[Red Aegis]

Note: I posted this in the Communism forum, but thought I should post it in this one too since they are separate. This is not spam.

Does anyone have any strong opinions of Left-Wing Nationalism (LWN)? What it is, in short, is holding the belief that individual groups have the right to self-determination with freedom from outside oppression and control. It is not chauvinistic or imperialistic in any sense and actively discourages such views and behavior, since such would be violating the rights of the other groups for their self-determination. It also holds that the best method for running the economy is through Socialism and Communism. The type of Socialism or Communism that I prefer is Revolutionary Syndicalism, but that is a side-note.

I come from another forum, but was wondering what this one thought of the concept.

Any takers?

[Bounce]

So national pluralism?

If the nations are separate, it sounds close to fascism.

[J Oswald]

Note: I posted this in the Communism forum, but thought I should post it in this one too since they are separate. This is not spam.

Do not post the same thing repeatedly (Spamming). Even (in fact especially) if it has been deleted by a moderator for whatever reason. This includes posting the same thing in multiple forums (cross-posting).

Bold, italics, and underlining is mine.

If by the "Communism forum" you are referring to Soviet Empire, that is different.

I come from another forum.

There are no other forums.

[Red Aegis]

Well it got approved and it wasn't malicious so what's your point? Did you just post to try and make me look stupid?

It doesn't matter. Do you have an opinion on the actual subject matter? I'm still interested in your opinion.

[Red Aegis]

So national pluralism?

If the nations are separate, it sounds close to fascism.

Fascism requires class collaboration and a totalitarian state, which I said that I do not advocate at all. There would also be nothing preventing nations from joining together voluntarily, it just would be required to be democratically decided upon. Do you have any other questions?

[J Oswald]

Well it got approved and it wasn't malicious so what's your point?

That you should be aware of the forum rules. I should also add that the forum forbids double posts. The ''edit' function is in the top right-hand corner of your posts - if you wish to add additional content, then you should use that.

Do you have an opinion on the actual subject matter?

What's there to really say? Nationalism and most aspects of socialism are not diametrically opposed to one another - it's perfectly possible for them to coexist.

[Red Aegis]

I agree, but that view is usually seen as controversial in my experience. I suppose that you are one of the more reasonable ones.

[Rei Murasame]

Sounds nice, but how would you get any of this done without inevitably creating the totalitarian state that you were trying to avoid creating, during the process of carrying out the revolution?

There would be a rupture between this present order and the one you want to see, and in that rupture there would have to be a transition to the total supremacy of the ideas you are advocating. Otherwise it would backslide into liberal-capitalism again just because people with lots of resources would be free to use their influence to undermine the transition.

[Red Aegis]

Are you asking to learn about Revolutionary Syndicalism? Well it is fairly similar to a DeLeonist stance so it would be about building up organization and structures such that the capitalists can just be "shaken off" of the process. I can recommend some works by DeLeon and others if you like but this thread isn't meant to deal with whether or not Socialism can work without Authoritarianism.

[Tribbles]

Recently, a Norwegian artist went to North Korea and made a TV-show about his art-project over there.

Pyongyang seemed like a very nice place - but I have heard that the North-Korean countryside is bad.

Nice uniforms, strict people with integrity, and lots of parades seems nice to me. Specially when they are polite enough to actually applaud the weird show he made for them. (The north-Koreans even set up a band to play for them when they celebrated the Norwegian national day, but that was before the premiere of his show at the local theatre)

But I see no reason to be as hostile against tradition as the communists are, and neither do I see any reason to destroy all elements of free-market enterprise.

So if I was in charge of North-Korea, I would try to ally my self with some foreign investors, and make the people construct cars or furniture for foreign companies in exchange for cash. To begin with everything must be government-controlled, but in time it might evolve into a mixed-economy corporative set-up - hopefully with local companies popping up as well.

But one must not forget to be strict though, both socialism (but perhaps not marxism? As it is kind of anarchistic?) and traditionalism - perhaps with religious influence - can work as theories of strictness, that hinders the development of liberalism and individualism.

[Conscript]

Nation-fetishizing rubbish. There's not much more to be said.

[Red Aegis]

Recently, a Norwegian artist went to North Korea and made a TV-show about his art-project over there.

Pyongyang seemed like a very nice place - but I have heard that the North-Korean countryside is bad.

Nice uniforms, strict people with integrity, and lots of parades seems nice to me. Specially when they are polite enough to actually applaud the weird show he made for them. (The north-Koreans even set up a band to play for them when they celebrated the Norwegian national day, but that was before the premiere of his show at the local theatre)

But I see no reason to be as hostile against tradition as the communists are, and neither do I see any reason to destroy all elements of free-market enterprise.

So if I was in charge of North-Korea, I would try to ally my self with some foreign investors, and make the people construct cars or furniture for foreign companies in exchange for cash. To begin with everything must be government-controlled, but in time it might evolve into a mixed-economy corporative set-up - hopefully with local companies popping up as well.

But one must not forget to be strict though, both socialism (but perhaps not marxism? As it is kind of anarchistic?) and traditionalism - perhaps with religious influence - can work as theories of strictness, that hinders the development of liberalism and individualism.

Yeah, no. I'm not a fascist, nor do I like North Korea. I'm socially liberal as well. In fact I am staunchly anti-authoritarian.

[Red Aegis]

Nation-fetishizing rubbish. There's not much more to be said.

Could you go into more detail there please?

[Rei Murasame]

I can recommend some works by DeLeon and others if you like but this thread isn't meant to deal with whether or not Socialism can work without Authoritarianism.

Fair enough, do give us a list though, since it might help us to understand where you're coming from.

[Red Aegis]

Sure. DeLeon and Michael Albert are good sources. There are many more though.