Trump and West Rattle the Democrat Establishment - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14953272
Prolog

The Democratic party's long-term strategy from the 1930s was to ally with working class people. However, as working class people moved up into the middle class and beyond, their loyalty to the Democratic party waned. A classic example of this is Irish, German and Italian Catholics. One faction the Democrats have held on to since that time is black Americans. Prior to the welfare system and after the Civil War, blacks voted almost uniformly for the Republican party. This is because the Republicans ended slavery and pushed for Civil Rights for in excess of 100 years. The Democrats fought to maintain slavery, and after losing that fight they implemented Jim Crow. The Democrats even re-introduced segregation into the Federal government in the 1920s under Woodrow Wilson.

Yet, the Democrats were able to peel off black voters and make them uniformly a Democratic Party voting bloc. This started with Franklin Roosevelt and Social Security. Older blacks were uniformly broke at the time. Social security checks were more steady income than most of them had seen in their lives, and it began a dramatic shift in black voting from the Republican party to the Democrats. In spite of the Republicans finally passing the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Democrats increased their hold on black voters with the Great Society--even though the nascent breakup of black families could already be traced to the welfare system.

Since the Reagan years, conservatives have picked up on liberal stalwart Daniel Patrick Moynihan's report on the effect of welfare on the black family. However, it has rarely done much to peel off many black voters from the Democratic party.

Trump and West

Donald Trump has had a long career in the private sector, and in his endeavors has established many friendships, including with many blacks such as Martin Luther King III, Don King, Mike Tyson, and ... Kanye West. One of the key failures in the effort to stop Trump's rise was the goal of trying to portray him as a racist. Since most politicians depend on external financing for survival, Republican outreach efforts to traditionally Democrat constituencies are usually short-lived and bearing little fruit. Trump, however, did not depend upon external financing and had pre-existing relationships with many black Americans. So in spite of vitriolic attempts to paint Trump as racist, his well-known long-term relationships made the attacks ring untrue to enough voters that he was able to succeed politically where other politicians had failed.

Trump's push to address minority unemployment, among other things, has increased his approval among black voters--something that must be truly frightening for the Democrats. Why? The Democratic party has depends upon nearly 90% of black voters casting ballots for the Democrats. If that changes, even by 10-15%, their future viability as a party is in question.

Enter the latest media spectacle: Kanye West met with Trump at the White House with media present. Kanye went on one of his patented stream-of-consciousness rambles about politics--totally unscripted. He said some things that has the Democratic party in a panic. The media has jumped in and, in typical fashion, avoided discussing the substance of West's remarks and instead decided to attack his character.

Democrats and the liberal media are afraid of Kanye West. What else explains their behavior?
CNN’s coverage was particularly hysterical, alarming and insulting. Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.) went so far as to question West’s sanity for meeting with the president. “I felt like I was sitting in on a psychiatrist visit and a commercial for Donald Trump,” she said. Eager to pile on, CNN host Don Lemon ranted against West on Thursday, saying he put on a “minstrel show” for the president, in essence questioning the legitimacy of West’s blackness. Even before West’s Oval Office meeting, CNN commentator Tara Setmayer said, “He’s the token Negro of the Trump administration.” Another CNN commentator, Bakari Sellers, in an apparently botched and distasteful reference to a decades-old Chris Rock bit, said, “Kanye West is what happens when Negros don’t read.” It is startling that they would choose to use such insulting words and innuendo that I thought had been purged from decent company. But perhaps decent company doesn’t include Democrats or a lot of broadcast journalism anymore. Here we are.

I'm pretty sure Trump is timing all of this to the elections. The conspiracy between the Democrats and media is such that they operate on a script or narrative in reaction to events. Sometimes this has led to embarrassing media conclusions, like talking about global warming when Tsunamis occur, etc. However, the Democrats do not have a political message in this election season, so the politics of personal destruction is all they have. This means that Trump may have set them up to get the Democrats to attack blacks.

