CFO of Huawei arrested in Canada - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14970016
I am surprised no thread has been started on this subject.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/06/huawei-cfo-arrested-gloves-are-now-fully-off-says-eurasia-group.html


Meng Wanzhou has been arrested by Canadian authorities to be extradited to the US to face charges of violating sanctions against Iran.

Huawei is alleged to be a front for Chinese government cyber espionage, comparable to the NSA in the scope of its activities. The arrest of a very high ranking Chinese figure is remarkable. The timing is also remarkable as it compromises Trump’s deal with the big Xi to end the trade war.

This will be a historic event. America and China will continue to escalate their rivalry. Where will this lead?
#14970044
foxdemon wrote:This will be a historic event. America and China will continue to escalate their rivalry. Where will this lead?


In short:
- This will only further isolate China politically (and eventually economic). This is something that the ruling party wants, and it's something I also want.
- I'm sure there's more to the arrest than just Iran violations.
- China violates IP law like crazy. Thus, anything to stick it too them is good in my eyes.


In Long:
I think it would just result in further political (and eventually economic) isolation of China, and further integration of the rest of the world. This won't be a problem for China in the short term, but as the world becomes more complex, it will become a problem down the road. Albeit, MANY MANY MANY years down the road. As China also becomes bigger, they will loose key allies like Russia too.

China is generally an insular culture and wants to isolate technologically (probably in other ways too). I too want them to isolate as well. Thus, anything that accelerates this is good in my eyes.

To me, this is kind of like how they got Al Capone on tax evasion instead of his many other misdeeds. Sort of, kind of, sort of....

Yes, there's politics that go beyond just trade here. However, it's very well known that China and Chinese companies just don't give a shit about IP in US/EU/ROW (ROW = rest of world). I've seen the IP theft with my own eyes many times (I can share a few of those stories if you'd like). Especially while on visits to China (I work in the tech industry). This arrest is just more friction that will further isolate China in terms of trade.

Even though the arrest is not directly tied to IP theft, I welcome it anyway. There are a lot of people that have lost technology (and money) in the EU/US/Latin America because of China's bullshit trade and IP.

Sidenote, this is why I do not think it was good for the UK to brexit. The world needs to integrate more. For this to happen I also need the US to decline some more, and Latin America to raise up. The same would be good about Africa, but it seems like colonialism has really ruined them to the point that i don't know if that' s possible. Also, China is starting to practice it's brand of colonialism there. THe middle east is just a place that should be left alone unless their cultures change dramatically. The wild cards in this future for me are Russia and NK. MOstly RUssia though. NK is just a junk yard dog.
#14970475
Probably this is part of Trump's trade war with China. Huawei is becoming China's Nokia and the arrest will undermine the brand's popularity in North America, from which Apple will benefit. Using Huawei telecoms equipment poses a security risk, according to Trump administration officials. Beijing may be collecting your personal data via Huawei smartphones or trade secrets from its cloud services, which are legitimate concerns.

Huawei is the poster child for China's dynamic tech sector. It has grown phenomenally in recent years, from a small manufacturer of telephone exchange switches, to become a global leader in the tech industry.

While the brand is familiar to many from its mobile phone handsets, Huawei has its finger in many other pies - from cloud services to artificial intelligence.

And despite increasing controversy around whether using Huawei telecoms equipment poses a security risk, the block on its business deals in some countries, and most recently, the arrest in Canada of one of its executives, the company itself has continued on its steady path of global growth.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46480208
#14970501
ThirdTerm wrote:Using Huawei telecoms equipment poses a security risk, according to Trump administration officials


It isn't just the Trump admin. Previous admins have said the same, and the EU agrees. British Telecom recently decided to ban Huawei for it's 5G network.

It's pretty obvious that working with and buy from Chinese companies is a giant risk if you study the tech industry.

BTW, there have been numerous arrests of Chinese Nationals for corporate espionage over the last 10-20 years. The different here is that it's someone high up in a company as opposed to a lowly engineer or something.
#14970517
Albert wrote:Get these rich Chinese bastards out of Canada! They are driving up housing prices to extreme. Even foreign born tax on real estate did not help.

