hands of Hannibal Gaddafi's wife, Aline. According to Mullah, Aline repeatedly scalded her with boiling water when she refused to beat one of the children.

After she was discovered at a ransacked Gaddafi family residence Sunday, the 30-year-old Mullah said she had never been paid for her work.

Doctors who spoke to CNN with surprising candor said actually began treating Mullah back in June, but say they were ordered to stop treatments after being bullied by the Gaddafi family. "There's no humanity," Dr. Rowida Zawiya said. "...Maybe they're insane."

Watch Dan Rivers' incredible report here (WARNING: contains graphic imagery)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/3 ... 42561.html

I think this qualifies the whole family as criminals and therefore, in spite of the wonderful things they did for the country, they all should be put on trial and then if they are found guilty they should be put in jail or executed, as may be indicated.
#13904078
MAD_mir wrote:Libya is a country that has made much progress under Gaddafi. Libya during gaddafi's peaked at a GDP of 93.2 Bn! There was an increase in adult literacy from 40% to 88% and GDP per capita is currently at 17,000.

So my question is, why were the people of Libya so dissatisfied? What made the population go from loving Gaddafi to hating him so much? Some say that the United States somehow changed the perceptions of the population, it seems that the second the US is not pleased with a dictator they dispose of the him. Libya was a state that safeguarded its oil reserves and kept it from the prying hands of the Us. Look at monarchy in Saudi, it seems that as soon as the Saudis decide to keep the oil for themselves the US may decide to dispose of the 'dictatorship' there too.


The people never loved Khadafi.. The tribes never united behind him.

Libya was making huge and rapid gains in education and infrastructure BEFORE Kahdafi..During the period between 1951 and 1969 when King Idris was in power.. and they had an amazing Constitution based in Muslim and Italian law that guaranteed equal rights regardless of ethnicity, religion, tribal affiliation or economic status. Khadafi instantly threw out their constitution...

In 1969 Libya was producing about 5 million barrels a day.. When Khadafi took power, he hired Abdullah Tariki as oil minister.. Tariki hated the Americans and insisted that Khadafi nationalize the oil companies .. Libyan oil production fell to 1.6 million bpd..

You may recall that Saudi Arabia fired Tariki, but Khadafi was young and stupid so Libyan oil was nationalized prematurely.

Khadafi also kicked out the british base at Tobruk and the US base at Wheelus... both were rapidly bringing a certain cosmopolitan infuence to Libya.. particularly in the arts.

Khadafi was a bedouin boy.. uneducated, uncouth, delusional .. He hated all the other Arab leaders and frequently threw fits and threatened their lives.

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