Ed Rogers wrote:CNN’s coverage was particularly hysterical, alarming and insulting. Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.) went so far as to question West’s sanity for meeting with the president. “I felt like I was sitting in on a psychiatrist visit and a commercial for Donald Trump,” she said. Eager to pile on, CNN host Don Lemon ranted against West on Thursday, saying he put on a “minstrel show” for the president, in essence questioning the legitimacy of West’s blackness. Even before West’s Oval Office meeting, CNN commentator Tara Setmayer said, “He’s the token Negro of the Trump administration.” Another CNN commentator, Bakari Sellers, in an apparently botched and distasteful reference to a decades-old Chris Rock bit, said, “Kanye West is what happens when Negros don’t read.” It is startling that they would choose to use such insulting words and innuendo that I thought had been purged from decent company. But perhaps decent company doesn’t include Democrats or a lot of broadcast journalism anymore. Here we are.

Exactly. If any Republican were ever to utter such words, they would be decried as racist in the most vociferous and vituperative manner. Rogers also noted why Trump was able to pull this off.

Ed Rogers wrote:As wild as it may seem, the fact that Trump has developed a cult of celebrity allows him to try things other Republican presidents never could. With West in tow, Trump could walk into the most impoverished neighborhoods in the country and ask a simple question that would push many Democrats and members of the traditional African American leadership out of their comfort zone. I can see Trump arriving in the most blighted parts of Baltimore or Chicago and saying to the young people there: “Who do you think wants you to have a shot at getting rich, me or Bernie Sanders? Me or Elizabeth Warren? Me or Nancy Pelosi?” The honest answer would be obvious: Trump.

If the black vote in the US fractures and the Democrats lose support, it will be as politically significant in the United States as the fall of the Berlin Wall was in Europe.

Kanye West’s White House Monologue Flirted with the Language of the Men’s-Rights Movement
West’s ten-minute monologue darted chaotically from allusions to Sigmund Freud and Nikola Tesla to claims that he had been misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder. But one theme he kept returning to, during the tirade and in response to journalists’ questions, was that of the disempowered black man, revived and ready to vanquish the enervating effects of women’s influence. He talked about not having “a lot of male energy” in his childhood home or in his adult one, and feeling that Hillary Clinton’s “I’m With Her” campaign alienated him “as a guy who didn’t get to see my dad all the time.” West said, positively gleaming, that he loved the maga hat because it made him feel like Superman. “You made a Superman cape for me,” he said to Trump, who sat across from him, looking stunned yet satisfied.

Trump supporters tend to be devout. This has to be scarring the shit out of the Democratic party.

Democrats' 'Kanye Derangement Syndrome' Explodes
It's not at all accidental that the unhinged behavior of these progressives, confronting Republicans in restaurants and so forth, is growing at the same time as Kanye is getting huge publicity for his apostasy. These white progressives and their black semblables like Maxine and the Rev Al are the most old-fashioned, conformist people around. Avant-garde in 1967, they are now fogeys visiting their cliché-ridden, passé nonsense on new generations.

This makes the thoroughly modern Kanye especially threatening. Wasn't being cool supposed to mean being a Democrat? Sorry, these things change. They always have. "There's nothing so old as the avant-garde" is a cliché for a reason.

To win, Trump first had to pin-prick the Republican establishment's balloon; then, Hillary Clinton's. Now he's doing it to the Democratic party establishment.

Why Kanye West’s Political Stand Matters More Than Taylor Swift’s

Don Lemon Slams Kanye’s Oval Office ‘Minstrel Show,’ Says Rapper’s Mom ‘Rolling Over in Her Grave’
Of course, the "white people" in that room that Don Lemon lamented were mostly left wing media.

It's an interesting event. Since this is programmatic, the right can illustrate what will happen before it happens. So now they are doing this stuff to illustrate who the left really is.

