Tata Steel workers agree to pension cuts to save 8,000 jobs - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14776522
The Guardian wrote:Tata Steel UK workers have voted in favour of proposals to turnaround the struggling business, potentially saving 8,000 jobs but also leading to cuts to their pension benefits.

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Workers from the Community, Unite, and GMB unions all backed the plan in separate ballots. Approximately three quarters of votes supported the proposals, which involve saving the Port Talbot steelworks in south Wales.

Tony Brady, national officer at Unite, said steelworkers have made “great sacrifices” to try to protect the industry’s future.

Tata Steel had proposed saving 8,000 jobs in its UK business and the Port Talbot steelworks by investing £1bn into modernising its operations over the next 10 years.

However, this investment depends on spinning off the pension fund behind Tata Steel UK into a separate entity and replacing the final salary pension scheme with a less generous contribution scheme.

The existing scheme – the British Steel pension scheme (BSPS) – could enter the Pension Protection Fund (PPF) as part of the arrangement, which would result in a 10% cut to members’ benefits. However, for this to occur Tata Steel must convince the pensions regulator that its UK business is on the brink of insolvency and is likely to have to pump hundreds of millions of cash into the scheme.

The BSPS has 130,000 members and £15bn of liabilities. It would be by far the biggest pension scheme to be taken on by the PPF.

The steel jobs have been at risk since last March when Tata Steel announced it was putting its UK business up for sale amid losses of more than £1m a day. The decision sparked a political crisis as the government scrambled to secure the future of the plant. Port Talbot is one of only two sites in Britain that makes steel in blast furnaces.

The government welcomed the result of the vote. A spokesperson said: “This positive vote is an important step forward for the future of Port Talbot and Tata Steel in the UK and it is now vital that all parties work together to deliver on the agreed proposals.

“It is testament to the commitment of its workforce that they are willing to work so constructively with the owners to secure the future of the plant. The government will play its role in supporting the steel industry to help deliver a sustainable future.”

Guardian
#14776693
Decky wrote:Nationalisation would sort it all out. The state can't run out of money when the state prints the notes. Free British steel for all state building projects!


The state can't run out of money but the people can when their money aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
#14776698
Yea, it is an IOU that that state says you have to accept. It would be awkward for the site to just pay me in cider after all. They would have to keep it all in the shed with the materials. What if it got stolen or we all started drinking it in the middle of the day? Money is much better.
#14776732
Decky wrote:Yea, it is an IOU that that state says you have to accept. It would be awkward for the site to just pay me in cider after all. They would have to keep it all in the shed with the materials. What if it got stolen or we all started drinking it in the middle of the day? Money is much better.


Thank you, Decky. You are an excellent political economist. As for money, it is nothing but a cypher. All it does is apportion access to already existing wealth, while providing incentives for the creation of new wealth. Your critics know nothing of money or inflation. Inflation is literally impossible in an economy with the amount of slack we have in the West. Growing overcapacity, under- and unemployment, nonexistent demand, stagnating wages. We ain't gonna be worrying about inflation for a long while.

But here's an alternative suggestion: let the government dispense all pensions and remove the competitive burden from UK manufacturers.
#14776757
Tata should also cut the amount of pay for upper level management, like give less to the CEO, CFO, and accounting staff. That would help a bit too.

Decky wrote:Yea, it is an IOU that that state says you have to accept. It would be awkward for the site to just pay me in cider after all. They would have to keep it all in the shed with the materials. What if it got stolen or we all started drinking it in the middle of the day? Money is much better.


I remember learning that if the government prints too much, the currency is further devalued and US money is devalued enough since it is not backed by gold. All the QE's have not helped with the value either. QE=quantitative easing.
#14776853
MistyTiger wrote:Tata should also cut the amount of pay for upper level management, like give less to the CEO, CFO, and accounting staff. That would help a bit too.



I remember learning that if the government prints too much, the currency is further devalued and US money is devalued enough since it is not backed by gold. All the QE's have not helped with the value either. QE=quantitative easing.

Because it has inflationary effects (Too much money in circulation chasing finite scarce goods).
#14776963
MistyTiger wrote:Tata should also cut the amount of pay for upper level management, like give less to the CEO, CFO, and accounting staff. That would help a bit too.


They could just cut the upper management themselves instead.

Image

MistyTiger wrote:I remember learning that if the government prints too much, the currency is further devalued and US money is devalued enough since it is not backed by gold. All the QE's have not helped with the value either. QE=quantitative easing.


I've never seen any evidence for that. The government prints free money all the time, mostly to spend on wars or to give to failed bankers as a reward for failing and yet inflation is tiny. I have been in my overdraft for nearly a year and it barely costs me anything.
#14777029
Sigh...