Why? Criminality aside, why do you want rich people to not come to your country and invest in it?
#14970520
This is just more economic terrorism on the part of the west. Such politically motivated bullying won't work, as the global economic sphere of influence has already shifted far to the east. In effect the west is isolating itself from the global economy and the lions share of global economic growth.

It does offer up something useful. It let's us see which countries are still clients/satellites of the US. Canada is core among them. Japan of course, it banned Huawei over fabricated concerns, Australia of course (albeit compromised and in a transitional period, were already an economic colony of China and our biggest party that is set to win the next election is filled with Chinese agents), etc.
#14970649
I'm loving the hypocrisy of gov'ts that spy on everyone by default, order tech companies to hack their own security and insist encryption have a back door so that they can snoop on you whenever they feel like it complaining that Chinese companies may try to do the same even though they can't produce evidence to back up these claims. If they don't want foreign gov'ts to have the hypothetical power to access sensitive data why are they eagerly sharing this data with other "5 eyes" countries?

Clearly, Huawei execs are being held hostage as part of the 5G trade war since the USA gov't wants it's billionaires to monopolise as much of this market as possible.
#14970671
Her teenage son goes to school in Boston while she has avoided the US because she knew she would be arrested. It is a screwed up world where many support and undermine countries simultaneously.
#14970681
Something that may be lost in the echo chamber, Trudeau said that he was aware of the plan to make the arrest, but basically that he wasn't involved and it's outside his purview (independent judiciary stuff)--which is at least plausible.

Trump said he didn't know about it before hand.

John Bolton, who dined with Trump and Xi Jinping on the day of the arrest, however, said in an NPR interview that he did know about it beforehand. (His spokesman later said that Bolton had meant to say that he was aware of it post-Dec. 1, when the arrest was made, and before Dec. 5, when the arrest was made public. I don't buy it, and think Bolton simply gaffed and fucked up the cover story.)

The root of this is the Wikipedia article about the CFO, which is One Degree's source probably. I then followed up by reading several news articles, including the one referenced on the wikipedia page, and several others (google 'John Bolton, Huawei). There was an opinion piece in Bloomberg which infers it's politically motivated (again, an opinion piece, but worth the look). I'd reference it, but my VPN isn't working.
#14970683
Crantag wrote:Something that may be lost in the echo chamber, Trudeau said that he was aware of the plan to make the arrest, but basically that he wasn't involved and it's outside his purview (independent judiciary stuff)--which is at least plausible.

Trump said he didn't know about it before hand.

John Bolton, who dined with Trump and Xi Jinping on the day of the arrest, however, said in an NPR interview that he did know about it beforehand. (His spokesman later said that Bolton had meant to say that he was aware of it post-Dec. 1, when the arrest was made, and before Dec. 5, when the arrest was made public. I don't buy it, and think Bolton simply gaffed and fucked up the cover story.)

The root of this is the Wikipedia article about the CFO, which is One Degree's source probably. I then followed up by reading several news articles, including the one referenced on the wikipedia page, and several others (google 'John Bolton, Huawei). There was an opinion piece in Bloomberg which infers it's politically motivated (again, an opinion piece, but worth the look). I'd reference it, but my VPN isn't working.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meng-wanzh ... 018-12-08/
My only source was this CBS article.
#14970686
What is the deal with the liberals and the Chinese? China hacks the Office of Personnel Management and plants a spy on the staff of the ranking member of the Senate intel committee and the liberals don't say a thing. They have been hyping the Russia threat for years now just because Russia half repelled a globalist incursion into its own front yard meanwhile the Chicoms are engaging in real hostilities and the liberals are all going to the mattresses to defend Chinese interests from the Trump crew. What a big fake retarded charade it all is. It's hilarious how many people actually take this shit seriously.
#14970696
This is just Jewish supremacists sending a clear message to China about who runs the US and Canada. China needs to prove that it is willing to obey Zionist commands. The reason the focus has been on Russia not China, is because it has been Russia that has been most threatening Israeli dominance. I don't doubt that Putin initially went into Syria with Zionist backing, while Israel might have been happy with ISIS rule, any unitary Sunni Arab government that had even slight diplomatic legitimacy was worse than Assad from Israel's point of view. But once Putin secured his position he clearly hasn't been dancing sufficiently to Israel's tune.
#14970722
Sivad wrote:What is the deal with the liberals and the Chinese? China hacks the Office of Personnel Management and plants a spy on the staff of the ranking member of the Senate intel committee and the liberals don't say a thing. They have been hyping the Russia threat for years now just because Russia half repelled a globalist incursion into its own front yard meanwhile the Chicoms are engaging in real hostilities and the liberals are all going to the mattresses to defend Chinese interests from the Trump crew. What a big fake retarded charade it all is. It's hilarious how many people actually take this shit seriously.