The Mob Attacks Kanye West
Rush Limbaugh wrote:I just want you to listen to how they’re describing Kanye West. You know, on the one hand they go out and embrace Taylor Swift even though she’s “white privilege,” and they abandon Kanye. And it’s… They want you to believe they love women and support women and African-Americans. But you stray off the reservation and then your gender and your race have nothing to do with what the Democrats think of you. So here is black liberal Drive-Bys attacking Kanye West as “token Negro,” as a “minstrel show,” as a “prop,” as “mentally ill,” as a “ventriloquist dummy for white supremacists.”


If 35% of blacks vote for Republicans or merely don't vote for Democrats, the Democrats are in for a big shock in November.
#14953368
foxdemon wrote:Not much interest in this thread from the resident pro establishment liberal left on this forum.

Nope, it is just really stupid and any comments would be a waste of time. It is like the ultimate "I have black friends so..." So have fun with the consummate genius Ye.
#14953395
Zagadka wrote:Nope, it is just really stupid and any comments would be a waste of time. It is like the ultimate "I have black friends so..." So have fun with the consummate genius Ye.


I don’t think you really support the democrat establishment, do you?

What matters here is the Democrats are losing control. They usual attempts at enforcing obedience are failing. At this rate we might not see another democrat president until the 2030’s.


Here’s a video by a lady who speaks a lot of sense and sums up the democrat/legacy media’s response to Kayne perfectly.

#14953455
Torus34 wrote:I'm not sure why the spectacle of a sycophant and his inamorato should 'rattle' anyone in this relatively sophisticated age. We should be inured to such goings-on by now.


This is what we tell ourselves to hide the same self righteous condescension that has plagued humans since we joined together in small tribes. There is nothing ‘sophisticated’ about us socially and politically. Just the latest self deceptive belief we know some truth others must be forced to obey.
#14953478
Sir, thank you for taking time to comment. I'm not sure you hold as a tenet that others must be 'forced to obey' truth. Can we find common ground in the possibility that some can be persuaded that truth is truth through the medium of logical exposition? [And yes, I admit to veering off the highway onto Epistemology Lane.]
#14953486
Torus34 wrote:Sir, thank you for taking time to comment. I'm not sure you hold as a tenet that others must be 'forced to obey' truth. Can we find common ground in the possibility that some can be persuaded that truth is truth through the medium of logical exposition? [And yes, I admit to veering off the highway onto Epistemology Lane.]


I am saying the proponents of ‘truth’ ultimately resort to coercion. They are never satisfied with persuasion. How many ideologies believe they should be limited to a specific group? How many see no need to aggressively proselytize their neighboring communities? How many believe those with opposing beliefs should be left alone?
Do you see tolerance from the left or right? I don’t.
I believe I should be left alone in a community of fellow believers to live based upon my self deceptive truths and I should allow you to do the same. I see no need to convince people in other communities of my truth. If there is a truth, it will arise on its own. Trying to force it on others, only prolongs the time until it is recognized.
You see, we are both right. There is no need to argue about it. Just let people believe what they want. I do limit this to the community rather than the individual, because the community is necessary for modern civilization.
#14953528
One Degree: Nicely stated, Sir. I see now that by truth you were writing of the truth as seen through the lens of ideology rather than truth as an absolute of the Earth orbits around the Sun variety. I agree that ideologies have rarely been able to steer clear of attempting to convert infidels. A very few have resisted, but they are rather thin on the ground.

We see it clearly in the two American political ideologies today and also in the American attempts to impose 'democracy' here and there around the world. The Communists had their turn just a while back, as do some sectors of Islamic fundamentalism today. It it exactly that combination of ideology, party and American tribalism that, I believe, poses an existential threat to American democracy as we know it today. I've commented on this in a not too modest proposal in this section of this forum.

Regards, and the best to you and yours. I promise not to try to convert you to my own particular intellectual warp, secular humanism.
#14953551
Torus34 wrote:I'm not sure why the spectacle of a sycophant and his inamorato should 'rattle' anyone in this relatively sophisticated age. We should be inured to such goings-on by now.