Currency has no inherent value, only relative value to either 1) other currencies or 2) goods it is able to buy. This is true even under a gold-backed currency: the discordance between the gold-backed value of the dollar and its relative value to other currencies eventually forced the US off the gold standard. It was not a voluntary decision. A hard-money economy is incompatible with modern capitalism, which is why it will never see daylight, Ron Paul notwithstanding.

The death of the gold standard is a good, and necessary, thing.

As for inflation, you have to remember the printing presses run in both directions. There is a constant balance between the annihilation of money (through taxes, asset value collapse, etc.) and creation of money (fiscal spending, bank lending, asset rises, etc.). QE is basically a wash monetarily, since it basically substitutes one maturity for another; some economists are arguing that QE over time adds to the deflationary load. The creation of money after 2008 came nowhere close to matching the massive deflationary holocaust of the crash itself - this relative shortfall is the main reason we have had anemic job growth the past decade.
#14777087
MistyTiger wrote:Well the price of gas has gone up a lot. A gallon used to be 25 cents, 1.33 in the 90s, and now around 3.25. It could exceed 4 dollars under the current administration, no doubt. Inflation is significant. There are so many other instances.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using PoFo mobile app


That's how they do it, Misty. Wage inflation is very well controlled, and that's all the Fed ever reacts to. No one ever gets hot over asset price inflation, do they? That's because of who owns the assets.

There is an unconscious confirmation effect that happens all the time. People notice when prices go up, but they don't notice them when they go down, nor do they perceive total price inflation, just bits and pieces of it. No western nation CB has hit its inflation goal over the past decade. 2% a year inflation is not unreasonable, as long as wages are not deliberately suppressed as well.
#14777129
quetzalcoatl wrote:No western nation CB has hit its inflation goal over the past decade.


Unless "CB" has some special meaning this is a flat out lie.

Decky wrote:I've never seen any evidence for that.


The funny thing about commies, they have no fucking clue about economics. It's hilarious, because they actually believe the current economic system is responsible for all the world's ills. Given their belief, one could expect them to get off their lazy asses and study the subject.
#14777146
Rugoz wrote:Unless "CB" has some special meaning this is a flat out lie.


CB is, as usual, central bank. By 'not meeting their inflation targets' I specifically mean to say they are undershooting.

"the Bank of Korea set its inflation target for 2016 to 2018 to 2 percent -- down from 2.5 percent to 3.5 percent for 2013-2015 -- citing weaker demand, aging, and intensified price competition in global and local markets.

Meanwhile, Japan’s central bank appears to be bowing to reality on its commitment to a two-year time frame for meeting its 2 percent inflation target. Announced three years ago, it was intended to underscore a determination to drive prices higher. Instead, the repeated failure to meet forecasts for hitting the goal has eroded its credibility.

The European Central Bank has missed its target of inflation just under 2 percent for more than three years and updated projections last week showed it doesn’t foresee reaching the goal before at least late 2018. The current rate is 0.2 percent and even Germany -- with record-low unemployment and interest rates that are probably too low for its economy -- posted data on Tuesday showing consumer-price gains at just 0.3 percent.

U.S. prices also remain tame, belying strength in other areas such as housing and clouding the policy outlook. Federal Reserve Governor Lael Brainard said on Monday that with little need to lean against an overshoot of inflation or employment, there’s no reason to rush to raise interest rates at this month’s meeting.

So with CPI undershooting, the flexibility in time frames that typically accompany inflation targets is being stretched..."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... e-it0ezayf

Deflationary pressures underlie the economy, and they have done so since the '08 crash. Unless western nations are willing to ditch monetarism and engage in old-fashioned fiscal stimulus, the next crash will finish the job started by the last.
#14777185
So with CPI undershooting, the flexibility in time frames that typically accompany inflation targets is being stretched...

CPI is dubbed the Chav Price Index in Britain because it measures the prices of cheap tat that the underclass can buy, whilst ignoring the two biggest costs people face- housing and transport. This allows employers to provide above inflation pay rises that don't keep up with the cost of living since house prices double every 7 years in London.
#14777332
The funny thing about commies, they have no fucking clue about economics. It's hilarious, because they actually believe the current economic system is responsible for all the world's ills. Given their belief, one could expect them to get off their lazy asses and study the subject.


Communists are not lazy, we work in factories, warehouses, building sites, mines, all sorts of productive industries. It is the capitalists who sit as desks all day tugging their dicks and contributing nothing of any real value to the world.
#14777484
Decky wrote:
Communists are not lazy, we work in factories, warehouses, building sites, mines, all sorts of productive industries. It is the capitalists who sit as desks all day tugging their dicks and contributing nothing of any real value to the world.


The majority of capitalists work retail or in restaurants, not all of them can get desk jobs. I also think there is an increase in people who work from home and/or have their own small business. They want more flexibility and not have to put up with the standard 40 hour week and the stresses from conventional bosses.

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