I don't know if you're talking about me there or what. I live in China. And I'm not a liberal.
#14970726
XogGyux wrote:Why? Criminality aside, why do you want rich people to not come to your country and invest in it?


One really good example of why this can be bad is my hometown of Miami. A lot of the housing is bought up by wealthy people (mainly from Russia & Latin America). A lot of it is bought with dirty money actually (See the Panama papers). Rents have gone up like crazy due to this. At the same time, these wealthy foreigners aren't living in Miami. They aren't spending money in Miami. They aren't starting businesses (i.e. investing) in Miami. This means that the only thing all the money pouring into Miami is doing, is raising the cost of living. It's not creating high quality jobs, it's not helping the unemployment rate, etc. etc. This is bad for the working class.

Generally speaking, rich people drive the cost of housing up. Making it harder for the poor to live. This problem is happening in cities all around the world. There's a version of this playing out in my current city of Austin. There's a tech job boom here in Austin (Austin is considered one of the big tech hubs of the US). Lots of high income earners are moving into this city which is driving rent and property values up. THis makes it harder for the working class to continue living here. There's lots of gentrification going around.

Basically, spending in real estate isn't always good for the local population.
#14970729
One Degree wrote:Her teenage son goes to school in Boston while she has avoided the US because she knew she would be arrested. It is a screwed up world where many support and undermine countries simultaneously.


Very good point. That is humanity itself though. We are all walking paradoxes. These paradoxes in our actions are the result of us humans grappling with self-interest and principles/morals/ethics. They will often conflict, leading to seemingly contradictory behaviors.

This is almost the definition of what it is to be human. :lol:

It's like Thomas Jefferson acknowledged that slavery was a horrible thing. Yet, he didn't really do anything to stop it, since he benefited from it (he believed slavery was bad, and that it would eventually end, but that the US wasn't ready for it to end... some shit like that). We are all this way with various things in life. I would argue, those of us that deny this part of our nature are usually the morons.
#14970741
Rancid wrote:One really good example of why this can be bad is my hometown of Miami. A lot of the housing is bought up by wealthy people (mainly from Russia & Latin America). A lot of it is bought with dirty money actually (See the Panama papers). Rents have gone up like crazy due to this. At the same time, these wealthy foreigners aren't living in Miami. They aren't spending money in Miami. They aren't starting businesses (i.e. investing) in Miami. This means that the only thing all the money pouring into Miami is doing, is raising the cost of living. It's not creating high quality jobs, it's not helping the unemployment rate, etc. etc. This is bad for the working class.

Generally speaking, rich people drive the cost of housing up. Making it harder for the poor to live. This problem is happening in cities all around the world. There's a version of this playing out in my current city of Austin. There's a tech job boom here in Austin (Austin is considered one of the big tech hubs of the US). Lots of high income earners are moving into this city which is driving rent and property values up. THis makes it harder for the working class to continue living here. There's lots of gentrification going around.

Basically, spending in real estate isn't always good for the local population.

Sounds just like Oregon and its invasive humans from California.
#14970763
We should be arresting more top executives at other companies as well.
#14970780
Rancid wrote:One really good example of why this can be bad is my hometown of Miami. A lot of the housing is bought up by wealthy people (mainly from Russia & Latin America). A lot of it is bought with dirty money actually (See the Panama papers). Rents have gone up like crazy due to this. At the same time, these wealthy foreigners aren't living in Miami. They aren't spending money in Miami. They aren't starting businesses (i.e. investing) in Miami. This means that the only thing all the money pouring into Miami is doing, is raising the cost of living. It's not creating high quality jobs, it's not helping the unemployment rate, etc. etc. This is bad for the working class.