It's not just that Trump's support is growing among black voters, his numbers among Hispanics are much better than they were in 2016. They are at George W. Bush levels, and Trump doesn't even speak Spanish and was trashed endlessly by the media as one who hates Hispanics. It's reasonable to characterize West a sycophant if he had no accomplishments of his own, and were merely a hanger-on of sorts. Yet, he's a successful business man. He and Trump have had a long-term friendship. Additionally, West's wife was behind a pardon that is leading to a push for federal sentencing reform--something that is near and dear to black voters, and which Obama did nothing about, and indeed Jeff Sessions opposes. That gives Trump "street cred" in the black community.
#14953559
blackjack21: Sir, we'll have at least a partial confirmation or denial of your support statements 'round 'bout November 8th or so.

Regards.

PS: Ever notice the very American link between wealth and 'goodness'? There are, at last check, no Save-A-Soul missions on Park Avenue. ;-)
Last edited by Torus34 on 15 Oct 2018 12:02, edited 1 time in total.
#14953643
Torus34 wrote:blackjack21: Sir, we'll have at least a partial confirmation or denial of your support statements 'round 'bout November 8th or so.

Regards.

Whether it materializes in a Republican victory remains to be seen, obviously. It's not November, yet. However, the Democrats are freaking out over the Trump/West meeting.

Wake up, Kanye West
The Oval Office has historically served as a hallowed space where presidents deliberated with world leaders and authorized resolutions on national matters, that was not the case Thursday afternoon.

Rather than address timely affairs, such as the tragic disappearance of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi or Hurricane Michael recovery efforts, the Oval Office was relegated to a platform for misguided celebrity bluster courtesy of Kanye West.

What was scheduled to be a conversation on critical issues affecting communities of color immediately turned into an incoherent rant laced with profanity and damaging stereotypes about black Americans. The same celebrity who once proclaimed on live television that a sitting president did not care about black people chose to embrace Donald Trump, a president whose actions and policies prove time and again that he actually does not care for black people.

Maybe you see this ongoing freak-out over Kanye West as immaterial. However, a loss of even 10% of the black vote could spell electoral doom for the Democrats. Just as I no longer take charges of racism seriously, it has to be wearing thin for blacks too. They may finally realize that they are being heavily manipulated. I'm more inclined to think that being the victim of false allegations (Kavanaugh) resonates with black voters more than self-serving 30-year old allegations of rape. Just as I routinely presume celebrity black men charged with crimes innocent, it may be that blacks are beginning to do the same with others charged by the Democrats.

Racism might be an invisible wall to Kanye West, but I can guarantee that communities of color that are forced to deal with the painful reality of this administration would beg to differ.

Black unemployment plummeted to the lowest levels in history under Trump. Obama can try to take credit for it, but Obama never promised this to black people. Yet, Trump did--even when he was opposed by many black politicians, and when many said would never happen. Yet, it has happened.

Kanye West, Donald Trump, and the Truth About Chicago
The New Yorker wrote:Selfless service is no longer the most esteemed virtue of democracy; celebrity is. It’s for this reason that the image of a maga-hatted Kanye West, seated, on Thursday, in front of the Resolute Desk and blacksplaining the evils of the Democratic Party, while Trump nodded along, felt less surreal than it should have. Rather, it seemed a logical turn of events in a cosmos capable of granting Donald Trump three hundred and four votes in the Electoral College. Surrealism only works when there is a stable reference for reality.

The image of a celebrity black person who isn't in love with the Democrats is something the media would want to suppress, but they can't. So they have to spin.

The New Yorker wrote:As part of a ten-minute logorrhea jaunt in the Oval Office, West oddly admitted that he saw Trump as a reference point for his own masculinity, and that he derived superpowers from his red Make America Great Again hat.

It's not that odd when the Democratic party has spent the last 4 years trashing men--first, in an effort to get Hillary Clinton elected, and after her electoral failure to lament the fact that the country preferred a man with no political experience (as well as a black man with no executive experience) to Hillary Clinton.

The New Yorker wrote:To the extent that it matters—and, in the marketplace of spectacle, it does not matter much—West is not a conservative; he’s a contrarian.

This is an insightful point, because my support of Donald Trump is exactly contrarian. I like Trump, because he finds a way to push conservatism while maximally pissing off the Democrats and until recently, the establishment Republicans too.

However, it does not begin and end with black voters. The Democrats dedication to far left causes belies the fact that they are not thinking about the deeper aspects of their own political coalition. For example, black voters tend to be socially conservative. Hispanic voters too. Hispanic voters could prove a weak link for Democrats.

'We’ve got a Latino problem': Dems fret midterm turnout in key House districts
But a critical piece of the Democratic coalition — Latino voters — is lagging behind other groups in its interest in the 2018 campaign, an enthusiasm gap that could tip the scales in key battleground House districts.

This is interesting, because Democrats want to rely on Latinos as reliable Democrats by keeping them impoverished with illegal immigration. The problem? Latinos are almost uniformly Catholic, pro-family and anti-abortion. They cannot be leveraged to oppose someone like Kavanaugh. So they are not passionately angry about his ascension to the Supreme Court. Asians also vote heavily for the Democrats, but they generally don't adopt licentious lifestyles that require elective abortions. It's not to say that they aren't reliably Democrat, but they do not get passionate about the loss of Roe v. Wade, as they don't generally avail themselves of it.

The problem could be particularly acute in California, where Democrats “should absolutely be worried about Latinos,” said Paul Mitchell, a nonpartisan data consultant. Latinos make up one-fifth to two-thirds of the population in seven contested California districts, making them “one of the most important factors for Democratic success,” Mitchell added.

See? Their electoral strategy with illegal aliens may be backfiring badly.

However, as you noted, we will know after the first Tuesday following the first Monday in November.
#14953989
SpecialOlympian wrote:Two braindead narcissists, one with regular dementia and the other with senile dementia, get together and say stupid shit. Liberal establishment shocked!

The issue is important if more black voters turn to Trump and the Republicans and away from the Democrats. Their intelligence level isn't the interesting aspect of the story.

Beren wrote:Well, that's how they mean to impress black voters (Trump) and fans (West). :hmm:

Not all of them will be impressed. To produce a sea change in American politics, they do not need to convert all black voters from Democrat to Republican. Just peeling off another 10% of the vote would be the difference between success and failure in many races. That's why days after you'd think this story would have blown over, they are still talking about it.

Trump’s triumphs explain the left’s over-the-top rants over Kanye
Does Kanye West deserve to be called an Uncle Tom?

Personally, I don't think black voters will change all that much. However, it is interesting to see how frightened the establishment becomes at the prospect of losing even a few votes.
#14953996
SpecialOlympian wrote:Two braindead narcissists, one with extreme senile dementia and the other with senile dementia, get together and say stupid shit.


I'm guessing you meant to say this.

Did Maxine and Pelosi have a joint press conference again???
#14953999
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa ... g-n2511182

An NAACP poll released on Aug. 7 found that Trump's approval rating was at 21 percent. And a survey conducted by the Pew Research Center in June found Trump's approval rating among blacks at 14 percent.

I used to read articles which said that if a Republican ever broke 10% black support it would be the end for the Democrat's electoral coalition. Here the NAACP is saying he's at 21% in August and Pew says 14% in June, both before his recent tete-a-tete with West who is probably the most popular black musical artist right now and someone who has been open about his desire to get into politics. Is it true then that the Democrat's voter coalition is now broken? Tune in next month to find out!

Also, will Kanye run as a Democrat in 2024? It'd be Bernie Sanders all over again :excited:

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