Generally speaking, rich people drive the cost of housing up. Making it harder for the poor to live. This problem is happening in cities all around the world. There's a version of this playing out in my current city of Austin. There's a tech job boom here in Austin (Austin is considered one of the big tech hubs of the US). Lots of high income earners are moving into this city which is driving rent and property values up. THis makes it harder for the working class to continue living here. There's lots of gentrification going around.

Basically, spending in real estate isn't always good for the local population.


I am familiar with what you are saying. I have also lived in Miami and I am familiar with Doral which has been welcoming a lot of Venezuelan immigration (from other countries as well but Venezuelan in particular) and although, yes a significant percentage of those properties are empty most of them are not, furthermore this has also driven a large number of businesses to open and the area is currently thriving at the moment.

Let's set aside whether these people obtained their money illegally vs legally for a second because I 100% agree that criminals should be prosecuted and if they are immigrant criminals deported or prosecuted within the US (or whatever country they immigrated to) depending on the situation and crimes committed and where those crimes were committed.

I certainly prefer that that a large portion of these people make the investment in our countries. It is a bit selfish and all but the fact is, this benefit me and I cannot pretend that I prefer someone to spend 3 billions in a skyscraper in Shangai than one in Chicago.

Keep in mind, the vast majorities of these properties are 100% brand new, they were built from scrath. This is not driving prices of existing property, but rather CREATING new ones which happen to be more exensive and perhaps contributing to drive prices of already existing. This is actually not bad at all, if you are a property owener and your $200K home suddently now is worth $400K you just doubled your investment.... If all you wanted was a quiet place to live... you can simply sell off your $400k home, go to the middle of Texas or Alabama or Ohio and buy a nice $200k house in the middle of nowhere and you have an extra $200k to live your retirement in peace.

Let's stop pretending that the anger is because prices are going up and you are getting affected. In most cases the effect is neutral if not slightly positive (because of the increase in business revenues) but what drives most people mad is the idea that someone other than themselves are being successful and making way more money than you are. There is a solution for that, GO TO SCHOOL, LEARN SOMETHING THAT IS WORTH $$$, AND WORK HARD MAKING $$$. It is funny how people love capitalism so much when they think they are on top and hate is so much when they realize they are quite at the bottom.

You fail to recognize that the reason prices go up, is because the desirability of living in those places go up. For instance, in the Miami area like you mentioned, Doral was kind of shitty really in the 1990's but its population has since skyrocketed with a booming business. Rent and house prices have gone up, but this is a reflection of an increase in popularity of the area BECAUSE of the new businesses, employment opportunity, recreational and city-life options that the zone now provides which it did not do so 2 decades ago when it was relatively cheaper. You can go to the middle of Montana, Alabama or North-Dakota and find places that are very cheap to live in if that is what you want.

It seems that the US has become obsessed with not putting effort into improving ourselves but growing increasingly angry when the population in other countries work far harder than we do and succeed more than we do. As a population, we get angry that our top paying jobs are going to Asian, Latin Americans, and Indians but this is a reflection on us and not them. Go to any tech company and you'd be surprized that it is likely that at least 20% are foreign-born people and close to 50% are the first generation from foreign-born immigrants, same deal with universities and research. I have first hand experience in the medical field, about 30% of the new doctors in 2017 for the US were not trained in the US, and 20% of them were actually born outside. Why is it that our country is not training enough people BORN HERE to fullfill our own needs.

I think this is a reflection of the blissful ignorance that the latest waves of "conservative" politicians are stirring up. We have an unprecedented number of people that not only think that education is not important but that they are proud of being uneducated and ignorant. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people that are uneducated. I have a problem with people that are uneducated and are proud of it. Not everyone needs to be an engineer, a teacher, a lawyer or a doctor but if you have a large portion of your youth basically being proud of being ignorant, of never reading a book or even trusting those that did study the subject, we have a problem.
#14970783
Why should I care if Chicago gets a $3 billion skyscraper?
At least you are an honest liberal in saying poorer people should be happy richer people are taking over their neighborhoods. If they don’t like it, they should move to Montana or become a doctor. Lol.
After all, someone is making money and that is all that matters.

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